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On May 13 2012 05:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:I would think Turkey would count itself lucky it was declined to join the EU or they would also be asked to fork over billions, no? Show nested quote +Spain's "indignants" are demonstrating in cities and towns nationwide to decry economic injustice and mark the first birthday of the grassroots movement which inspired "Occupy" protests in the US and around the world.
Tens of thousands of people rallied on Saturday to mark the beginning of a four-day protest that will end on May 15, the anniversary of the movement's birth.
Several columns of protesters marched separately on Madrid's city centre from all directions to converge on central Puerta del Sol. But authorities vowed to stop them camping in the square, which became the cradle of their popular movement.
The "Indignados" (or indignants), a youth-led movement which took to the streets in 2011 in protest against political corruption and economic hardship, say not much has changed in a year.
They feel they have even more to demonstrate against this time around, including a recession, unemployment at 24.4 per cent, and 52 per cent for the young, and more than 30 billion euros ($39 billion) worth of austerity cuts so far this year.
Al Jazeera's Sonia Gallego, reporting from Madrid, said: "The message is still the same as it was last year. They want a more democratic way of doing politics, and they also want to use this as a statement against the government and against the austerity cuts that the government has started to implement this year."
Gallego said the movement was still focused on working at a grassroots level, which had been one of its key successes. Source
In other news on the situation in Spain:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304203604577397951697148154.html
MADRID—The Spanish government will force local banks to set aside an additional €30 billion ($38.81 billion) to cover potential losses and to speed up the sale of troubled assets, as investors become increasingly concerned that Spain will need a bailout targeted at the banks to help clean up its ailing financial system.
The measures mark Spain's fourth attempt in three years to overhaul a banking industry struggling under the collapse of a decadelong housing boom and come only days after the government rescued the country's fourth-largest bank by market value. Concerns about Spanish banks is a major reason why the government's borrowing costs have spiraled to worrisome levels.
But some analysts said the banks' problems go far deeper, and will continue to worsen as home prices fall further in a country of 25% unemployment and other types of loans also increasingly sour.
...
Analysts at Espírito Santo Investment Bank in London estimate the Spanish banking system needs approximately €100 billion. That is an amount that Spain would have severe difficulties raising without external support, a possibility that Spanish officials again ruled out Friday.
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It's time for Greece to leave the EU and go back to the Drachma, glad the people had their saying and sent a clear signal to the corrupt politicians. EU is a failed experiment, I hope it breaks down and/or Sweden leaves it.
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What is sad is that the Europe is a good idea politically. I don't know for you, but I feel like we, europeans, are linked in some way and the european community is, in this regard a good idea.
But I just don't understand why those idiotic politician had to make Europe this way, it's just crushing the weakest economy. After Greece, there is Italy, Spain, France, all in the same boat.
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If its only greece leaving it wont kill the euro.
Am getting a bit woried though about what might happen with the euro if more countrys would leave.
If euro breaks then there a few possible ways.
A split;, the northern countrys get the neuro, and the southern ones the seuro.
The northern countrys leave and go back to their own currency, the southern keep the euro.
The southern countrys leave and go back to their own individual currencys and the northern countrys keep the euro.
Every country leaves the euro and starts a new national currency.
The question is a bit what will happen with the economys of thoose countrys afterwards in anny of these possible scenarios.
Inflation ,purchase power, housing prices ,are all important to people and might change by huge margins
How are your safings converted and what happens to the huge amount of euro debt both companys and governments have?
Breaking up euro seems like impossible.
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On May 13 2012 06:16 WhiteDog wrote:
What is sad is that the Europe is a good idea politically. I don't know for you, but I feel like we, europeans, are linked in some way and the european community is, in this regard a good idea.
But I just don't understand why those idiotic politician had to make Europe this way, it's just crushing the weakest economy. After Greece, there is Italy, Spain, France, all in the same boat.
French socialists are said to be the main problem in this regard. Among other things they defend, the "traveling circus" and the agricultural support-system.
However an even larger problem is the lack of sufficient democratic oversight and accountability of the european commission. That is not a problem created by french socialists. The commission is basically made up of frinds of the politicians in the european counsil (ministers from each country in europe) and historically they have been thrown out en masse because of corruption once in 1999 and several cases has shown later, like the 2004 where an auditer official was fired for bringing forth allegations of fraud in his department. The latest commission had several people with too gray a past to get accepted into the commission and therefore rejections...
The european parliament is not sufficiently accountable towards europe and still has too much national special interest support, but that is starting to recede. Still a cross-national vote is a necessity to truely get a european accountability, but so far the british ideas behind that has recieved a semi-rejection. Not because it is a bad idea, but because especially Italy and Poland is acting up and demanding more influence, while Spain gets shafted hard in numbers of parliamentarians. Even without a pan-european segment, we will inevitably see more drama in an already farce-like negotiation because of the hoops they had to jump through in the last negotiations to reach an agreement.
The Euro is an old dream followed through with a semi-bad treaty that they thought they could force through. Inevitably several countries had provisions to force a national vote and in quite a few, a no went through because people generally dislike the way much of modern laws are passed without any significant input from private people (lobbying in EP is said to be extreme!).
The result has been that nothing regarding EU will get voted on because a no would be devastating to the members of all 3 institutions' agenda...
Getting Greece out of the Euro will probably be a good thing in the long run. Still doesn't sufficiently force a much needed reform of the Euro-treaty though.
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On May 13 2012 07:09 Rassy wrote:
How are your safings converted and what happens to the huge amount of euro debt both companys and governments have?
The monetary reform in Germany of 1948 caused an exchange of old money with new at a ratio of 10:1 , assets such as stocks and bonds were exchanged at a ratio of 1:1.
Personally, i'm going for stocks cause German BoTs are already 'oversaturated', some people even speak of a bubble, but they are considered the safest.
On May 13 2012 06:16 WhiteDog wrote:
What is sad is that the Europe is a good idea politically. I don't know for you, but I feel like we, europeans, are linked in some way and the european community is, in this regard a good idea.
But I just don't understand why those idiotic politician had to make Europe this way, it's just crushing the weakest economy. After Greece, there is Italy, Spain, France, all in the same boat.
I'm rather a fan of variety inside of Europe, so i would prefer a purely economical union to a political, especially cause i find laws released by the EU to be ridiculous.
The reason for the debt crisis of single countries' becoming a problem for the whole union is that the bonds of treasury of each country undergo a different valutation while the currency is shared by all.
This makes the whole european currency vulnerable through a single country.
But i don't even want to go on, there is something which needs an outrage, and the media coverage seems to have 'forgotten' something:
GOLDMAN SACHS HELPS GREECE TO MASK DEBT
ECB PRESIDENT DRAGHI IS FORMER GOLDMAN SACHS VICE CHAIRMAN
Just lmao. The guy who helped in preparing all this shit is now at the top of the european monetary policy and gets paid for it.
This is so awkwardly weird and disgusting that it just has to crush anyones trust into the competence of EU politics (and the motives of central banks).
I'll gladly take my tinfoil hat rather than trusting my own government.
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Greece will hold a new election after politicians failed to form a government, nine days following an inconclusive vote, prolonging a political crisis that pushes it closer to bankruptcy and exit from the euro.
After a third day of failed talks with political leaders on Tuesday, a spokesman for President Karolos Papoulias said the process of seeking a compromise had been declared a failure and a new vote must be held.
He did not immediately give the date for the new vote, but elections rules suggest it will be in mid-June. A caretaker government would be formed on Wednesday, the spokesman said.
Source
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Moody's is set to 'significantly' downgrade 21 Spanish banks within a week, following a cut of credit ratings on Italian banks, the Spanish economic daily Expansion said on Wednesday.
"Sources in the Spanish financial sector are convinced that the agency will lower in a significant manner the ratings of numerous institutions," said the daily.
"The announcement can come within a week according to market sources," it said, adding that 21 banks would be affected.
The downgrade would deal a further blow to battered Spanish banks, which find it hard to borrow money from other banks because many in Spain are heavily exposed to a real-estate sector that has been in a slump since 2008.
In April, Spanish banks borrowed a record 263.5 billion euros ($339 billion) from the European Central Bank, the lender of last resort to eurozone commercial banks.
On Monday, Moody's slashed its credit ratings by up to four notches for 26 Italian banks, citing their vulnerability to Italy's recession and further trouble in the 17-nation eurozone.
Source
CNBC has said it just happened.
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Am getting sick of it tbh, even though i am living in a country wich isnt hit that hard.
Downgrade wont do much,and was hinted at yesterday already i thought.
Its just symbolical and markets already know that we deep in the proverbial shit.
Annyway:Am getting realy annoyed by the mess they make from this.
This fearmongering and pushing whole countrys to the edge cant be good for annything, still our leaders continue with this silly game.
2 years completely wasted now, a whole generation in the south growing up in this terrible mess, what will come from them?
They will do something soon though, i expect this weekend some announcement.
Cattivik May 13 2012 07:36. Posts 129
Yes am also suprised people actually put up with all this *** while its all out in the open.
The hate against the system is bigger then ever,but we are still to wealthy to revolt.
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On May 18 2012 05:49 Rassy wrote:Am getting sick of it tbh, even though i am living in a country wich isnt hit that hard. This fearmongering and pushing whole countrys to the edge cant be good for annything, still our leaders continue with this silly game. 2 years completely wasted now, a whole generation in the south growing up in this terrible mess, what will come from them? They will do something soon though, i expect this weekend some announcement. Cattivik May 13 2012 07:36. Posts 129 Yes am also suprised people actually put up with all this *** while its all out in the open. The hate against the system is bigger then ever,but we are still to wealthy to revolt.
Totally agree with this statement. I mean if you turn on the news, any politician rushes up to say that if Greece doesnt comply to its drastic cutbacks and stay in the Eurozone, all hell will break lose. As if the Greek people should love the austerity measures and the Euro.
I expect Greece to finally leave Euro because there aint enough political will in the rest of Europe to keep on helping Greece. Greek people will keep on voting for an extreme leftist party (not discussing whether this is good or bad), which actually is understandable from the average Greek point of view. They can rewrite elections after another but the Greek people will not willingly suffer more.
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A crappy decade seems to be coming:
BRUSSELS, May 18 (Reuters) - The European Commission and the European Central Bank are working on an emergency scenario in case Greece has to leave the euro zone, EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht said in an interview published on Friday.
The comments would appear to be the first time that an EU official has confirmed the existence of contingencies being taken for a possible Greek exit from the currency bloc. Speculation has been rife about such plans, but their existence has not been confirmed.
"A year and a half ago there may have been the danger of a domino effect," he said in an interview with the Belgium's Dutch-language newspaper De Standaard.
"But today there are, both within the European Central Bank and the European Commission, services that are working on emergency scenarios in case Greece doesn't make it."
Source
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ATHENS, Greece -- Fitch ratings agency has downgraded five Greek banks, a day after giving the crisis-hit nation the lowest possible grade for a country that is not in default.
A Fitch statement Friday says it gave National Bank of Greece, Eurobank, Alpha, Piraeus and Agricultural Bank of Greece a CCC rating, down from B-.
Fitch notes that major Greek banks have not yet received capital injections earmarked for them under the country's latest international bailout.
On Thursday, Fitch downgraded Greece's sovereign rating to CCC.
Source
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Get ready to watch EURUSD to go from 1.2780 to 1.2000.
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On May 19 2012 05:03 DigiGnar wrote:
Get ready to watch EURUSD to go from 1.2780 to 1.2000.
Considering the USD is around 1:1 with CAD and AUD, measuring the Euro against an already devalued and volatile currency isn't that telling. Not even last year it was up almost 1:1.25. 10 years ago it was even better. The dollar is down about 400% compared to the 80's.
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My chart begs to differ.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8IQwI.png)
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Euro has to go 1.20 and eventually i think we will see parity again.
Its an economic battle between the usa and germany.
Usa is a complete mess and can only survive by printing monney.
They can do this for a verry long time (because oil is in dollars and their economy is verry productive) but at one point they will run into trouble (inflation) because the dollar eventually will strongly devaluate.
The euro is a strong competitor to the dollar, as long as europe keeps the euro strong and the monney suply tight ,the usa is limited in its possibilitys to print extra dollars, because the dollar would become to weak against the euro.
What the usa wants is us in europe to start printing euros, so that they can keep printing dollars without running into huge trouble.
Usa is trying everything to make the crisis in europe worse, so that we at one point have no other way out then to start printing monney.
This is whats going on behind the scenes i think.(simplified it a bit )
I hope germany wins, though atm it looks like the usa and its southern european alies will win , expect europe to start printing monney verry soon (qe, ltro and what not)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4023794/Britains-borders-close-if-euro-goes.html
Lol the sun.
Europes banks cant run out of monney, one small country can be allowed to fail but not the whole zone.
The whole population would revolt when they are, when it comes this far germany will surrender and ecb will simply print euros, or we will get a revolution.
Have the feeling the bottom is near, the famous hoax intervieuw with the london trader talking about the eurozone beeing toast and billions of people loosing their safings came out the day wich was the bottom 2011
This is the same exageration and fearmongering, maybe 1-5 more bad days but thats it.
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On May 13 2012 07:36 Cattivik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 07:09 Rassy wrote:
How are your safings converted and what happens to the huge amount of euro debt both companys and governments have?
The monetary reform in Germany of 1948 caused an exchange of old money with new at a ratio of 10:1 , assets such as stocks and bonds were exchanged at a ratio of 1:1. Personally, i'm going for stocks cause German BoTs are already 'oversaturated', some people even speak of a bubble, but they are considered the safest. Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 06:16 WhiteDog wrote:
What is sad is that the Europe is a good idea politically. I don't know for you, but I feel like we, europeans, are linked in some way and the european community is, in this regard a good idea.
But I just don't understand why those idiotic politician had to make Europe this way, it's just crushing the weakest economy. After Greece, there is Italy, Spain, France, all in the same boat. I'm rather a fan of variety inside of Europe, so i would prefer a purely economical union to a political, especially cause i find laws released by the EU to be ridiculous. The reason for the debt crisis of single countries' becoming a problem for the whole union is that the bonds of treasury of each country undergo a different valutation while the currency is shared by all. This makes the whole european currency vulnerable through a single country. But i don't even want to go on, there is something which needs an outrage, and the media coverage seems to have 'forgotten' something: GOLDMAN SACHS HELPS GREECE TO MASK DEBTECB PRESIDENT DRAGHI IS FORMER GOLDMAN SACHS VICE CHAIRMANJust lmao. The guy who helped in preparing all this shit is now at the top of the european monetary policy and gets paid for it. This is so awkwardly weird and disgusting that it just has to crush anyones trust into the competence of EU politics (and the motives of central banks). I'll gladly take my tinfoil hat rather than trusting my own government.
There is no opposition between the european variety and the idea that we all are part of one community...
The main problem is not how the debt crisis is spreading itself within the EU, but how the EU as it is made today almost made that crisis.
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A Greek-German row has broken out after Greece's government spokesman said Chancellor Angela Merkel raised the idea of Athens holding a referendum about its eurozone membership next month, which Berlin vehemently denied.
The confusion arose after a telephone call earlier on Friday between Merkel and Greek President Karolos Papoulias, in which Merkel conveyed her hope for a functioning government in Greece after repeat elections on June 17.
Merkel's comments were first referred to by Dimitris Tsiodras, Greek government spokesman, in a statement: "[Merkel] also conveyed to the president thoughts on holding a referendum along with the elections, with the question of to what extent Greek citizens wish to remain in the eurozone."
Greece is set to hold elections on June 17 to end a political deadlock after a previous vote on May 6 produced a hung parliament.
The rise of parties opposed to austerity commitments, made to secure vital international rescue loans, has raised fears that if anti-bailout parties prevail the country could be forced to leave the euro.
Tsiodras said a referendum was "obviously" out of the question, as it falls outside the jurisdiction of Greece's newly appointed caretaker government.
Source
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EPT
