Damn, so many replies. I don't want to spend 2 hours reading through all this shit. Instead, I'll just post my 2 cents.
Sure, you will sacrifice good academic grades and education if you go out and party, instead of sitting in your room or the library buried inside your books and notes.
But, don't think for one single fucking second that working so hard to get good grades does not come with a sacrifice of its own. You could die tomorrow. You might say, "But college only lasts for a few years, compared to working in a career." Sure, but just how important is that college degree to your career choice? There are many self-made millionaires who never attended a single day of college in their life. Flukes? I somehow doubt it. Attitude wins out over any simple diploma (It's just a piece of paper with your college's stamp of approval over your name.)
There's a huge irony in the idea of having higher education makes life easier down the road. The irony is that life becomes much harder in the present. It's a trade off.
When you spend your whole life working hard, only to end up on a death bed eventually, you're going to ask yourself what all that hard work was for.
Suffice it to say, what do you value? Going out and having a good meaningful time? Or sitting in your room worrying and stressing about grades? The thought of spending hours and hours of doing homework doesn't seem natural to me. Spending so much time converting information from a textbook/website into handwritten text is fucking boring as shit.
People learn by DOING, not by writing about it all day long.
From my point of view, I see white vs asian as minimalism vs elitism. A typical white student will realize that getting a 4.0 GPA gets you the same degree as a 2.5 GPA, and after your first job, your GPA won't even matter anymore. They spend just the amount of time working to get the 2.5 GPA and spend the rest of their time doing things they enjoy. A typical asian will do well just for the sake of doing well. In the asian culture, achieving high standards means a lot, even if nothing comes out of it. That's why a lot of asian parents make their kids practice piano 1-2 hours a day and tell them never to be a musician. It's just the idea of being better for the sake of being better. I suppose high achievements are what fulfills asians, equivalent to partying and drinking for white people.
On November 11 2010 14:01 midgettoes wrote: Now in her interview my friend did not convince the interviewer she had good "people skills" which is deemed very important in the line of work she wanted to pursue. The interviewer told her - paraphrased slightly since this is a second re-telling (ie she told me, I'm telling you) - that she couldn't expect to help her patients or their families, and she would have no way of sympathising with them when delivering news about serious conditions/illness. The interviewer placed this value so highly that she was rejected because of this. Do you know what he recommended she should do to improve this skill? Play team sports.
You Aussies are pretty serious about your team sports. I think this is just cultural bias.
And people make snap judgments about other people on anything!
Wow long article, couldn't finish it all. But yeah interesting. I've lived in toronto and I remember how many asians there were in Toronto, with specific communities (cantonese chinese, japanese, etc.) But I haven't heard of the "only asians go to University of Toronto". Is that an overstatement?
That's why a lot of asian parents make their kids practice piano 1-2 hours a day and tell them never to be a musician. It's just the idea of being better for the sake of being better. I suppose high achievements are what fulfills asians, equivalent to partying and drinking for white people.
Wow this is so true. And sad. I come from an asian family and I totally relate to this. They will support me for playing piano, but then if I were to bring up being a musician, they would literally blow up and go crazy, saying extreme things like "you're going to be poor and work at mcdonalds and you won't be happy". Which is extremely offensive. Who cares if I work at mcdonalds if I enjoy my life? Money is NOT the answer to happiness.
And I would really like to add. If you have indeed been "forced" or pressured into studying music a lot, seriously consider taking it as your career. I myself have chosen to do something I love even if I don't make $50k+ yearly. I regret not having practiced piano more than I could have. If I have then I would seriously be pro by now (barely practice yet almost the same level as what would be "good" at my age). Do what you love in life! ( ok may be starcraft is too extreme )
And in high school it is also quite a nuisance. They don't believe in you having control of your life. They believe they are absolutely correct, that studying 24/7 is the only and best way to go, and that I will "regret" if I don't. Psh, I'll show them... oh wait I can't, I have no control -.- They let you watch TV and use the internet, but no games. How does that make sense? And even then they contradict themselves... my dad sent me a HATE email (i guess it's similar to someone flaming someone) accusing me of being "distracted by games and other activities" and for "joining too many extricurriculars". Ok first of all I can't help being distracted by games, even though I can't play. It's not like a choice... it's similar to being tempted to rape someone. You can't really not be tempted, although you'll most likely choose not to. And it's funny that I join lots of extricurriculars for resume but they discourage it, thinking I'm just joining them to have fun.
Also their reasoning for no games but yes to internet is that games make you addictive and not focus on school. Well, you could say the same, they are more fun and therefore you will have more to look forward too if you have good discipline and it also saves time as it takes less time to be satisfied by playing, for example starcraft, than surfing the internet all day (like now xD).
Sort of rant-ish but wanted to share with how ridiculous asian life can be. The parents' conservatism and closed-minds, that is.
On November 11 2010 14:07 Chairman Ray wrote: From my point of view, I see white vs asian as minimalism vs elitism. A typical white student will realize that getting a 4.0 GPA gets you the same degree as a 2.5 GPA, and after your first job, your GPA won't even matter anymore. They spend just the amount of time working to get the 2.5 GPA and spend the rest of their time doing things they enjoy. A typical asian will do well just for the sake of doing well. In the asian culture, achieving high standards means a lot, even if nothing comes out of it. That's why a lot of asian parents make their kids practice piano 1-2 hours a day and tell them never to be a musician. It's just the idea of being better for the sake of being better. I suppose high achievements are what fulfills asians, equivalent to partying and drinking for white people.
While somewhat true on the GPA thing, GPA definitely matters if you want to do grad school or professional school. Also, many co-op programs when you're in a placement interview they look at your transcript.
On November 11 2010 14:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Wow long article, couldn't finish it all. But yeah interesting. I've lived in toronto and I remember how many asians there were in Toronto, with specific communities (cantonese chinese, japanese, etc.) But I haven't heard of the "only asians go to University of Toronto". Is that an overstatement?
Yes. Toronto has a lot more asians than other schools, but it's still got a huge white population.
On November 11 2010 14:07 Chairman Ray wrote: From my point of view, I see white vs asian as minimalism vs elitism. A typical white student will realize that getting a 4.0 GPA gets you the same degree as a 2.5 GPA, and after your first job, your GPA won't even matter anymore. They spend just the amount of time working to get the 2.5 GPA and spend the rest of their time doing things they enjoy. A typical asian will do well just for the sake of doing well. In the asian culture, achieving high standards means a lot, even if nothing comes out of it. That's why a lot of asian parents make their kids practice piano 1-2 hours a day and tell them never to be a musician. It's just the idea of being better for the sake of being better. I suppose high achievements are what fulfills asians, equivalent to partying and drinking for white people.
While somewhat true on the GPA thing, GPA definitely matters if you want to do grad school or professional school. Also, many co-op programs when you're in a placement interview they look at your transcript.
I think it's sad that people go to school just for the piece of paper. Very few people seem to genuinely want to learn anymore . Or at least, learn academic subjects. When I was in college, I didn't study that much, but I did pay attention in class and understood the material, which led to easy A's. Maybe it's because I actually gave a shit? I spent most of my time reading and learning other subjects on my own outside of class as well... Guess I'm an odd monkey though. Seems like most people are just obsessed with making money or sleeping with people .
In fact, I think that's the big difference between Asian and white culture. It's not minimalism vs elitism. It's money vs sex.
On November 11 2010 13:59 n.DieJokes wrote: Damn, this article stereotypes so hard. Just because I wasn't born with intense Asian parents doesn't mean I party and drink/smoke or drink/smoke/party in place of hard studying. On a side note, I don't really get what it means to act white, isn't being white just the absence of culture, its not like theres a white heritage club of counsel of white engineers or smt; we're just white, we don't wrap are selves in some kind of nationalistic identity
Get outside of a white country sometime and you'll notice how white you really are. What you take for granted, many people in the world would consider bizarre and exotic.
As an American-born Chinese I run into some similar cultural issues, and I was even born in a Chinese household. There's definitely a ton of unique aspects to being white. It's not an absence of culture -_-. The concept of good, evil, Christianity, feminism, racism, the social contract, freedom, inalienable rights etc these are all very Western notions.
Interesting... pretty insular of me but I never thought about it that way
On November 11 2010 13:59 n.DieJokes wrote: Damn, this article stereotypes so hard. Just because I wasn't born with intense Asian parents doesn't mean I party and drink/smoke or drink/smoke/party in place of hard studying. On a side note, I don't really get what it means to act white, isn't being white just the absence of culture, its not like theres a white heritage club of counsel of white engineers or smt; we're just white, we don't wrap are selves in some kind of nationalistic identity
White people who go to majority Asian countries behave surprisingly like Asian people who go to majority white countries. You know, speak their own language, eat their own food, hand out with their little clique of people, listen to their own music, have their own hobbies, follow their own sports.
There's no "absense of culture" in being white, it's just that if you're white and live in America then your culture is the culture being blasted right back at you in the media every day. You're just so used to white being treated as the default that everything else is a variation on you can't even see it.
On November 11 2010 12:59 FuRong wrote: Seriously, I don't see how this is a problem. There will always be a degree of racial segregation (in terms of socialising) at universities, just like in real life. People generally tend to hang out with others who are like them and share the same interests and values, and this isn't going to change.
I dunno about everyone else, but I would be the first in line to sign up for a university that had a reputation for being "too asian". It would certainly be a welcome break from the retarded "hurp durp let's get drunk every weekend and skate by with a C- average" mainstream culture of universities in NZ. I'm white but I can probably count the number of white friends I have on one hand. At uni me and my friends would often complain that university organised events were nothing but drinking and partying. Hell, the biggest student club at AU is the fucking "drinking club", I kid you not. By far the most fun events we attended were organised by the asian clubs or through groups of friends.
Will the percentage of Asians at universities continue to grow? Yes, because in general Asians have a better work ethic and will out-perform their white counterparts academically. Does this mean that the demographics and culture on campus will change? Of course it does. But is this a cause for concern? Hell no, I think it's a good thing if Asians raise the bar a little and create a desirable social alternative to the widely accepted university lifestyle of drinking, partying and not giving a fuck.
If you want people to do something other than drink, party and not give a fuck you have to make university mean something. Right now we have way too many people going to university because university is the new high school, you don't go there because you want or expect to learn something, you go there because it's a line item you're expected to have on your resume if you want to get a job. Why do you need it to get a job? Because everyone else going for the job went to university too, so you don't want to be the one who is thrown in the bin before even getting an interview.
Education isn't about learning, it's an arms race where everyone is trying to one up each other. Seems to me the people have realised this and know that getting that degree at the end is the only point and are at least determined to have a good time doing so (drinking and partying is what a lot of people enjoy, like it or not).
I completely agree with you, but entrance standards and the value of a university education is probably material for another new thread entirely. I don't know that much about entrance standards in Australia, but university entrance in NZ is a joke.
To clarify, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with drinking and partying. If you wanna do that then that's great, more power to you, no-one is stopping you. But at the same time, if you're NOT into that scene then that's cool too. The article in the OP seems to be lamenting the fact that Asians don't contribute anything to university culture because they don't drink and party as much. My point is that they DO socialise and contribute, but just in different ways, and I like the fact that it provides an alternative social scene for non-asians like me who don't really enjoy drinking and clubbing that much.
I also go to U of T, St George and to be honest; I don't really relate well to like Asian fobs.
I'm not gonna lie. If it weren't for the Drama program that I'm in where I can meet and greet people who aren't all Asian, I'd definitely go crazy. I mean, Canada is about diversity but I'm surrounded by Asians lol. That's not diverse to me; that's Too Asian lol.
Seriously though; I don't know what it is but there is definitely some kinda barrier when it comes to extra curricular activities at the University. I can't explain exactly but there's some kinda barrier.
I can't lie; Sometimes I wish I did go to University of Western Ontario or... heck, even Queens or something.
On November 11 2010 14:17 jjun212 wrote: I'm Asian but born and raised in Canada.
I also go to U of T, St George and to be honest; I don't really relate well to like Asian fobs.
I'm not gonna lie. If it weren't for the Drama program that I'm in where I can meet and greet people who aren't all Asian, I'd definitely go crazy. I mean, Canada is about diversity but I'm surrounded by Asians lol. That's not diverse to me; that's Too Asian lol.
Seriously though; I don't know what it is but there is definitely some kinda barrier when it comes to extra curricular activities at the University. I can't explain exactly but there's some kinda barrier.
I can't lie; Sometimes I wish I did go to University of Western Ontario or... heck, even Queens or something.
On November 11 2010 14:01 midgettoes wrote: Now in her interview my friend did not convince the interviewer she had good "people skills" which is deemed very important in the line of work she wanted to pursue. The interviewer told her - paraphrased slightly since this is a second re-telling (ie she told me, I'm telling you) - that she couldn't expect to help her patients or their families, and she would have no way of sympathising with them when delivering news about serious conditions/illness. The interviewer placed this value so highly that she was rejected because of this. Do you know what he recommended she should do to improve this skill? Play team sports.
You Aussies are pretty serious about your team sports. I think this is just cultural bias.
And people make snap judgments about other people on anything!
I think midgettoes has a very good point though. Team sports does help a lot with improving social skills. At least, if I didn't do swimming in high school, right now I wouldn't have the social skills to meet new people without feeling extremely awkward and shy.
On November 11 2010 14:17 jjun212 wrote: I'm Asian but born and raised in Canada.
I also go to U of T, St George and to be honest; I don't really relate well to like Asian fobs.
I'm not gonna lie. If it weren't for the Drama program that I'm in where I can meet and greet people who aren't all Asian, I'd definitely go crazy. I mean, Canada is about diversity but I'm surrounded by Asians lol. That's not diverse to me; that's Too Asian lol.
Seriously though; I don't know what it is but there is definitely some kinda barrier when it comes to extra curricular activities at the University. I can't explain exactly but there's some kinda barrier.
I can't lie; Sometimes I wish I did go to University of Western Ontario or... heck, even Queens or something.
It's been common knowledge that many selective colleges discriminate against Asians because there are already so many in attendance. As long as it's a private college, and most selective colleges are, they really have the right to shape their university. But what is misleading is that colleges aren't trying to make colleges more "white". They want greater cultural diversity; they don't want too many students of any race, be it Asian or white. This is certainly a reasonable view for any college because diversity contributes to intellectual growth; different cultures naturally approach things differently and having different viewpoints available is always beneficial. .
I really like the fact that admission in Canada is mostly merit-based; it's almost impossible to get into a good school in the States if you are Asian-American.
Also, UT got nothing on UW in terms of "Asian"-ness... lol...
Meh.. same with UBC. In fact, UBC has been dubbed University of Billions Chinese but obviously the reason why UBC/UofT have such a large Asian population is due to these University being well-known internationally and excel in certain faculties.
Pardon my stereotype but as an Asian myself, I observed a general pattern: 1. Asians tend to choose Commerce or Engineering/Science as their first choice. 2. Those who don't make it into their first choice end up in Arts. 3. UBC/UofT are ranked one of the best in Engineering/Commerce in Canada.
To summarize: Most Asian apply to UBC/UofT for their commerce/engineering program. Those who don't make it still end up in UBC/UofT's Arts faculty. Therefore, UBC/UofT is overflowed with Asians.
On November 11 2010 14:29 FishForThought wrote: Meh.. same with UBC. In fact, UBC has been dubbed University of Billions Chinese but obviously the reason why UBC/UofT have such a large Asian population is due to these University being well-known internationally and excel in certain faculties.
Pardon my stereotype but as an Asian myself, I observed a general pattern: 1. Asians tend to choose Commerce or Engineering/Science as their first choice. 2. Those who don't make it into their first choice end up in Arts. 3. UBC/UofT are ranked one of the best in Engineering/Commerce in Canada.
To summarize: Most Asian apply to UBC/UofT for their commerce/engineering program. Those who don't make it still end up in UBC/UofT's Arts faculty. Therefore, UBC/UofT is overflowed with Asians.
The question is "is this a bad thing?" Doing more to promote socialization with non-Asians sounds fine to me. Changing university admissions to de-emphasize academics to increase diversity sounds retarded (unsurprisingly the USA does that).
On November 11 2010 12:30 alan25 wrote: im asian, im not saying all asians are like this but if you notice how an asian immigrant parent treats their kids its pretty abusive, mostly you see this at a very young age, the kids have to yell to get any attention, you're basically emotionally damaged/distant from the beginning, this goes into the stereotype of "blank face asians" its not because asians are born like that, its because a lot of parents are very abusive and to them (the victims), feeling anything (emotions) is very difficult for anyone who has abusive parents.
"ya but i thought all parents know how to raise their kids with love" this isn't true for asian parents (they literally ignore it or forgotten what love is), i wouldn't call them cowards, but its a very a long cycle that has gone on for centuries, hitting/disciplining is just way a of life for asians (at least to poorer less educated which is a majority) to be shitty and unforgiving.
from what i've seen with my younger cousin (he's 4 now), it seems like he doesn't have much of a grounding (a strong emotionally/happy mother/father to look up to) so the child acts very ill tempered which reflects their own parents. So in turn for the child acting in such a bad manner his parents do hit him on occasion, his mother even talks to mine about i'm actually quoting "you need to bring the child indoors so white people don't see you hitting him", from what i've seen its just another case of a new born loving child confused about why the fuck is everyone around him so shitty i.e "unfun". its just fear over love, im sure a lot of people might have the same issues of trusting someone with your emotions.
as time progresses the child either becomes like his parents (distant emotionally, ignorant), or he can stop being like that and say "fuck it, ill run around naked to prove fearlessness like a raised by love white man" =p
This is complete bullshit for one reason - incongruent cultures. If you live in a Western society you get all sorts of conflicting messages from an Asian family versus society at large. Asian culture tells you to study hard and get a well-paying job so you can support a family. Western culture tells you to pursue your individual dreams and damn everybody else.
In a Western country where Asian kids adopt Western values, immigrant Asian parents don't know how to handle their rebelliousness except by the way they were dealt with as unruly children - through means that Westerners would fear for getting child services called on them. In the end it only serves to reinforce the image of strict, uncaring, abusive Asian parents, and creates a tension between being filial and "being yourself."
The funny thing is that in an Asian country, parents treat their kids this way ALL the time - and guess what? They end up pretty well-adjusted, because there wasn't at least as much incongruency between parental values and societal values. They laugh about the times they were smacked around for being mischievous children WITH their parents.
So no, I don't think Asian parents are unloving cruel disciplinarians. It's just inherent of being an immigrant family that creates these problems.
ya child abuse is something to laugh about.
well adjusted? china has the highest crime rate of adults stabbing little pre schoolers, china is in a horrible state, there's a growing rate of child abduction and organ stealing, why? because abusive shitty hivemind mentality of "lets make more babies to live out an entire lifetime of poverty because i would be ruled as an outcast if i rebel"
you're pretty uninformed dude, you should probably stop posting
That like rarely happens anyways and they still have tons of fun in school...
High schools in Indian teach Integration in their last years, and then they go on to take Diffy Q and Multivariable, LA, Topology, QM,...
EPT
)
. Or at least, learn academic subjects. When I was in college, I didn't study that much, but I did pay attention in class and understood the material, which led to easy A's. Maybe it's because I actually gave a shit? I spent most of my time reading and learning other subjects on my own outside of class as well... Guess I'm an odd monkey though. Seems like most people are just obsessed with making money or sleeping with people 
