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On August 27 2010 04:55 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:52 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:50 hifriend wrote:On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction? yeah because you're totally not biased. "What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years?" "Geert Wilders is a hero." "This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51" (regarding the stabbing on that poor cab driver lol.) Either you're a militant jew or you're just one of those people forming opinions based on blogs portraying regular muslims as the biggest threat the world has ever seen. Either way I think you're a fucking idiot and I'm glad your kind has very little say in your country. I'm probably getting banned for this and rightly so so what ever gl hf guy. yep, im a zionist agent working to sow discord against muslims in the west. Blame it on the jews. mazel tov! and really, what has islam contributed to the world in the last 500 years? the jews have contributed so much more it's silly to think pro-israel people aren't lobbying hard for their cause and you are the most persistent retard I've ever come across on this forum.. who knows!
It's good to understand where the "ground zero mosque" noncontroversy comes from though. This thread has backpedaled from "move it further away from ground zero" to "Islam is an evil and worthless religion".
Proving that the whole issue is, in fact, fueled by bigotry.
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On August 27 2010 04:50 Achilles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 03:50 warrior6 wrote:hahaha oh brother...its more along the lines of stop so we can continue to dominate every point of your lives while we kick you out of your homes to move our own extremist citizens in and regulate every little thing that goes in and out of your land while we divide your community and territories with more settlements and put giant walls around your communities with snipers who open fire on people who look even a little suspicious....stop or we will bend the world's greatest superpower to our will and fuck you up. we are afterall above all laws. we will kill 3000 people for every 10 that you manage to kill with your pop bottle rockets in addition, israel has broken ceasefires on numerous occasions Well next time your life is being dominated at every point you shouldn't be surprised when you get reprimanded for your actions. I'm not saying "oh don't rebel against the man" I'm saying these these have repercussions and if you disagree you're an idiot. And maybe, you shouldn't attack a military super power with bottle rockets if they warn you they'll kill 3000 for every 10. and once again, if you do, don't act all surprised.
i don't think anyone is really surprised at what the israelis do..its more shock and discontent that they continually get away with it and have so much influence and power over the world's only superpower who paints THEM as the victims.
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On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India.
begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell...
there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol
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On August 27 2010 04:58 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:55 hifriend wrote:On August 27 2010 04:52 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:50 hifriend wrote:On August 27 2010 04:18 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:15 Offhand wrote:I guess it's time for another history lesson then. Israeli Independence: The day the British Mandate of the area was to expire in 1948, Israeli Jews declared independence and took over the areas of Jordan, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Egypt, Syria, and others attempted a counter-attack, but failed. Over 700 thousand Arabs were displaced as a result of the initial declaration and war. Jewish population in the area more then double in the next decade. In the 50's Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula, but was forced to return the land due to pressure from the UN. This is the last time you will hear "pressure from the UN" in an effective way. Six Day War: Following the annex of most of Palestine, surrounding nations refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Egypt attempted a blockade the Red Sea and put economic pressure on Israel. Israel responded by bombing most of the Egyptian air force. The US backed this decision and supplied arms. From this point forward, Israel has access to significantly better US technology and is immune from UN sanctions due to US influence in the UN. Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula as a result. The first instances of "terrorism" appear around this time. Yom Kippur War: The first act of organized military aggression against Israel, the Yom Kippur war was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria. Attacks were somewhat successful, but were eventually repelled by late October. This is 25 years since Arab-Israeli tensions have been brought to a head. 1977: Israeli government begins heavily encouraging the settling of the West Bank, expelling any remaining Palestinians from the area by force. 1980: Israel annexes Jerusalem, despite being declared an international cit by the UN. UN is powerless to due anything as the US will not vote against Israel. 1982: Israel intervenes in the First Lebanese Civil War, using it as an excuse to bomb PLO strongholds. Israeli troops remain stationed in Lebanon as a buffer as late as 2000. 1987: First Intifada, a people's revolution of Palestinians. This is where you get images of people throwing rocks at Israeli troops. 1993: Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel. The first time Israel recognizes Palestinian rights to land. Israeli settlements continue after the accord regardless. The PLO officially denounces terrorism. 2000: Camp David, fuck all gets accomplished. Second Intifada starts. Construction of walls begin. 2006: Second Lebanese War starts when Hezbollah begins rocket attacks. 2008: Hamas and Israel's ceasefire collapses. The Gaza War lasts three weeks and Israeli attacks last long after another ceasefire is announced. So, um, yeah. "Asking for it" isn't the best term. Unless you mean asking for their houses and land back. Biased Muslim viewpoint. Post sources. Are you sure you want to go in this direction? yeah because you're totally not biased. "What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years?" "Geert Wilders is a hero." "This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51" (regarding the stabbing on that poor cab driver lol.) Either you're a militant jew or you're just one of those people forming opinions based on blogs portraying regular muslims as the biggest threat the world has ever seen. Either way I think you're a fucking idiot and I'm glad your kind has very little say in your country. I'm probably getting banned for this and rightly so so what ever gl hf guy. yep, im a zionist agent working to sow discord against muslims in the west. Blame it on the jews. mazel tov! and really, what has islam contributed to the world in the last 500 years? the jews have contributed so much more it's silly to think pro-israel people aren't lobbying hard for their cause and you are the most persistent retard I've ever come across on this forum.. who knows! It's good to understand where the "ground zero mosque" noncontroversy comes from though. This thread has backpedaled from "move it further away from ground zero" to "Islam is an evil and worthless religion". Proving that the whole issue is, in fact, fueled by bigotry.
Apparently, nobody can criticize Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy
If you're going to criticize Islam, Muslims may even want to kill you.
Lack of criticism is what is holding back the Muslim countries. Many are still stuck in the medieval mindset.
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On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol
what has islam contributed in the 500 years
edit: dont say suicide bombs
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On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs
Sorry I lied, I'm back because I couldn't help myself.
I give you the first suicide bombing:
The Bible Book of Judges recounts the story of the Jewish hero Samson and how he killed himself by bringing down the temple of the Philistines in order to kill three thousand Philistines.
and the second:
In the late 17th century, Qing official Yu Yonghe recorded that injured Dutch soldiers fighting against Koxinga's forces for control of Taiwan in 1661 would use gunpowder to blow up both themselves and their opponents rather than be taken prisoner.[1] However, the Chinese observer may have well confused such suicidal tactics with the standard Dutch military practice of undermining and blowing up positions recently overrun by the enemy which almost cost Koxinga his life during the siege.
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On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs
What kind of reasoning is that? It's like asking what Christianity contributed from 400-900 AD.
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On August 27 2010 04:59 warrior6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:50 Achilles wrote:On August 27 2010 03:50 warrior6 wrote:hahaha oh brother...its more along the lines of stop so we can continue to dominate every point of your lives while we kick you out of your homes to move our own extremist citizens in and regulate every little thing that goes in and out of your land while we divide your community and territories with more settlements and put giant walls around your communities with snipers who open fire on people who look even a little suspicious....stop or we will bend the world's greatest superpower to our will and fuck you up. we are afterall above all laws. we will kill 3000 people for every 10 that you manage to kill with your pop bottle rockets in addition, israel has broken ceasefires on numerous occasions Well next time your life is being dominated at every point you shouldn't be surprised when you get reprimanded for your actions. I'm not saying "oh don't rebel against the man" I'm saying these these have repercussions and if you disagree you're an idiot. And maybe, you shouldn't attack a military super power with bottle rockets if they warn you they'll kill 3000 for every 10. and once again, if you do, don't act all surprised. i don't think anyone is really surprised at what the israelis do..its more shock and discontent that they continually get away with it and have so much influence and power over the world's only superpower who paints THEM as the victims.
Good pt.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On August 27 2010 05:05 thesighter wrote:
Lack of criticism is what is holding back the Muslim countries. Many are still stuck in the medieval mindset.
ARGHHHHHH, SO WHAT!?
A ISLAMIC FOREIGN COUNTRY is different from YOUR OWN COUNTRY
THOSE MUSLIMS OVER THERE are different from THE MUSLIMS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH is distinct from HIS FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
DEFENDING YOUR OWN RIGHTS is separate from SUPPRESSING OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.
Your utter inability to make any distinctions, broad generalizations over the entire religion, and justification of oppression as defending your own rights is what separates your arguments from the arguments against your position.
Fuck. If you are going to be all bigoted and discriminatory, at least be more discriminating when you are at it.
excuse the all caps.
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On August 27 2010 05:23 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:05 thesighter wrote:
Lack of criticism is what is holding back the Muslim countries. Many are still stuck in the medieval mindset. ARGHHHHHH, SO WHAT!? A ISLAMIC FOREIGN COUNTRY is different from YOUR OWN COUNTRY THOSE MUSLIMS OVER THERE are different from THE MUSLIMS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH is distinct from HIS FREEDOM OF RELIGION. DEFENDING YOUR OWN RIGHTS is separate from SUPPRESSING OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS. Your utter inability to make any distinctions, broad generalizations over the entire religion, and justification of oppression as defending your own rights is what separates your arguments from the arguments against your position. Fuck. If you are going to be all bigoted and discriminatory, at least be more discriminating when you are at it. excuse the all caps.
Let it go, theinsighter is obviously an islamaphobe.
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On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs
We could start with the accomplishments of the Ottoman Empire. I assume you'll selectively ignore those parts about them welcoming Jews fleeing from western Europe though.
But just from the Ottomans alone we can attribute:
- Modern religious freedoms
- Sassanid architecture
- Modern Welfare (soups kitchens, bath houses, hospitals)
- The earliest world maps (the most accurate in the 16th century)
- optics (including basic understanding of the speed of light as a constant)
- the earliest steam engine
- mechanical clocks
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On August 27 2010 05:14 SPYTE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:[quote] The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs Sorry I lied, I'm back because I couldn't help myself. I give you the first suicide bombing: The Bible Book of Judges recounts the story of the Jewish hero Samson and how he killed himself by bringing down the temple of the Philistines in order to kill three thousand Philistines. and the second: In the late 17th century, Qing official Yu Yonghe recorded that injured Dutch soldiers fighting against Koxinga's forces for control of Taiwan in 1661 would use gunpowder to blow up both themselves and their opponents rather than be taken prisoner.[1] However, the Chinese observer may have well confused such suicidal tactics with the standard Dutch military practice of undermining and blowing up positions recently overrun by the enemy which almost cost Koxinga his life during the siege.
the jews always gotta one up the muslims. well , at least the muslims learned from the best!
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On August 27 2010 05:27 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:[quote] The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs We could start with the accomplishments of the Ottoman Empire. I assume you'll selectively ignore those parts about them welcoming Jews fleeing from western Europe though. But just from the Ottomans alone we can attribute: - Modern religious freedoms - Sassanid architecture - Modern Welfare (soups kitchens, bath houses, hospitals) - The earliest world maps (the most accurate in the 16th century) - optics (including basic understanding of the speed of light as a constant) - the earliest steam engine - mechanical clocks
lol, pathetic list. you left out the armenian genocide!! oh wait, that never happened.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 27 2010 05:29 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:27 Offhand wrote:On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:
[quote]
What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam...
Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs We could start with the accomplishments of the Ottoman Empire. I assume you'll selectively ignore those parts about them welcoming Jews fleeing from western Europe though. But just from the Ottomans alone we can attribute: - Modern religious freedoms - Sassanid architecture - Modern Welfare (soups kitchens, bath houses, hospitals) - The earliest world maps (the most accurate in the 16th century) - optics (including basic understanding of the speed of light as a constant) - the earliest steam engine - mechanical clocks lol, pathetic list. you left out the armenian genocide!! oh wait, that never happened.
Can you teach me how to change the subject whenever someone answers your questions like that?
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On August 27 2010 05:33 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:29 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:27 Offhand wrote:On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
[quote]
Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs We could start with the accomplishments of the Ottoman Empire. I assume you'll selectively ignore those parts about them welcoming Jews fleeing from western Europe though. But just from the Ottomans alone we can attribute: - Modern religious freedoms - Sassanid architecture - Modern Welfare (soups kitchens, bath houses, hospitals) - The earliest world maps (the most accurate in the 16th century) - optics (including basic understanding of the speed of light as a constant) - the earliest steam engine - mechanical clocks lol, pathetic list. you left out the armenian genocide!! oh wait, that never happened. Can you teach me how to change the subject whenever someone answers your questions like that?
I think I have learned how to do it (even though his is more of a statement than an answer), here is my example:
1) I quote his comment
On August 27 2010 05:29 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:27 Offhand wrote:On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:
[quote]
What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam...
Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs We could start with the accomplishments of the Ottoman Empire. I assume you'll selectively ignore those parts about them welcoming Jews fleeing from western Europe though. But just from the Ottomans alone we can attribute: - Modern religious freedoms - Sassanid architecture - Modern Welfare (soups kitchens, bath houses, hospitals) - The earliest world maps (the most accurate in the 16th century) - optics (including basic understanding of the speed of light as a constant) - the earliest steam engine - mechanical clocks lol, pathetic list. you left out the armenian genocide!! oh wait, that never happened.
2) I say a completely irrational comment that overlooks the overall question of the thread, or the overall understatement of how people relate to their culture/religon:
lol, too bad christians are much better than muslims when they commited the holocaust! Oh wait that was in Europe so it doesn't effect me.
----- end sarcastic comment that pained me to even type -----
In reality, No religion, person, country, culture, sex, or region deserves more hate/sympathy/empathy/arrogance/hypocracy.
We are all just mammals trying to do what we think is best at that time. Yes there is radicals in all aspects of life, but it is insanely cruel and arrogant to comment on the Islamic religion/region as a whole.
All people have helped each other over the centuries and we have grown to be able to live in such a wonderful place, but yet we still have people that will try to disallow "AN ISLAMIC COMMUNITY" for no reason besides pure hate and bigotry. What are people so afraid of in this world? Do you think if that community center is there they will plan their next attack?? REALLY?
The comments you make are just as irrational as the people who actually refuse to let two people marry just because they are the same sex. This world should be free, and it disgusts me that people still wish to limit what others can do when it causes no harm to anyone (and if anything gives a chance to bring a community together).
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United States42966 Posts
I told him to remove himself from the topic because he was ruining any discussion. He refused to do so. I have now removed him. Please could we move away from his failures to construct a coherent argument, we're all agreed he sucked but he's gone now and we can make real posts again.
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On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:On August 26 2010 18:00 Electric.Jesus wrote:
What I always ask myself is why some fucked up nutshots can actively discredit a whole religion?
About 99% of Muslims are peaceful average types. Dunno what the appropriate equivalent to a "joe sixpack" is since they usually do not drink alcohol. Fact is, most of the are law abiding citizens but somehow, the 1% of bad apples has the power to outweigh all that.
The problem is not restrcited to Islam, though. Consider the right wing Israeli setllers whose credo is that all non-jews must be driven from the "holy land" because it says so in the bible.
Consider also evangelical christians who hand out bibles in Iaq and Afghanistan because they think their holy mission is saving the heathen Muslims from eternal suffering by converting them to the true faith.
I recommend to everyone to read How to win a cosmic war by Reza Azlan. It provides intersting background information on today's religious zealots from all three major monoptheistic religions and how they actively work against reigious conflict.
My 2 cents: do not let religious extremists hijack a complete faith (whichever one it may be). The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years?
i thought i already addressed this...but i can tell your question is a loaded one that is aimed to attack islam.
your attacking a civilization right after it has fallen and is trying to rearrange itself (it takes hundreds and hundreds of years), i could ask what has the west done from the year 400-1300 in comparison to the east?
the islamic world became weaker when the west discovered the new world through sheer luck and gained access to a tremendous amount of free land and resources. the west then dominated the whole world including the islamic world. after building upon the ideas and discoveries of the islamic world, the west overtook them in development backed by its massive trade and resource advantage because of its strategic position geographically. the creation of america also marked a historic time when a great power could literally not be invaded...even more so than the british who although could not really be invaded could still be attacked and cut off by naval means. the new muslim countries are also not natural countries. they are territories created by the british where borders were carved so that rival groups and enemies could be in the same territory to keep it weak and easily controlled.
the middle-east flourished at a time when they had access to major markets and trade routes (the silk road). now the west is in this position by dominating the world's oceans.
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On August 27 2010 05:49 SPYTE wrote:
In reality, No religion, person, country, culture, sex, or region deserves more hate/sympathy/empathy/arrogance/hypocracy.
Do you actually believe this? I'll disagree with your statement until the day I die. I think that extreme sociocultural relativism like this is the ultimate form of harmful complacency. Not all things are equal.
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On August 27 2010 05:27 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:06 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 05:01 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:40 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:38 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 04:16 thesighter wrote:On August 27 2010 04:12 warrior6 wrote:On August 27 2010 01:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On August 27 2010 01:15 Sl4ktarN wrote:On August 27 2010 00:54 thesighter wrote:[quote] The issue with this view is that the extremists in Islam are much more vocal and more readily accepted than the extremists in the other religions. Looking at all the countries of the Middle East, nearly every one is a theocracy or secular dictatorship pretending to be a republic/democracy. http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/why-is-the-arab-world-so-backwards/A recent UN development report on the region makes for sobering and very depressing reading: - If one takes out the export of oil, over 20 Arab countries with over 360 million people between then export less products to the world than tiny Belgium with only 10 million people. - Spain’s GDP is larger than the entire Arab world combined. - 360 million Arabs have a smaller manufactoring capacity than 5-million-people Finland. - Greece with just 11 million people translates more books than the entire Arab world. The Arabs have fallen behind in the attainment of knowlegde. More books are translated into Spanish in one year than have been translated into Arabic over the past few centuries. - No a single Arab nation is a established democracy. - Arabs have the highest rate of government revenue as percentage of GDP and highest rates of youth unemployment. - Not a single Arab university ranks in the top 500 compared to several in tiny Israel. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It just proves that living in the middle east is pretty lame, it doesnt have anything to do with Islam... Except the fact that Islam has been there for 1400 years and it shapes and controls ALL life there. Only for a few intellectuals it's possible to escape this, get some info on Iran, probably the most advanced country in ME, culturalwise. Dunno how you could deny a connection between Islam and the fallback of this region. I'm not sure, but since the establishment of Islam, did there come anything good or valuable out of this region, as in philosophical/cultural values or technological advance? nothing really except for maybe advances in astronomy, chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, literature, a better scientific method, The Islamic Golden Age is nothing when compared to the contributions of Western, Indian, or Chinese civilizations. What has Islam contributed to the world in the last several hundred years? Other than misery or poverty. lol at the islamic godlen age being nothing in comparison to other parts of the world's civilizations. kicking a civilization while its down eh? it would be the same as the muslims bagging on the dark ages christian europe. at any point in time a whole civilization will collapse and enter a period of turmoil while it naturally rearranges itself. it would be useful to know that the renaissance used a lot of middle-eastern advances to build on. while the europeans used middle-eastern advances and began to build on them, the middle-eastern countries are now the ones having to do the catching up. europe did not magically catch up to the eastern world in a couple of years...it took hundreds of years and then the discovery of a whole new continent to provide the raw resources and materials to further economic growth and advancement. who would have thought that after commodore perry sailed to japan in 1854 where he discovered a an isolated people that were very lacking in most forms of modernity for hundreds of years would become the world's leading economy by the 1970s. to discount the discoveries and progresses of civilizations based on their position in the world right now is absurd. if we were both middle easterners in the year 1200 and i told you that in about 300 years, the europeans will be the dominating civilization, it would sound absurd as it looked like at the time, the east had every advantage possible. today, your the one bagging on the middle-easterners...the next great civilization might even dwarf the accomplishments of the west...but to say what the west discovered was nothing...would be absurd. i could provide you with dozens of factors as to why the east declined and the west overtook them..none of them would be islam Middle Eastern advances were primarily based off rediscovering and innovating from Greek civilization (the west). Much of the middle eastern advances in sciences/mathematics were based off ideas which came from India. begins to clap...and there is your lesson ladies and gentleman. many advances in civilization are based on the advances of a previous one that fell... there were advances in mesopotamia, egypt and persia (east) that the greeks and romans advanced further. you could theoritically keep going with this...lol what has islam contributed in the 500 years edit: dont say suicide bombs We could start with the accomplishments of the Ottoman Empire. I assume you'll selectively ignore those parts about them welcoming Jews fleeing from western Europe though. But just from the Ottomans alone we can attribute: - Modern religious freedoms - Sassanid architecture - Modern Welfare (soups kitchens, bath houses, hospitals) - The earliest world maps (the most accurate in the 16th century) - optics (including basic understanding of the speed of light as a constant) - the earliest steam engine - mechanical clocks
Also, janissaries. No military model like it at the time. Though it did get too powerful and bloated in the end.
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On August 27 2010 06:08 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 05:49 SPYTE wrote:
In reality, No religion, person, country, culture, sex, or region deserves more hate/sympathy/empathy/arrogance/hypocracy.
Do you actually believe this? I'll disagree with your statement until the day I die. I think that extreme sociocultural relativism like this is the ultimate form of harmful complacency. Not all things are equal.
Well I got caught up into things and I guess I can't say that I believe it is exactly how i put it. Obviously one will have more sympathy/empathy towards the people they know and interact with compared to strangers. Also, it is understandable that you want to hate someone for killing your family.
I am just trying to say that I don't judge people at first glance just because of their "religion, person, country, culture, sex, or region." I simply believe every individual deserves their chance to prove who they are. I just got caught up into things earlier 
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Back to the OP.
Does anyone know if this Muslim community center is allowing anyone in to use their facilities as long as they don't bother people while in prayer? I know that is how most community centers work (yes even muslim ones, even though I believe people are primarily muslim).
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EPT
