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Humanity need to reach the next paradigm, beyond money, and there's only two way to do it.
By intelligence and acceptation or by force and war.We choose economic war.
Euro is a tool for Germany and France and Netherlands to conquer the south europe.
I've been 3 times in Greece, 1993, 1999, 2003, and i can assure you that's the developpement by this period in Greece was very impressive.
Specially in 2003 just before Olympics games in Athens.
Prices just explodes and people gets better salaries:+120% since Euro.
In Paros, the largest cyclade island in 1993, they didn't had roads, 10 years after in 2003 you had nice houses constructed in many parts.
In greece you have about 8 millions houses i guess, and a million was constructed without permission.
Seems they'll never pay taxes, same for swimming pools.There's no land registry in Greece they don't even know which part belongs to who.
Greece have the 4th civil marine in the world.They don't pay taxes.
I really love Greece and greek people but you have to admit that there's a huge problem in your organisation and have to be careful because if germans don't buy your islands, china will.
Like many people said before, it's not a problem of debit or a problem of money.It's a problem of being able to to pay back to banks.You need to be organise and serious if you want to fuck with germans :D.Like in football.
They won't allow you to get out of Euro, nobody will get out of this currency, you have to do a revolution for that.Because it's the tool to conquer.
Conclusion:Go working, pay taxes, be serious and everything will be ok.
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Everything will go down soon.
The EU is trying to "help" Greece. How are they trying to do this? They are trying to help them by borrowing them money and asking them to pay more and more interest. That's right, they're trying to make money from "helping" Greece.
Greece is just the first of many. Portugal, Spain, Ireland and especially Italy are in HUGE trouble and will soon follow Greece. There are enormous bubbles in China, the USA, everywhere.
We will all witness the great collapse of our economic system. The collapse of a foolish ponzi scheme, a foolish structure of society. Money and it's system(s) are totally disconnected from what really matters, and a huge collapse is inevitable. First, it will be terrible. Later, more people will understand what the problems are, and the world will change for the good. We need a revolution to escape this paradigm, and everything will be so, so much better on this world for everybody.
Trolling? Lying? Conspiracy theories? Not at all. Soon it will begin. Watch the news, or even better, try to read reliable news on the internet that is not the mainstream news.
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I think the financial and economic system we have is just fucked up. In favor of the banks and the rich industrialists who have too much influence on what happens inside a country. Politicians are tendentially the long arm of the industry. Banks are treated like a holy cow that should never be slaughtered even if they're deathly ill. It's a pseudo-democracy.
Once in the west there was the problem of the churches meddling in politics and that's why we had the separation of the church from the state. We need to separate the industry from politics for more democracy.
Election campaign money comes in large part from donations from the industry. Eliminating that would be a good first step. Anything that prevents the industry from influencing the outcome of elections.
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In the meantime, three italian magistrates are interrogating and acquiring documentation to try and get to the root of the speculation that occured last week and is still ongoing. Should they get there, some very rich people will not be allowed to enter Italy (or they would be arrested) at the very least.
I don't know why Germans think they work more or better and have to pay others, but i think this way of thinking is behind the failure of the euro, there's no room for political progress on europan unification if the people still think that way. The euro's value is still too high, and is killing exports in those southern countries. Even allowing the various bonds to have independent interest rates is fundamentally wrong, this means the monetary union is only halfway done, and halfway done things don't tend to work out well.
For the euro to continue, as i said earlier, there needs to be a debt unification, no more spreads, it's ok if each country pays his own debt without having other countries pay for them, but this should be done internally. From the outside, there should only be eurobonds, that would also represent the largest bond market in the world, and would be immune to speculation. This is just the minimum advancement required to keep going, then others should follow, like it has been suggested, we should get a real european government that can spend money on infrastructure.
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The EURO continues to struggle:
A senior investment strategist for a large firm wrote in an internal report to investors: "Greece appears beyond repair, Italy is on the brink and the chances are that the euro might be no more very soon."
This is a financial strategist, not a government official. I don't know if that makes his statement more or less credible. Regardless, it seems like the financial situation in Greece, Italy, Spain and the EU as a whole continues to be very shaky. Let's hope for the best.
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On July 19 2011 08:13 Ganondorf wrote:
I don't know why Germans think they work more or better and have to pay others, but i think this way of thinking is behind the failure of the euro, there's no room for political progress on europan unification if the people still think that way.
not the german people decide who buys their product at what price, they just make stuff and put it in the market.
The customers decide.
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On July 19 2011 08:13 Ganondorf wrote:
In the meantime, three italian magistrates are interrogating and acquiring documentation to try and get to the root of the speculation that occured last week and is still ongoing. Should they get there, some very rich people will not be allowed to enter Italy (or they would be arrested) at the very least.
I don't know why Germans think they work more or better and have to pay others, but i think this way of thinking is behind the failure of the euro, there's no room for political progress on europan unification if the people still think that way. The euro's value is still too high, and is killing exports in those southern countries. Even allowing the various bonds to have independent interest rates is fundamentally wrong, this means the monetary union is only halfway done, and halfway done things don't tend to work out well.
For the euro to continue, as i said earlier, there needs to be a debt unification, no more spreads, it's ok if each country pays his own debt without having other countries pay for them, but this should be done internally. From the outside, there should only be eurobonds, that would also represent the largest bond market in the world, and would be immune to speculation. This is just the minimum advancement required to keep going, then others should follow, like it has been suggested, we should get a real european government that can spend money on infrastructure.
Fun thing is, Germany itself is probably the most federalstic country in the EU and it's completly normal that weaker "Bundeslander/states" get money from the richer (it's the same in Switzerland... It's just necessary in a federalistic "state/union", else the diffrences will become bigger and bigger).
Why is there nothing like this in the whole EU? Or not to that extent?
The EU/EURO will never work whiteout such a system. Yeah, the rich EU-Countries will have to pay money to the weak ones... But how else is something like the EU/EURO supposed to EVER work?
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I think there is a huge diffrence from between what we are allowed to know, and waht really happens. In a way, i think we have lived in a economical recession for a long time, we just have not noticed it.
Its hard to say how this really works, at least in the detailed mode.
I do think however that its something quite scary, i mean, after big ressecions we get big wars. Maybe we like to think we wont be so stupid to make the same mistakes as our ancestors made, but i still dont like where all this is heading.
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On July 16 2011 23:19 Parj wrote:
Humanity need to reach the next paradigm, beyond money, and there's only two way to do it.
By intelligence and acceptation or by force and war.We choose economic war.
Euro is a tool for Germany and France and Netherlands to conquer the south europe.
I've been 3 times in Greece, 1993, 1999, 2003, and i can assure you that's the developpement by this period in Greece was very impressive.
Specially in 2003 just before Olympics games in Athens.
Prices just explodes and people gets better salaries:+120% since Euro.
In Paros, the largest cyclade island in 1993, they didn't had roads, 10 years after in 2003 you had nice houses constructed in many parts.
In greece you have about 8 millions houses i guess, and a million was constructed without permission.
Seems they'll never pay taxes, same for swimming pools.There's no land registry in Greece they don't even know which part belongs to who.
Greece have the 4th civil marine in the world.They don't pay taxes.
I really love Greece and greek people but you have to admit that there's a huge problem in your organisation and have to be careful because if germans don't buy your islands, china will.
Like many people said before, it's not a problem of debit or a problem of money.It's a problem of being able to to pay back to banks.You need to be organise and serious if you want to fuck with germans :D.Like in football.
They won't allow you to get out of Euro, nobody will get out of this currency, you have to do a revolution for that.Because it's the tool to conquer.
Conclusion:Go working, pay taxes, be serious and everything will be ok.
dude noone is going to buy our islands. People fought and died for those islands to take em back noone is going to sell it just like that. There is no way someone will allow greek islands to be sold to anyone. Trust me on this
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Zurich15366 Posts
On July 19 2011 21:40 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 08:13 Ganondorf wrote:
In the meantime, three italian magistrates are interrogating and acquiring documentation to try and get to the root of the speculation that occured last week and is still ongoing. Should they get there, some very rich people will not be allowed to enter Italy (or they would be arrested) at the very least.
I don't know why Germans think they work more or better and have to pay others, but i think this way of thinking is behind the failure of the euro, there's no room for political progress on europan unification if the people still think that way. The euro's value is still too high, and is killing exports in those southern countries. Even allowing the various bonds to have independent interest rates is fundamentally wrong, this means the monetary union is only halfway done, and halfway done things don't tend to work out well.
For the euro to continue, as i said earlier, there needs to be a debt unification, no more spreads, it's ok if each country pays his own debt without having other countries pay for them, but this should be done internally. From the outside, there should only be eurobonds, that would also represent the largest bond market in the world, and would be immune to speculation. This is just the minimum advancement required to keep going, then others should follow, like it has been suggested, we should get a real european government that can spend money on infrastructure. Fun thing is, Germany itself is probably the most federalstic country in the EU and it's completly normal that weaker "Bundeslander/states" get money from the richer (it's the same in Switzerland... It's just necessary in a federalistic "state/union", else the diffrences will become bigger and bigger). Why is there nothing like this in the whole EU? Or not to that extent? The EU/EURO will never work whiteout such a system. Yeah, the rich EU-Countries will have to pay money to the weak ones... But how else is something like the EU/EURO supposed to EVER work?
Part of the reason the German public is protesting transfers to other union states is precisely that the opinions on our federal transfer union are mixed at best. Just currently we have a heated debate about states financing their public projects with huge deficits while "better off" states who don't run similarly expensive programs need to transfer to come up for the debt of the weaker ones.
It's basically the exact same discussion on a smaller scale, with the same arguments pro and against.
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Thats probably true (well, i'm sure you know it), but i doubt anyone is talking about abandoning these payements alltogether...
Forcing the "poor" states acting a little more like there are actually financially situated or at least hindering them from spending far to much willingly staying "low" is a far cry from that  .
In switzerland there are similar debates (but mainly because smaller cantons profit hugely from other cantons industry/airports/"stuff" keeping their own taxes very low while the "big ones" pay huge amounts for said infrastructure... But thats more a problem with Switzerland and it's cantons being so small  ).
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On July 19 2011 21:53 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 21:40 Velr wrote:On July 19 2011 08:13 Ganondorf wrote:
In the meantime, three italian magistrates are interrogating and acquiring documentation to try and get to the root of the speculation that occured last week and is still ongoing. Should they get there, some very rich people will not be allowed to enter Italy (or they would be arrested) at the very least.
I don't know why Germans think they work more or better and have to pay others, but i think this way of thinking is behind the failure of the euro, there's no room for political progress on europan unification if the people still think that way. The euro's value is still too high, and is killing exports in those southern countries. Even allowing the various bonds to have independent interest rates is fundamentally wrong, this means the monetary union is only halfway done, and halfway done things don't tend to work out well.
For the euro to continue, as i said earlier, there needs to be a debt unification, no more spreads, it's ok if each country pays his own debt without having other countries pay for them, but this should be done internally. From the outside, there should only be eurobonds, that would also represent the largest bond market in the world, and would be immune to speculation. This is just the minimum advancement required to keep going, then others should follow, like it has been suggested, we should get a real european government that can spend money on infrastructure. Fun thing is, Germany itself is probably the most federalstic country in the EU and it's completly normal that weaker "Bundeslander/states" get money from the richer (it's the same in Switzerland... It's just necessary in a federalistic "state/union", else the diffrences will become bigger and bigger). Why is there nothing like this in the whole EU? Or not to that extent? The EU/EURO will never work whiteout such a system. Yeah, the rich EU-Countries will have to pay money to the weak ones... But how else is something like the EU/EURO supposed to EVER work? Part of the reason the German public is protesting transfers to other union states is precisely that the opinions on our federal transfer union are mixed at best. Just currently we have a heated debate about states financing their public projects with huge deficits while "better off" states who don't run similarly expensive programs need to transfer to come up for the debt of the weaker ones. It's basically the exact same discussion on a smaller scale, with the same arguments pro and against.
I agree. Also let's not forget that a country doesn't need to be part of any international organization or common currency to profit from its neighbours, as the example Switzerland shows.
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Zurich15366 Posts
On July 19 2011 21:59 Velr wrote:
Thats probably true (well, i'm sure you know it), but i doubt anyone is talking about abandoning these payements alltogether...
No, that is exactly what the debate is about. The wealthier states ask the weaker ones to cut into their public programs or to stop the transfer union alltogether.
It really is the exact same debate.
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On July 19 2011 21:01 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote:The EURO continues to struggle:A senior investment strategist for a large firm wrote in an internal report to investors: "Greece appears beyond repair, Italy is on the brink and the chances are that the euro might be no more very soon." This is a financial strategist, not a government official. I don't know if that makes his statement more or less credible. Regardless, it seems like the financial situation in Greece, Italy, Spain and the EU as a whole continues to be very shaky. Let's hope for the best.
*Write "internal" memo
*Leak memo
*Cause market movements
*Profit
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On July 19 2011 21:01 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote:The EURO continues to struggle:A senior investment strategist for a large firm wrote in an internal report to investors: "Greece appears beyond repair, Italy is on the brink and the chances are that the euro might be no more very soon." This is a financial strategist, not a government official. I don't know if that makes his statement more or less credible. Regardless, it seems like the financial situation in Greece, Italy, Spain and the EU as a whole continues to be very shaky. Let's hope for the best.
Greece two-year bonds (bloomberg)
Greece 2-year yield is now nearly 39% after raising by 2.9% today. Less than a week ago it was just around 30%.
I don't think this constitutes a "very shaky" state. This is pretty much a definition of a collapse.
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On July 20 2011 00:45 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 21:01 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote:The EURO continues to struggle:A senior investment strategist for a large firm wrote in an internal report to investors: "Greece appears beyond repair, Italy is on the brink and the chances are that the euro might be no more very soon." This is a financial strategist, not a government official. I don't know if that makes his statement more or less credible. Regardless, it seems like the financial situation in Greece, Italy, Spain and the EU as a whole continues to be very shaky. Let's hope for the best. Greece two-year bonds (bloomberg)Greece 2-year yield is now nearly 39% after raising by 2.9% today. Less than a week ago it was just around 30%. I don't think this constitutes a "very shaky" state. This is pretty much a definition of a collapse.
It did say broken beyond repair and EU was Shaky.
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Let's see what greeces GDP is : Total $305.415 billion
Now let's see germany Total $3.315 trillion
If greece does go bankrupt it will mean a "mild" case of inflation for the rest of the EU, not even close to what the economic crysis born out of the US bubble was. If you say the more advanced countries are basicly taking over the smaller ones with the euro, maybe you're right. If you say the euro is going down...lol get real.
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the danger is the resulting default of other PIIGS countrys..
and when italy or spain defaults it's game over because france and german bonds would go down as well if they would save them.
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It's possible but unlikely, and even then the euro wouldn't be the cause and it's death would be to nobody's advantage.
You need to remember the only reason they're in trouble to beginwith is because they claim a lifestyle they can't afford.
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EPT
