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On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction?
Where's the bias? Funny you should say that because I referenced a number of Israeli government sites.
Here are the sources:
"Anti-Israeli Terrorism, 2006: Data, Analysis and Trends." terrorism-info.org.il. Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage, March 2007. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/terrorism_2006e.pdf>.
Chehata, Hanan, and Samira Quraishy. "Isn't It Time for America to Re-evaluate it's "Special Relationship" with Israel?." Middle East Monitor. Al-Jezera, 2010. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/downloads/reports/isnt-it-time-for-america-to-re-evaluate-its-special-relationship-with-israel.pdf>.
Elwart, Steve. "The Middle East in the Crosshairs." Koinonia House. N.p., 2010. Web. 5 May 2010. <http://www.khouse.org/articles/2008/894>.
"ISRAEL 1991 TO PRESENT US-ISRAEL SUPPORT." Palestine Facts. PalestineFacts.org, 2010. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm>.
Isseroff, Ami. "Israel and Palestine: A Brief History - Part I." Mid East Web. Mid East Web, June 10, 2009. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm>.
Isseroff, Ami. "Six Day War." Zionism-Israel. N.p., n.d. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/6daywar.htm>.
Koutsoukis, Jason. "Israel fears US will withdraw support in UN." The Age. Fairfax Digital, March 30, 2010. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.theage.com.au/world/israel-fears-us-will-withdraw-support-in-un-20100329-r87u.html>.
Pagewise, . "The modern state of Israel." essortment. Demand Media Network, 2002. Web. 6 May 2010. <http://www.essortment.com/all/israelmodern_riaz.htm>.
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On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty.
It makes me sick to believe I live in the same country as you. I hope and pray you someday see how disgusting your thoughts are.
I will no longer post in this thread because it's clear there is no point if this is the mindset of some posters.
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On August 27 2010 04:27 SPYTE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. It makes me sick to believe I live in the same country as you. I hope and pray you someday see how disgusting your thoughts are. I will no longer post in this thread because it's clear there is no point if this is the mindset of some posters.
Where have I said anything wrong? It's the truth. The Arab world is being held back by the fundamental tenets of Islam. If the Arabs did not have oil, the Middle East wouldn't be too much better than sub saharan africa.
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On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:
The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty.
Are you shitting me? While Christians were hacking off limbs to get rid of cysts in Europe, the Muslims contributed these:
- Common currency
- Cash crops
- Widespread sugar production
- Water turbines
- Ethanol
- Water purification
- Carboxylic acids
- Coffee
- Restaurants
- Petrol
- Petroleum industry
- Kerosene
- Surveying instruments
- Waste management
- Toothpaste
- Soap bars
- Deodorant
- Colleges and universities
- Observatories
- Medical school
- Public hospitals
- Fountain pen
- Gas masks
- Cough medicine
- Seizure medicine
- Topical ointments
- Band-aids
- Cataract surgery
- Anaesthesia
- Fireproofing on clothing
- Potassium nitrate
- Magnifying glass
- Alarm clocks
- Algebra
- Graph paper
- Guitars
- Scientific/medical peer reviews
- Market economy
But you know, I'm sure you use none of this stuff and it is all unimportant.
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On August 27 2010 04:21 Robstickle wrote:
Mosque at Ground Zero, Islamic Community Center several blocks away from Ground Zero? Basically the same thing right?
Pretty much, it's 2 blocks away. It's close as they could get it. Location was chosen because a piece of WTC wreckage hit that specific building.
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On August 27 2010 04:35 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:21 Robstickle wrote:
Mosque at Ground Zero, Islamic Community Center several blocks away from Ground Zero? Basically the same thing right? Pretty much, it's 2 blocks away. It's close as they could get it. Location was chosen because a piece of WTC wreckage hit that specific building.
I take it you're just going to ignore the fact that my "biased Muslim sources" were largely comprised of Israeli and American authors then?
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On August 27 2010 04:34 Uncle Leo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:
The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty.
Are you shitting me? While Christians were hacking off limbs to get rid of cysts in Europe, the Muslims contributed these: - Common currency - Cash crops - Widespread sugar production - Water turbines - Ethanol - Water purification - Carboxylic acids - Coffee - Restaurants - Petrol - Petroleum industry - Kerosene - Surveying instruments - Waste management - Toothpaste - Soap bars - Deodorant - Colleges and universities - Observatories - Medical school - Public hospitals - Fountain pen - Gas masks - Cough medicine - Seizure medicine - Topical ointments - Band-aids - Cataract surgery - Anaesthesia - Fireproofing on clothing - Potassium nitrate - Magnifying glass - Alarm clocks - Algebra - Graph paper - Guitars - Scientific/medical peer reviews - Market economy But you know, I'm sure you use none of this stuff and it is all unimportant.
And what has Islam contributed in the last 500 years?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance - 100x greater than the "Islamic golden age"
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On August 27 2010 04:37 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:35 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:21 Robstickle wrote:
Mosque at Ground Zero, Islamic Community Center several blocks away from Ground Zero? Basically the same thing right? Pretty much, it's 2 blocks away. It's close as they could get it. Location was chosen because a piece of WTC wreckage hit that specific building. I take it you're just going to ignore the fact that my "biased Muslim sources" were largely comprised of Israeli and American authors then?
Your sources don't fit the biased text which you type. Muslim bias is laughable, it's funny how defensive you get. Post some web links, or did you type that juvenile text yourself.
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On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty.
lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations.
kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot
of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement.
who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd.
i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam
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On August 27 2010 04:38 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:37 Offhand wrote:On August 27 2010 04:35 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:21 Robstickle wrote:
Mosque at Ground Zero, Islamic Community Center several blocks away from Ground Zero? Basically the same thing right? Pretty much, it's 2 blocks away. It's close as they could get it. Location was chosen because a piece of WTC wreckage hit that specific building. I take it you're just going to ignore the fact that my "biased Muslim sources" were largely comprised of Israeli and American authors then? Your sources don't fit the biased text which you type. Muslim bias is laughable, it's funny how defensive you get. Post some web links, or did you type that juvenile text yourself.
Yes, they do. Historical sites sure are a lot more credible then wikipedia and youtube.
+ Show Spoiler +"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
— Christopher Hitchens
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On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam
Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India.
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Muslim bias is laughable, it's funny how defensive you get. Post some web links, or did you type that juvenile text yourself.
Yeah common, books are so 2000, post some blogs or wikipedia articles instead
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United States12989 Posts
On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India.
They laid the foundation for it, it wasn't just rediscovering lost science. In fact, the Rennasaince was started almost entirely by the rediscovering of Roman/greek science and stuff. Hence Rennaisance meaning 'rebirth"
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On August 27 2010 04:37 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:34 Uncle Leo wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:
The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty.
Are you shitting me? While Christians were hacking off limbs to get rid of cysts in Europe, the Muslims contributed these: - Common currency - Cash crops - Widespread sugar production - Water turbines - Ethanol - Water purification - Carboxylic acids - Coffee - Restaurants - Petrol - Petroleum industry - Kerosene - Surveying instruments - Waste management - Toothpaste - Soap bars - Deodorant - Colleges and universities - Observatories - Medical school - Public hospitals - Fountain pen - Gas masks - Cough medicine - Seizure medicine - Topical ointments - Band-aids - Cataract surgery - Anaesthesia - Fireproofing on clothing - Potassium nitrate - Magnifying glass - Alarm clocks - Algebra - Graph paper - Guitars - Scientific/medical peer reviews - Market economy But you know, I'm sure you use none of this stuff and it is all unimportant. And what has Islam contributed in the last 500 years? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance - 100x greater than the "Islamic golden age"
To the arts, probably. To the sciences, probably not. The Golden Age of Islam contributed more to the medical field than probably any other time period, and most Renaissance technology was based off earlier research from the Islamic Golden Age (Galileo used many of the principles of physics and optics that were researched by Arab scholars). Also, to socio-economic principles DEFINITELY not. The Renaissance was a really shitty time in Europe in terms of social issues. The Islamic Golden Age actually probably could have kept on going if it weren't for constant invasion (Turks, Christians, Mongols)
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On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction?
yeah because you're totally not biased.
"What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years?"
"Geert Wilders is a hero."
"This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51" (regarding the stabbing of that poor cab driver lol.)
Either you're a militant jew or you're just one of those people forming opinions based on blogs portraying regular muslims as the biggest threat the world has ever seen. Either way I think you're a fucking idiot and I'm glad your kind has very little say in your country. I'm probably getting banned for this and rightly so so what ever gl hf guy.
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On August 27 2010 03:50 warrior6 wrote:hahaha oh brother...its more along the lines of stop so we can continue to dominate every point of your lives while we kick you out of your homes to move our own extremist citizens in and regulate every little thing that goes in and out of your land while we divide your community and territories with more settlements and put giant walls around your communities with snipers who open fire on people who look even a little suspicious....stop or we will bend the world's greatest superpower to our will and fuck you up. we are afterall above all laws. we will kill 3000 people for every 10 that you manage to kill with your pop bottle rockets in addition, israel has broken ceasefires on numerous occasions
Well next time your life is being dominated at every point you shouldn't be surprised when you get reprimanded for your actions. I'm not saying "oh don't rebel against the man" I'm saying these these have repercussions and if you disagree you're an idiot.
And maybe, you shouldn't attack a military super power with bottle rockets if they warn you they'll kill 3000 for every 10. and once again, if you do, don't act all surprised.
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On August 27 2010 04:50 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction? yeah because you're totally not biased. "What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years?" "Geert Wilders is a hero." "This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51" (regarding the stabbing on that poor cab driver lol.) Either you're a militant jew or you're just one of those people forming opinions based on blogs portraying regular muslims as the biggest threat the world has ever seen. Either way I think you're a fucking idiot and I'm glad your kind has very little say in your country. I'm probably getting banned for this and rightly so so what ever gl hf guy.
yep, im a zionist agent working to sow discord against muslims in the west. Blame it on the jews. mazel tov!
and really, what has islam contributed to the world in the last 500 years? the jews have contributed so much more
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On August 27 2010 04:52 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:50 hifriend wrote:On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction? yeah because you're totally not biased. "What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years?" "Geert Wilders is a hero." "This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51" (regarding the stabbing on that poor cab driver lol.) Either you're a militant jew or you're just one of those people forming opinions based on blogs portraying regular muslims as the biggest threat the world has ever seen. Either way I think you're a fucking idiot and I'm glad your kind has very little say in your country. I'm probably getting banned for this and rightly so so what ever gl hf guy. yep, im a zionist agent working to sow discord against muslims in the west. Blame it on the jews. mazel tov! and really, what has islam contributed to the world in the last 500 years? the jews have contributed so much more
it's silly to think pro-israel people aren't lobbying hard for their cause and you are the most persistent retard I've ever come across on this forum.. who knows!
edit: I usually don't get pissed off over silly debates but nothing gets to me like people having learnt absolutely nothing from (recent) history who goes on demonizing groups literally consisting of billions of people. ugh im out.
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On August 27 2010 04:55 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:52 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:50 hifriend wrote:On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction? yeah because you're totally not biased. "What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years?" "Geert Wilders is a hero." "This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51" (regarding the stabbing on that poor cab driver lol.) Either you're a militant jew or you're just one of those people forming opinions based on blogs portraying regular muslims as the biggest threat the world has ever seen. Either way I think you're a fucking idiot and I'm glad your kind has very little say in your country. I'm probably getting banned for this and rightly so so what ever gl hf guy. yep, im a zionist agent working to sow discord against muslims in the west. Blame it on the jews. mazel tov! and really, what has islam contributed to the world in the last 500 years? the jews have contributed so much more it's silly to think pro-israel people aren't lobbying hard for their cause and you are the most persistent retard I've ever come across on this forum.. who knows!
okay, whatever. dont forget to read your quran during ramadan
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This whole thing is rediculous, A. this thread should be changed because it is not a Mosque thats like calling a JCC or a YMCA a temple or church. The fact that this is so hard for Americans to do is insane. Currently in Lebanon a country with that has been bombed to shit by Israel they are tollerent enough to build a temple in downtown beirut, arguably the "ground zero" of their country (but reialistically the whole country is a ground Zero because a lot of it has been destroyed by Israel) but us Americans can't build an Islamic community center two blocks away (more realistically five or so by foot). This is extremely insulting to me as an American.
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EPT
