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On June 03 2010 11:55 Euphoric wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 07:16 xDaunt wrote:On June 03 2010 07:04 blomsterjohn wrote:If Bosnians shelled Croatian cities daily with rockets, I think you might feel a little bit different about the idea of blockades. Wow, this is so misleading im really astonished. If you see these socalled "daily rockets" as terrorism, what then has Israel done consistently in the past? Phosphorus, UN school, Ambulances, Human-shields, settlements, UN observers, the unleeching of christian fundamentalists on refugee camps, checkpoints etc etc etc etc etc. According to your standards then, Israel would be the most looney terroriststate ever. Proportions do matter you know, look up them numbers... I'm perfectly aware of what the numbers are: Israelis have killed more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. However, here's the inconvenient truth that Palestinian sympathizers always ignore: the Israelis want peaceful, coexisting states and the Palestinians want Israel wiped off of the map. As I said above, there will never be peace because too many Arab/Palestinian people will not tolerate the existence of Israel. Sure, Israel has done plenty of bad things in the past to engender this hatred. No one will deny that. However, for the past twenty years (maybe more, I'd have to go back check dates), Israel has tried very hard to come to peaceful terms with the Palestinians. However, the Palestinians won't have any of it. Go look up all of the deals that Arafat turned down. Go look at the stated policy of Hamas vis a vis Israel. Hell, why do you think Gaza and the West Bank are Palestinian territories now? Israel gave them up hoping that there would be peace.If you're going to talk about body counts, then you better at least understand the history behind them. You're terrible. Every ten years, the size of palestine on the map gets smaller. You really think that's their fault? 70 years ago there was no Israel. It was palestine. Israel's existance is a remnant of british colonialism and the only reason it's still around is because the people in control of western nations want it to be there. Do you really think the dirty, poor, and sick palestinians who no longer have a home are really opposed to reasonable peace? Israel's existance is illegal. The only travesty for Israel is that it will be the children of the original zionists that pay for the crimes that have been committed, and not the original zionists themselves. More towards your point, the only peace plans the palestinians have turned down are complete mockeries of a legitimate agreement. The majority of the international community knows that israel is the problem. Unfortunately, that majority are not capable of standing up to the USA, who conveniantly vetoe almost every UN movement against Israel when almost everyone else supports it.
So am I correct in assuming that you, like the Palestinians, will not tolerate the existence of Israel?
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Ertach blockage, south of Tul Karem, Palestinian female workers on their way for work in Israel, 03:50. The terminal opens at 4am. Top: monday 9.5.10, bottom: monday 7.4.10.
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‘Azzun ‘Atma is a village enclosed between the settlements Oranit, Elkana and Sha’arei Tikva and the separation wall. The village is surrounded by a fence, traffic to and from it requires going through two checkpoints. For any practical purposes, it has become a prison compound. Any communication between the villagers and the external world requires the permission of soldiers and through checkpoints (pictured: the checkpoint on the western end of the village). Ten families that were left on the other side of the separation wall have to go through the checkpoint on their way to the village grocery store. They are restricted with a ration of goods they can buy (see here), for fear that they will use them for trade in Israel proper, west of the Green Line. No terrorist actions ever came out of this village. And all this is only in order to leave those three settlements on the western side of the wall.
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On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:Neither of these statements have any merit. Both sets of populaces have come to agreement on some type of co-existence, politicians and land settlement aren't there yet.
I disagree. Yes, there are zealots in both Israel and Palestine who won't tolerate a two-state solution. However, with regards to the Israelis, those zealots are much more of a minority. Why, do you ask? Simple: Israeli governments have been trying to work out a real two-state solution for decades. The Palestinians? Their governments have largely given Israel the finger for decades. Right now, the Palestinian government in Gaza is Hamas. Hamas has said that they will not tolerate the existence of Israel. So please, don't pretend that there's no difference between the Israelis and Palestinians on desiring peace or tolerating a two-state solution.
On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:
This line right here shows me you're uneducated on the issue and have just bought the line fed by mainstream American media, which includes both 'conservative' and 'liberal' sources. It's like the "ancient hatreds" crap they pulled during the Bosnian war.
What part of Hamas's stated "we will not tolerate the existence of Israel" policy do you not understand? Yes, most of the national governments of the Middle Eastern states publicly recognize and accept Israel's existence, but there are a lot of radical groups and LARGE percentages of the populations of those countries that do not accept the existence of Israel. In fact, the "disconnect" between the stated policies of the state and the desires of the people is a running theme in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is the most notorious example.
On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote: The terms of the deals were all bad. That's pretty simple to understand. It's the equivalent to the US offering Indian reservations, except this has happened within the past 50 years. Of course they didn't want to accept the terms. Why don't you tell us why those are Palestinian territories? Why don't you tell us why settlers continue to move deeper into the West Bank?
Israel offered significant chunks of its territory to the Palestinians in exchange for peace when it really wasn't obliged to do so. Is it a great deal for the Palestinians considering what they had before Israel existed? Of course not. But let me ask you this: what should Israel offer and what should the Palestinians accept?
On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:The two state solution will be difficult to achieve, but it's certainly not an impossibility like people here for some reason believe. Things like "they want to kill us all" are cheap political lines to garner thoughtless, uncritical support, like the propaganda between the US and USSR during the Cold War. Of course none of it is true, but the line is put out there because enough people will believe it, and will therefore we need them (being the person who said it) to keep us save from those other people. Palestinians and Israelis co-exist on a daily basis, you've just got two aggressive, conservative (some would say reactionary or fundamentalist-lite) governments, one of which happens to be nearly failed, and therefore nothing can get done.
I think you're grossly underestimating the popular enmity for Israel in the Middle East, particularly with regards to the Palestinians. They elected Hamas to lead them. What more needs be said?
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Stealthblue.. that is just.. awful. To even think about that makes me irate.
On June 03 2010 12:09 Abraxas514 wrote:
Here's a question:
Why should Israel give back ANY territory it conquered in the 6 day war? I mean, why doesn't the United States just give back California and Texas? I mean, Mexicans are poor too!
Palestinian sympathizers want to help the population (and believe me, Israel wants nothing else but peace with them) but there should always be a good justification for any ground that a country is willing to give up.
Dude, Israel is still taking Palestinian land. & lol, you can pretty much consider Califorina and Texas Mexican states again, I live in Dallas and their are more Mexicans in my school then whites.
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Stealthblue, those cages look comfortable. Imo no reason for concern.
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I can't even comprehend the mental gymnastics you need to do to call for the destruction of Israel and then go one to call other people racist. If wanting to wipe out or displace a good portion of an entire race isn't racist, what is?
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On June 03 2010 12:59 jalstar wrote:
I can't even comprehend the mental gymnastics you need to do to call for the destruction of Israel and then go one to call other people racist. If wanting to wipe out or displace a good portion of an entire race isn't racist, what is?
It's really easy to comprehend actually; call for the destruction of Nazi Germany and then go and call them racists. Sounds legit, no?
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United States22883 Posts
On June 03 2010 12:43 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:Neither of these statements have any merit. Both sets of populaces have come to agreement on some type of co-existence, politicians and land settlement aren't there yet. I disagree. Yes, there are zealots in both Israel and Palestine who won't tolerate a two-state solution. However, with regards to the Israelis, those zealots are much more of a minority. Why, do you ask? Simple: Israeli governments have been trying to work out a real two-state solution for decades. The Palestinians? Their governments have largely given Israel the finger for decades. Right now, the Palestinian government in Gaza is Hamas. Hamas has said that they will not tolerate the existence of Israel. So please, don't pretend that there's no difference between the Israelis and Palestinians on desiring peace or tolerating a two-state solution. Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:
This line right here shows me you're uneducated on the issue and have just bought the line fed by mainstream American media, which includes both 'conservative' and 'liberal' sources. It's like the "ancient hatreds" crap they pulled during the Bosnian war. What part of Hamas's stated "we will not tolerate the existence of Israel" policy do you not understand? Yes, most of the national governments of the Middle Eastern states publicly recognize and accept Israel's existence, but there are a lot of radical groups and LARGE percentages of the populations of those countries that do not accept the existence of Israel. In fact, the "disconnect" between the stated policies of the state and the desires of the people is a running theme in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is the most notorious example. Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote: The terms of the deals were all bad. That's pretty simple to understand. It's the equivalent to the US offering Indian reservations, except this has happened within the past 50 years. Of course they didn't want to accept the terms. Why don't you tell us why those are Palestinian territories? Why don't you tell us why settlers continue to move deeper into the West Bank? Israel offered significant chunks of its territory to the Palestinians in exchange for peace when it really wasn't obliged to do so. Is it a great deal for the Palestinians considering what they had before Israel existed? Of course not. But let me ask you this: what should Israel offer and what should the Palestinians accept? Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:The two state solution will be difficult to achieve, but it's certainly not an impossibility like people here for some reason believe. Things like "they want to kill us all" are cheap political lines to garner thoughtless, uncritical support, like the propaganda between the US and USSR during the Cold War. Of course none of it is true, but the line is put out there because enough people will believe it, and will therefore we need them (being the person who said it) to keep us save from those other people. Palestinians and Israelis co-exist on a daily basis, you've just got two aggressive, conservative (some would say reactionary or fundamentalist-lite) governments, one of which happens to be nearly failed, and therefore nothing can get done. I think you're grossly underestimating the popular enmity for Israel in the Middle East, particularly with regards to the Palestinians. They elected Hamas to lead them. What more needs be said? What is your knowledge of the situation based off of? Morris? Schlaim? Oren? Or crap like Karsch or even Derschowitz? Please, tell me how your opinion has been framed on this issue.
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On June 03 2010 12:43 xDaunt wrote:
Yes, there are zealots in both Israel and Palestine who won't tolerate a two-state solution. However, with regards to the Israelis, those zealots are much more of a minority. Why, do you ask? Simple: Israeli governments have been trying to work out a real two-state solution for decades. The Palestinians? Their governments have largely given Israel the finger for decades. Right now, the Palestinian government in Gaza is Hamas. Hamas has said that they will not tolerate the existence of Israel. So please, don't pretend that there's no difference between the Israelis and Palestinians on desiring peace or tolerating a two-state solution.
Don't be so naive. War serves the Israeli government. Last thing they want is to stop it. It gives them the ability to continuously steal land and expand their territorial and political power in the Middle East. They have the technology, resources and back up to do it. People think of colonialism as this long ago thing....what the Israeli government is doing is exactly that.
Picture this, you are in your house and a group of native Americans, knock on your door with a military escort and tell you to evacuate since they are "taking back their land" Would you give them the finger?
Both, Palestinian government and Israeli Government are a bunch of thugs. None of them have more ethical and righteous side. Israel has been, for years, violating human rights and laws and you are surprised Palestine is giving them the finger? And is it really a surprise that Hamas was elected? As far as the population of Palestine is concerned, it has been engulfed in war and death so long, most people are uneducated and with illiteracy running rampant, its no surprise they are running on pure emotions at this point, you and I and everyone else here would be too if faced with their daily life.
Remember September 11? Bush couldve said we need to attack Iceland and people would've followed (exaggeration but you get the principle). Add to the mix propaganda and you have an easy way of pushing your own agenda.
Israel offered significant chunks of its territory to the Palestinians in exchange for peace when it really wasn't obliged to do so. Is it a great deal for the Palestinians considering what they had before Israel existed? Of course not. But let me ask you this: what should Israel offer and what should the Palestinians accept?
Peace cannot occur if human rights are constantly ignored.
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United States22883 Posts
What? Palestine has one of the best literacy rates in the world. Both Israel and Palestine have very educated populaces, relative to most of the world. There's tons of MDs, JDs, PhDs coming from both.
Part of the blockage on Gaza has included school supplies at times, and there are some issues with school systems in both territories, but it's fair to say both areas have high emotions and high level of education.
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Kindred you are assuming that Israel will propagate war even if Hamas ceases hostility.
I don't understand this rationale. The Nazis were driven by the fact that they were superior and should in a perfect world be the ONLY humans alive.
Israel simply wants to stop bombs from exploding within it's borders.
No rockets/bombers = no more checkpoints. Maybe we should be looking at fundamentalist Islamists and realizing that war serves THEM, and Palestine is just a pawn in their larger propaganda campaign.... (I mean, why else wouldn't hamas accept the supplies given to them from the oh-so-generous brotherhood of Islam??)
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On June 03 2010 13:16 Jibba wrote:
What? Palestine has one of the best literacy rates in the world. Both Israel and Palestine have very educated populaces, relative to most of the world. There's tons of MDs, JDs, PhDs coming from both.
Part of the blockage on Gaza has included school supplies at times, and there are some issues with school systems in both territories, but it's fair to say both areas have high emotions and high level of education.
Education does nothing to correct fanaticism that has been raised on both sides of that table. If i am told the color blue is really green all my life it's pretty hard for me to take it other wise.
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On June 03 2010 13:16 Abraxas514 wrote:
Kindred you are assuming that Israel will propagate war even if Hamas ceases hostility.
I don't understand this rationale. The Nazis were driven by the fact that they were superior and should in a perfect world be the ONLY humans alive.
Israel simply wants to stop bombs from exploding within it's borders.
No rockets/bombers = no more checkpoints. Maybe we should be looking at fundamentalist Islamists and realizing that war serves THEM, and Palestine is just a pawn in their larger propaganda campaign.... (I mean, why else wouldn't hamas accept the supplies given to them from the oh-so-generous brotherhood of Islam??)
And why should anyone believe this? It's pretty naive to trust everything that Israeli claim they would like to do. All I see is hyper aggressive behavior and more attempts to expand.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:24 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:16 Jibba wrote:
What? Palestine has one of the best literacy rates in the world. Both Israel and Palestine have very educated populaces, relative to most of the world. There's tons of MDs, JDs, PhDs coming from both.
Part of the blockage on Gaza has included school supplies at times, and there are some issues with school systems in both territories, but it's fair to say both areas have high emotions and high level of education. Education does nothing to correct fanaticism that has been raised on both sides of that table. If i am told the color blue is really green all my life it's pretty hard for me to take it other wise. Fanaticism implies irrationality, which I don't believe is the case. The most irrational actors are the Israelis that move into the West Bank for religious reasons, and even then, they're usually offered monetized incentives from the government. It's entirely possible for two rational views to come into conflict. That's what we have, along with bad politics. I asked David Trimble about it and said he believes that, unfortunately, there hasn't been enough bloodshed for it to happen. All of sets of political leaders (including neighboring countries, and the US too imo) still benefit from the conflict.
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On June 03 2010 13:32 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:24 semantics wrote:On June 03 2010 13:16 Jibba wrote:
What? Palestine has one of the best literacy rates in the world. Both Israel and Palestine have very educated populaces, relative to most of the world. There's tons of MDs, JDs, PhDs coming from both.
Part of the blockage on Gaza has included school supplies at times, and there are some issues with school systems in both territories, but it's fair to say both areas have high emotions and high level of education. Education does nothing to correct fanaticism that has been raised on both sides of that table. If i am told the color blue is really green all my life it's pretty hard for me to take it other wise. Fanaticism implies irrationality, which I don't believe is the case. The most irrational actors are the Israelis that move into the West Bank for religious reasons, and even then, they're usually offered monetized incentives from the government.
paranoia? Franky i see Israel as a paranoid state, as a lot of their actions seem logical if you use the mindset that they don't trust the Palestinians or anyone in that region.
ofc i'll just quote again
"Men of sense often learn from their enemies. It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls and ships of war."
-Aristophanes
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On June 03 2010 13:05 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:Neither of these statements have any merit. Both sets of populaces have come to agreement on some type of co-existence, politicians and land settlement aren't there yet. I disagree. Yes, there are zealots in both Israel and Palestine who won't tolerate a two-state solution. However, with regards to the Israelis, those zealots are much more of a minority. Why, do you ask? Simple: Israeli governments have been trying to work out a real two-state solution for decades. The Palestinians? Their governments have largely given Israel the finger for decades. Right now, the Palestinian government in Gaza is Hamas. Hamas has said that they will not tolerate the existence of Israel. So please, don't pretend that there's no difference between the Israelis and Palestinians on desiring peace or tolerating a two-state solution. On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:
This line right here shows me you're uneducated on the issue and have just bought the line fed by mainstream American media, which includes both 'conservative' and 'liberal' sources. It's like the "ancient hatreds" crap they pulled during the Bosnian war. What part of Hamas's stated "we will not tolerate the existence of Israel" policy do you not understand? Yes, most of the national governments of the Middle Eastern states publicly recognize and accept Israel's existence, but there are a lot of radical groups and LARGE percentages of the populations of those countries that do not accept the existence of Israel. In fact, the "disconnect" between the stated policies of the state and the desires of the people is a running theme in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is the most notorious example. On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote: The terms of the deals were all bad. That's pretty simple to understand. It's the equivalent to the US offering Indian reservations, except this has happened within the past 50 years. Of course they didn't want to accept the terms. Why don't you tell us why those are Palestinian territories? Why don't you tell us why settlers continue to move deeper into the West Bank? Israel offered significant chunks of its territory to the Palestinians in exchange for peace when it really wasn't obliged to do so. Is it a great deal for the Palestinians considering what they had before Israel existed? Of course not. But let me ask you this: what should Israel offer and what should the Palestinians accept? On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:The two state solution will be difficult to achieve, but it's certainly not an impossibility like people here for some reason believe. Things like "they want to kill us all" are cheap political lines to garner thoughtless, uncritical support, like the propaganda between the US and USSR during the Cold War. Of course none of it is true, but the line is put out there because enough people will believe it, and will therefore we need them (being the person who said it) to keep us save from those other people. Palestinians and Israelis co-exist on a daily basis, you've just got two aggressive, conservative (some would say reactionary or fundamentalist-lite) governments, one of which happens to be nearly failed, and therefore nothing can get done. I think you're grossly underestimating the popular enmity for Israel in the Middle East, particularly with regards to the Palestinians. They elected Hamas to lead them. What more needs be said? What is your knowledge of the situation based off of? Morris? Schlaim? Oren? Or crap like Karsch or even Derschowitz? Please, tell me how your opinion has been framed on this issue.
Does that matter? Do you deny that Hamas has as its stated goal the obliteration of the Israeli state? Yeah sure they offer Hudnas once in a while, but those are by their definition temporary.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:39 MamiyaOtaru wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:05 Jibba wrote:On June 03 2010 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:Neither of these statements have any merit. Both sets of populaces have come to agreement on some type of co-existence, politicians and land settlement aren't there yet. I disagree. Yes, there are zealots in both Israel and Palestine who won't tolerate a two-state solution. However, with regards to the Israelis, those zealots are much more of a minority. Why, do you ask? Simple: Israeli governments have been trying to work out a real two-state solution for decades. The Palestinians? Their governments have largely given Israel the finger for decades. Right now, the Palestinian government in Gaza is Hamas. Hamas has said that they will not tolerate the existence of Israel. So please, don't pretend that there's no difference between the Israelis and Palestinians on desiring peace or tolerating a two-state solution. On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:
This line right here shows me you're uneducated on the issue and have just bought the line fed by mainstream American media, which includes both 'conservative' and 'liberal' sources. It's like the "ancient hatreds" crap they pulled during the Bosnian war. What part of Hamas's stated "we will not tolerate the existence of Israel" policy do you not understand? Yes, most of the national governments of the Middle Eastern states publicly recognize and accept Israel's existence, but there are a lot of radical groups and LARGE percentages of the populations of those countries that do not accept the existence of Israel. In fact, the "disconnect" between the stated policies of the state and the desires of the people is a running theme in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is the most notorious example. On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote: The terms of the deals were all bad. That's pretty simple to understand. It's the equivalent to the US offering Indian reservations, except this has happened within the past 50 years. Of course they didn't want to accept the terms. Why don't you tell us why those are Palestinian territories? Why don't you tell us why settlers continue to move deeper into the West Bank? Israel offered significant chunks of its territory to the Palestinians in exchange for peace when it really wasn't obliged to do so. Is it a great deal for the Palestinians considering what they had before Israel existed? Of course not. But let me ask you this: what should Israel offer and what should the Palestinians accept? On June 03 2010 11:08 Jibba wrote:The two state solution will be difficult to achieve, but it's certainly not an impossibility like people here for some reason believe. Things like "they want to kill us all" are cheap political lines to garner thoughtless, uncritical support, like the propaganda between the US and USSR during the Cold War. Of course none of it is true, but the line is put out there because enough people will believe it, and will therefore we need them (being the person who said it) to keep us save from those other people. Palestinians and Israelis co-exist on a daily basis, you've just got two aggressive, conservative (some would say reactionary or fundamentalist-lite) governments, one of which happens to be nearly failed, and therefore nothing can get done. I think you're grossly underestimating the popular enmity for Israel in the Middle East, particularly with regards to the Palestinians. They elected Hamas to lead them. What more needs be said? What is your knowledge of the situation based off of? Morris? Schlaim? Oren? Or crap like Karsch or even Derschowitz? Please, tell me how your opinion has been framed on this issue. Does that matter? Do you deny that Hamas has as its stated goal the obliteration of the Israeli state? Yeah sure they offer Hudnas once in a while, but those are by their definition temporary. As I've pointed out over and over in this thread, politicians from every country say dumb shit to win support. The reality is that no one will be obliterating Israel and every single person in charge of rebuilding a Palestinian state is aware of that. Aside from that, a lot of the statements have also been mistranslated and skewed.
It matters for the same reason that you want physicists teaching your kids physics in high school, and not someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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On June 03 2010 13:27 condoriano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:16 Abraxas514 wrote:
Kindred you are assuming that Israel will propagate war even if Hamas ceases hostility.
I don't understand this rationale. The Nazis were driven by the fact that they were superior and should in a perfect world be the ONLY humans alive.
Israel simply wants to stop bombs from exploding within it's borders.
No rockets/bombers = no more checkpoints. Maybe we should be looking at fundamentalist Islamists and realizing that war serves THEM, and Palestine is just a pawn in their larger propaganda campaign.... (I mean, why else wouldn't hamas accept the supplies given to them from the oh-so-generous brotherhood of Islam??) And why should anyone believe this? It's pretty naive to trust everything that Israeli claim they would like to do. All I see is hyper aggressive behavior and more attempts to expand.
This is precisely the propaganda that Islamic fundamentalists spread against Israel.
How many wars has Israel been the aggressor? Only the 6-day war in which it's borders were completely sieged.
How were palestinians living before the PLO began bombing Israel? Like landed immigrants in Canada.
When did Israel begin retaliating? Once the PLO and then Hamas began attacking the country.
Why is it so hard to believe Israel just wants peace, and that islamic fundamentalist only want war?
(I would like to point out for the sake of discussion that Judaism is the only major religion that is not proselytizing. Christianity attempted for a thousand years to proselytize all of Europe and Asia minor. Islam fundamentalists are currently trying very hard to proselytize the entire world via war, while non-violent Muslims hold the belief that through education the world will eventually believe in their religion. In Islam, EVERY one is born Muslim, therefore they should be taught in it's ways.
Jews have NEVER in history ever been interested in conquest. Israel is not an exception. Conquest simply is not part of the Jewish mentality. Unfortunately for the rest of the world, conquest is VERY much a part of Islamic fundamentalism.)
(I also would like to point out I respect non-violent Islamic attempts at conversion. Peaceful Islam is a beautiful religion.)
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On June 03 2010 13:16 Jibba wrote:
What? Palestine has one of the best literacy rates in the world. Both Israel and Palestine have very educated populaces, relative to most of the world. There's tons of MDs, JDs, PhDs coming from both.
Israel may have MDs running out of it but I don't know where you are getting your info that Palestine has PhDs up the wasoo... Do share. Kind of hard to believe when most kids end up stopping school due to poverty or to help out their parents make money for food. The blockades also separating kids from their schools doesn't help either
On June 03 2010 13:16 Abraxas514 wrote:
Kindred you are assuming that Israel will propagate war even if Hamas ceases hostility.
I don't understand this rationale. The Nazis were driven by the fact that they were superior and should in a perfect world be the ONLY humans alive.
Israel simply wants to stop bombs from exploding within it's borders.
No rockets/bombers = no more checkpoints. Maybe we should be looking at fundamentalist Islamists and realizing that war serves THEM, and Palestine is just a pawn in their larger propaganda campaign.... (I mean, why else wouldn't hamas accept the supplies given to them from the oh-so-generous brotherhood of Islam??)
Every time there is a ceasefire of sorts, one of the sides attacks. Not always Hamas and not always Israel. But someone does and that creates inevitable lack of trust. And its not so far fetched of an idea that Israel wouldnt abide to a ceasefire...it's not abiding by international law when it comes to the construction of the wall, or to attacking ships on international water, or regularly violating airspace with neighboring countries (Lebanon for instance)
Its very nice that Israel wants to protect itself from bombs but who's protecting the Palestinians from the ongoing violation of human rights?
No rockets/bombers = no more checkpoints
That made me laugh. If the conflict was that simple do you really think we would be discussing it? That statement pretty much ignores the whole history of the conflict.
What about,
no violation of human rights = no rockets/bombs
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How much do you know about the history of the conflict Kindred? Palestinians want to own the territory their families lived in 70 years ago. 20 years ago they began being violent.
The two things are only partially related. If you dont want to read what I explained about Islamic fundamentalism, you might as well be ignorant, and your opinions completely biased.
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EPT
