EPTbut we can feel that the banks in germany, greece and italy is taking some heavy hits which affects us big time with stock and stuff
The European Debt Crisis and the Euro - Page 70
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Cigar
Sweden12 Posts
but we can feel that the banks in germany, greece and italy is taking some heavy hits which affects us big time with stock and stuff | ||
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
The one and only thing that might possibly spare Greece the agony of a completely worthless currency is Greece's small hoard of 111 tons of gold. Pact With the Devil Yet, in the fine print in the latest deal, Greece’s lenders will have the right to seize its gold reserves according to the New York Times article Growing Air of Concern in Greece Over New Bailout. In the fine print of the 400-plus-page document — which Parliament members had a weekend to read and sign — Greece relinquished fundamental parts of its sovereignty to its foreign lenders, the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. “This is the first time ever that a European and probably an O.E.C.D. state abdicates its rights of immunity over all its assets to its lenders,” said Louka Katseli, an independent member of Parliament who previously represented the Socialist Party, using the abbreviation for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. She was one of several independents who joined 43 lawmakers from the two largest parties in voting against the loan agreement. Ms. Katseli, an economist who was labor minister in the government of George Papandreou until she left in a cabinet reshuffle last June, was also upset that Greece’s lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece under the terms of the new deal, and that future bonds issued will be governed by English law and in Luxembourg courts, conditions more favorable to creditors. Causing a Nightmare Scenario On Tuesday, Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos defended the new debt agreement, calling it “the most significant deal in Greece’s postwar history” and asserting that it had “averted a nightmare scenario.” Today this same puppet of the Troika installed government claims, as he has been for weeks, No Loan Deal Means Absolute Catastrophe Greece Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said Thursday Greece would face an absolute catastrophe if it didn't approve the terms demanded by international creditors in exchange for a second bailout, which includes a EUR107 billion debt write-down plan. Greece is already in a state of absolute catastrophe. The one thing 100% guaranteed to make matters worse for Greece is if Greece lost its hoard of gold to the thieves and plunderers at the IMF and Troika. Rather than "averting a nightmare scenario" that pact is going to "cause" a nightmare hyperinflation scenario. Value of 111 Tons of Gold One tonne = 1000 kilograms = 32150.746 troy ounces. At $1780 per troy ounce, the value of that gold is roughly $6.35 billion. Given an estimated size of the Greek economy at $290 billion or so, that is not a huge hoard. However, something is better than nothing as Zimbabwe proves. Something is enough to prevent a currency from going completely worthless, although obviously not enough to prevent a massive devaluation. Still Time There is still time for Greece to come to its senses and reject the deal. Also recall the conditions of the deal require a constitutional change and that is impossible before 2013. For details, please see Greece Needs New Constitutional Provision Imposed by the Troika; Slight Problem, Constitutionally It Can't Do it Biggest Hope for Greece is Germany In an enormous irony, Germany may be the biggest hope for Greece. Although France and other countries do want this pact to go through, Germany's words and actions prove that Germany does not. Germany has put up roadblock after roadblock attempting to get Greece to scuttle the deal, only to have fools like Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos agree to them. It may be up to Germany to come up with still more ludicrous demands in hope that the Greek finance minister and Greek politicians finally get the message "it's not wise to make a pact with the Troika devil", especially one that requires Greece to relinquish its gold. Mike "Mish" Shedlock http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Leading economies of the world have told Europe it must put up extra money to fight its debt crisis if it wants more help from the rest of the world. Eurozone countries pledged on Sunday at a Group of 20 meetings of finance leaders in Mexico City to reassess the strength of their bailout fund in March, which could clear the way for other G20 countries to contribute more funds to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). In a statement released after the meeting, the G20 said: "Euro area countries will reassess the strength of their support facilities in March. "This will provide an essential input in our ongoing consideration to mobilise resources to the IMF." The statement said. Calls on the eurozone to boost their crisis-fighting war chest dominated the meeting, with top officials such as US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner saying it was essential to prevent a worldwide economic fallout. Geithner however praised European nations for having acted to reduce risks of "catastrophic" financial crisis but said a bigger firewall was needed against future contagion. "A durable solution requires both a sustained period of economic reform and a substantial financial firewall to support those reforms," said Geithner. At a crunch two-day summit in Brussels starting on Thursday, EU leaders will be debating whether to combine their current firewall, the EFSF, with a permanent pot due to come into effect in July, which will give the17-nation zone a total fund of $1tn. Source | ||
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WallieP
Netherlands425 Posts
Efforts to reform and rebuild Greece’s economy in future will be undermined because the country’s government, businesses and civil servants not only fail to stop corruption but actively participate in it. The warning comes today from Transparency International Greece’s first ever assessment of the ability of important national institutions to fight corruption. Source | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
Default insurance on Greek debt won’t be paid out even after the nation negotiated the biggest sovereign-debt restructuring in history, the International Swaps & Derivatives Association ruled today. Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-01/greece-may-default-on-governments-this-year-kirkegaard-says-tom-keene.html The determination committee: Voting Dealers Bank of America / Merrill Lynch Barclays BNP Paribas Credit Suisse Deutsche Bank Goldman Sachs JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. Morgan Stanley Societe Generale UBS Consultative Dealers Citibank The Royal Bank of Scotland Voting Non-dealers BlueMountain Capital (Second Term Non-dealer) Citadel LLC(First Term Non-dealer) D.E. Shaw Group (First Term Non-dealer) Elliott Management Corporation (Third Term Non-dealer) Pacific Investment Management Co., LLC (Second Term Non-dealer) This could very well be the same banks who would take big losses if CDS (insurance instrument) were activated by a greece default. Some times its hard to differentiate between what is corruption and what is not. EDIT: Its not as bad as I throught. Most investors estimate that when CAC (the depreciation of the greece bonds) is activated, Greece will "default", according to the CDS definition. | ||
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lOvOlUNiMEDiA
United States643 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4359 Posts
All these rich bankers buying up Greek islands isn't really doing them much good either. As for the new socialist leaders coming in wanting to increase taxes on the rich - try making them actually pay taxes in the first place? Tax free havens: How Apple avoided paying $2.4 billion in taxes - report http://www.news.com.au/business/tax-free-havens-how-apple-avoided-paying-24-billion-in-taxes-report/story-e6frfm1i-1226342288865 | ||
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WallieP
Netherlands425 Posts
Video: 6 May 2012: Nikos Michaloliakos, the leader of the Greek neonazi group "Golden Dawn" delivers a Hitler-style speech, after his group has entered the parliament with almost 7% of the votes. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On May 07 2012 21:47 WallieP wrote: The new greece leaders eems nice... really think we gonna go down hard in europe now ;( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4AXJx3IzdY&feature=player_embedded#! Video: 6 May 2012: Nikos Michaloliakos, the leader of the Greek neonazi group "Golden Dawn" delivers a Hitler-style speech, after his group has entered the parliament with almost 7% of the votes. Are they neo nazis in the sense of "we are superior and there should be seperation between us and them" only, or do they also would like to kill jewish people? | ||
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WallieP
Netherlands425 Posts
On May 07 2012 21:52 RageBot wrote: Are they neo nazis in the sense of "we are superior and there should be seperation between us and them" only, or do they also would like to kill jewish people? I guess the first part, but i dont know enough about the greece politics to be sure, i did not add the neonazi part just pasted it... i was just a bit dumbfounded and triggered by the way the guy is talking and what he is saying | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4359 Posts
On May 07 2012 21:57 WallieP wrote: I guess the first part, but i dont know enough about the greece politics to be sure, i did not add the neonazi part just pasted it... i was just a bit dumbfounded and triggered by the way the guy is talking and what he is saying Only start worrying when they crack down on gun ownership like Hitler and Stalin did. | ||
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lebowskiguy
Greece201 Posts
This is a problem caused by a mix of a crisis, lots of immigrants and plain old human stupidity. (the mass media finally start to realize the part they have played I hope). At least these guys are idiots and they declared war on all media lol. Let's see how that works out for them | ||
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Meldon
Greece128 Posts
On May 07 2012 21:57 WallieP wrote: I guess the first part, but i dont know enough about the greece politics to be sure, i did not add the neonazi part just pasted it... i was just a bit dumbfounded and triggered by the way the guy is talking and what he is saying They are extremist - nationalistic party that on the previous election got something like 0.25% Its members are regarded to be involved in illegal activities and are considered society outsiders. They primarily got support for unofficially dealing with illegal immigrant issues in the poor neighborhoods in the center of Athens (where the immigrant to native ratio is 10-1), f.e. you had a room and u were "lending" it to immigrants and they didn't pay or had problems with them. Instead of calling the police you would call them and they would clear the immigrants out. Their election is a huge shock and shows the confusion that the lower layers of the Greek society are in. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4359 Posts
On May 07 2012 22:26 Meldon wrote: They are extremist - nationalistic party that on the previous election got something like 0.25% Its members are regarded to be involved in illegal activities and are considered society outsiders. They primarily got support for unofficially dealing with illegal immigrant issues in the poor neighborhoods in the center of Athens (where the immigrant to native ratio is 10-1), f.e. you had a room and u were "lending" it to immigrants and they didn't pay or had problems with them. Instead of calling the police you would call them and they would clear the immigrants out. Their election is a huge shock and shows the confusion that the lower layers of the Greek society are in. Those immigrants are probably leaving greece now anyway Surely the economy is better in Turkey than it is in Greece? | ||
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lebowskiguy
Greece201 Posts
On May 07 2012 22:35 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Those immigrants are probably leaving greece now anyway Surely the economy is better in Turkey than it is in Greece? most immigrants didn't even want to end up in Greece... They wanted to go elsewhere and they are stuck in this gateway country | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Greece's politicians have failed to agree to form a new government after days of hectic parleys among the major political parties, sending the country hurtling towards a possible new vote. Evangelos Venizelos, leader of the Socialist PASOK party, acknowledged on Friday his failure to form a government after he was spurned by radical left coalition (Syriza), which has campaigned against the bailout. "The moment of truth is here. I will inform the president tomorrow afternoon. I hope everybody shows maturity and responsibility in consultations with the president," Venizelos said. Karolos Papoulias, the Greek president, will now have a last chance to meet with all political leaders to convince them to agree a cabinet, although the odds of success are seen as scant. If he fails as expected, he must call a new election for mid-June. The prospect of a new election just weeks after an inconclusive vote that paralysed the most troubled country in the eurozone caused havoc in financial markets. The European single currency hit its lowest point since January near $1.29, while the Athens stock exchange fell more than 4 percent to its lowest level since 1992. Separately, Papoulias's office said he would meet Venizelos on Saturday on 10:00 GMT. Earlier in the day, Venizelos held talks with centre-right New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras and other political leaders in a bid to form a coalition. Source | ||
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GnarlyArbitrage
575 Posts
There are planetary theories using the position of Venus relative to Jupiter and such for trading, and some of the guys who do planetary trading say the Euro is doomed. I have the feeling that the Euro will not be around in five years, tops. China will come in to replace it, while other countries like Germany may get to use their currency as a world reserve currency, kind of like the GBP. Right now, the Japanese yen is trying to work some magic on the USD, but both currencies are still top dogs. Other than a currency being replaced, I don't think anything worldly serious will happen, like WW3. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On May 12 2012 06:46 DigiGnar wrote: Sunday, when the foreign exghange markets opened up worldwide, some platforms had shown a gap in price in the EUR/USD pair. Others showed a very big red candle. Then, about wednesday morning, the price for EU broke an extremely significant level. There are planetary theories using the position of Venus relative to Jupiter and such for trading, and some of the guys who do planetary trading say the Euro is doomed. I have the feeling that the Euro will not be around in five years, tops. China will come in to replace it, while other countries like Germany may get to use their currency as a world reserve currency, kind of like the GBP. Right now, the Japanese yen is trying to work some magic on the USD, but both currencies are still top dogs. Other than a currency being replaced, I don't think anything worldly serious will happen, like WW3. There's much greater incentive (exports) for Greece to go back to the Drachma than for Germany to return to the Mark. | ||
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Vivax
22091 Posts
This is just more panic stirring, good time to buy stocks when they fall cause of news. I bet that they will stay in just for the greek military and the chance to get Turkey in. The political picture won't change imo, but i expect a new currency or a revalutation in max 5 years. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Spain's "indignants" are demonstrating in cities and towns nationwide to decry economic injustice and mark the first birthday of the grassroots movement which inspired "Occupy" protests in the US and around the world. Tens of thousands of people rallied on Saturday to mark the beginning of a four-day protest that will end on May 15, the anniversary of the movement's birth. Several columns of protesters marched separately on Madrid's city centre from all directions to converge on central Puerta del Sol. But authorities vowed to stop them camping in the square, which became the cradle of their popular movement. The "Indignados" (or indignants), a youth-led movement which took to the streets in 2011 in protest against political corruption and economic hardship, say not much has changed in a year. They feel they have even more to demonstrate against this time around, including a recession, unemployment at 24.4 per cent, and 52 per cent for the young, and more than 30 billion euros ($39 billion) worth of austerity cuts so far this year. Al Jazeera's Sonia Gallego, reporting from Madrid, said: "The message is still the same as it was last year. They want a more democratic way of doing politics, and they also want to use this as a statement against the government and against the austerity cuts that the government has started to implement this year." Gallego said the movement was still focused on working at a grassroots level, which had been one of its key successes. Source | ||
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