The European Debt Crisis and the Euro - Page 26

On May 11 2011 05:42 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I think he felt that way about fiat currency in general and at that time the U.S. was still a agriculture economy. I think it is quite possible that the founding fathers would change their minds if they had lived for another hundred years.

10,000th post on this -.-

On May 11 2011 05:19 maartendq wrote:

I'm almost certain you voted for some kind of populistic extreme right party that won the elections two weeks ago.. You know, the Finnish version of the Tea Party.. Those True Finns..

So what you're saying is that whenever a country is doing horrible, the EU should just drop and and leave its citizens to rot?

That's sounds like a really humane thing to do!

On May 11 2011 02:30 Gracksaurusrex wrote:
The problem with Greece is that taxes to their people are almost optional

They have a serious problem when it comes to tax inforcing

On May 11 2011 06:19 andrewlt wrote:
As somebody who migrated from the Philippines to the US, my take is that Greek workers have productivity close to Filipino workers but have pay and benefits closer to that of Americans/French/Germans/etc. It combines what Americans hate about French socialism with what French hate about American capitalism and mixes it with third world levels of corruption and tax evasion.

It's kinda funny reading the articles about it. Greece has low effective tax levels like the US, partly because of rampant tax evasion. Its workers work few hours and have lots of vacation time like French workers. They get socialized benefits like Scandinavians. They party like Brazilians do. They love luxury and brand goods like East Asians do. And they get to retire at 60. And they managed to fund this lifestyle because they were allowed to borrow money at roughly the same rate as Germany for a long time.

On May 11 2011 08:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:


That doesn't sound like a problem.

Total private+public debt owed to non-residents of Greece is 165% of GDP. Total private +public debt of Germany owed to non-residents is (we all expect that to be low, right?) ..... 143% !!!! For UK its 400% of GDP! For France its 188%!, for Luxembourg its freaking 4600% . As you can see,even when Greece is DEEP into economical problems, the other "strong" countries have a ton of problems also. The TOTAL private+public debt is even worse for those countries compared to Greece but I cant find those figures online(I only have them in some of my economic books)

Barring a political accident, a new EU/IMF bailout package for Athens -- barely a year after an initial 110 billion euro ($158 billion) rescue -- is likely to be agreed by the end of June, several officials involved in the negotiations say.

Financial markets seem to believe that and have begun to lower Greek bond yields slightly from stratospheric levels.

In some ways, the deal will be tougher on Greece than the last one; it will give creditors a supervisory role over the privatization of Greek state assets that will intrude on national sovereignty, officials say.

It will probably also involve "voluntary" commitments by private investors to maintain their exposure to Greece, the officials say, although this remains highly sensitive.

The European Central Bank and credit rating agencies have warned that the European Union would be playing with fire if it tinkered, even on a voluntary basis, with the terms of existing bonds. That could trigger a chain of downgrades and defaults.

Privately, one ECB source predicted the central bank would ultimately acquiesce if banks volunteered to roll over credit to Greece. But before the new deal for Greece is reached, officials may continue to clash publicly over this and other issues.

On May 11 2011 05:42 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I think he felt that way about fiat currency in general and at that time the U.S. was still a agriculture economy. I think it is quite possible that the founding fathers would change their minds if they had lived for another hundred years.

10,000th post on this -.-

On June 03 2011 11:21 Wegandi wrote:


I am sure the Continental had nothing whatsoever to do with the country wanting their money to be backed by a commodity and those on the Anti-Federalist side fighting to prevent a Central Bank which the purpose of is always as an expedient to Government growth and power and massive Corruption. There's also a reason most of the founders were vehemently anti-Central Banks because they saw the destruction, corruption, and magnanimous power the English Central Bank wrought. They wanted the people to control the money, not the Government, and not a Central Bank.

I am quite certain if the Founders were alive today they would re-establish Committees of Correspondences and Safety and the Sons of Liberty and restart the revolution. NSL's as Writs of Assistance, Income Tax and tax rates for most hovering over 50%, a Corporatist economy (Hello there East India), Executive turning into King, and endless expansive undeclared Wars. I could go on, but it is hard for Classical Liberals to not look at the US as one giant expansive tyranny -- because it is.

On March 01 2010 15:50 Rothbardian wrote:
In fact, deflation is far better than inflation, especially so since inflation is hideously regressive (Ergo, theft).

On June 03 2011 22:37 TMStarcraft wrote:

Not to disregard the rest of your post, but can you explain why deflation is good? From what I understand, deflation is to be avoided at all costs because:

a) Deflation = the value of money increasing thus,

b) People can purchase more goods & services with less money

c) Providers of services and manufacturers of goods lose profits because their salable assets are now cheaper to obtain (so they need to either produce more/provide more services in order to maintain previous revenue margins, or cut costs)

d) Due to the drop in revenue and overall profits, cost cutting measures are introduced (most likely in the form of redundancies)

e) Unemployment rises, less disposable income overall, less purchases, revenues decrease further, vicious cycle

Am I mistaken with this line of thought? I've never heard of anyone in favour of deflation before.

ATHENS/NEW YORK (Reuters) - Greece became the lowest-rated country in the world in the rankings of Standard & Poor's on Monday, putting it below Ecuador, Jamaica, Pakistan and Grenada.

The rating agency cut Greece three notches and warned it would view a likely debt restructuring as a default.

This was the latest blow for the country's Socialist government, which is scrambling to push a new austerity package through parliament to clinch continued funding under a year-old bailout plan despite rising public discontent.

Barely a year after Athens was granted a first 110-billion-euro aid package, the European Union, the IMF and the European Central Bank are working on a second funding deal.

Meanwhile, European banks holding Greek debt appear to be moving toward agreement on buying new bonds to replace those they hold that reach maturity.

S&P said European policymakers looked increasingly likely to impose a restructuring of Greece's debt -- either via a bond swap or by extending bond maturities -- as a means of having the private holders of Greek bonds share the burden.