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The same as a year ago.
Greece will be saved no matter what.
What i find funny is... The US is in just as much trouble as the EU... But the rating agencies are US biased... Go figure.
I doubt that Spain will fall, their total debt isn't that high, Portugal is not exactly "big" so that shouldn't be to big of a problem eiter... But Italy on the other hand is scary...
Oh, Vacations get really cheap for Swiss people :p.
1$ is atm 0.80 Swissfranks (all time low).
1€ is atm 1.20 Swissfranks (all time low).
Gonna visit some cities this year ^^.
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In the long run the Euro will be fine. There are plenty of strong economies backing it (Germany in particular) and Greece certainly not big enough to topple it on its own. If Spain/Italy tumble in a domino effect then things could get really bad but right now it looks like European policy makers won't let it get that far. What Europe really needs is a stronger oversight arm to tackle corruption and idiotic waste in its member states. I know that won't be popular with many (oh noes, national sovereignty!) but it would do much to stabilise the region and ensure strong and more equal economic growth throughout the Eurozone.
I also think that the bastards at GoldmanSachs that did the accounting magic for Greece to hide its problems from the EU should be tried for treason and probably executed or at least thrown in prison for the rest of their lives. Instead they no doubt enjoy some nice multi-million dollar bonuses. That makes me sick.
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What makes me angry is that the ratings companys that rate Portugal, ireland, Island, spain and italy has almost trash and Greece has worse then trash are the same shitty companys that rated Mr. Madoff has AAA+, never saw the subprime bubble and rated AIG and all other americans company AAA+!!
Guess what they don't know shit and they are slaves of wall street! They made lots of mistakes but people still care about them and give them credit! Fuck those companys they are lobbists and completely biased to protect USA interests.. They will fuck in EU anytime they can!
If we had a strong political structure we would just create our own and outlaw the american ratings agencies! And btw rating agencies should be annexed to a central bank.. not to private companys and lobbyism
With Madoff it was just 50 billion dollars.. small things of course.. no people were fired and those companys remain competent has always..
This is what shows the world that european union is weak because we can't get along! Germany thinks greece and Portugal for instance don't deserve their help but they never said anything about our state before because it was good for them.. everything they produce they sell it to us and they abuse our economic benefits to install factorys in our countrys paying way less then they had to pay in germany and less taxes and when things get a little tought they bail and put thousands on unemployment! They stop agriculture in our countrys to sell us theirs.
The world is unfair and fucked up! It's true our politicians suck and we have a culture for corruption.. but don't you ever think we deserve this because our people work less and don't deserve the social benefits we fought for ages!
Germany is a great country we all know that and so is france but don't you ever believe you would be better before the EU! Portugal was growing more then 20% before it entered EU and then we became a "satelite" country where you would pay us to produce less and eventually stagnated...
If you guys want to end this.. just end it but what i would want is a strong european union instead of a germany/france/uk and it's 20 buddys!
The world is unfair we all know that but come on.. sending countrys to poverty for some more bucks?
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On June 28 2011 19:40 Velr wrote:
The same as a year ago.
Greece will be saved no matter what.
What i find funny is... The US is in just as much trouble as the EU... But the rating agencies are US biased... Go figure.
I doubt that Spain will fall, their total debt isn't that high, Portugal is not exactly "big" so that shouldn't be to big of a problem eiter... But Italy on the other hand is scary...
Oh, Vacations get really cheap for Swiss people :p.
1$ is atm 0.80 Swissfranks (all time low).
1€ is atm 1.20 Swissfranks (all time low).
Gonna visit some cities this year ^^.
You mean the rating agencies which not 4 months ago changed America's credit outlook from stable to bad? Those are the ones that are biased?
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On June 28 2011 19:40 Velr wrote:
The same as a year ago.
Greece will be saved no matter what.
What i find funny is... The US is in just as much trouble as the EU... But the rating agencies are US biased... Go figure.
I doubt that Spain will fall, their total debt isn't that high, Portugal is not exactly "big" so that shouldn't be to big of a problem eiter... But Italy on the other hand is scary...
Oh, Vacations get really cheap for Swiss people :p.
1$ is atm 0.80 Swissfranks (all time low).
1€ is atm 1.20 Swissfranks (all time low).
Gonna visit some cities this year ^^.
What is funny is to think that something like 5 years ago 1€ was 1,56 CHF and 1$ was 1,2CHF. It is time to buy stuff online ahah
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On June 28 2011 19:55 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 19:40 Velr wrote:
The same as a year ago.
Greece will be saved no matter what.
What i find funny is... The US is in just as much trouble as the EU... But the rating agencies are US biased... Go figure.
I doubt that Spain will fall, their total debt isn't that high, Portugal is not exactly "big" so that shouldn't be to big of a problem eiter... But Italy on the other hand is scary...
Oh, Vacations get really cheap for Swiss people :p.
1$ is atm 0.80 Swissfranks (all time low).
1€ is atm 1.20 Swissfranks (all time low).
Gonna visit some cities this year ^^. You mean the rating agencies which not 4 months ago changed America's credit outlook from stable to bad? Those are the ones that are biased?
You for basically no reason, except being the US/$, still got your AAA rating.
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On June 28 2011 19:21 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote:
So, what kind of coverage is this issue getting in Europe//UK?
What kind of predictions are you guys making for the future of Greece? And the future of the EU?
The coverage is insane. You can't open a newspaper without reading an article about this (well, that makes no sense, you can't open a newspaper without SEEING an article).
But no matter how well it is covered, it's extremely difficult to understand it when you're not an economist.
All I know: things are looking dire for Greece and very uncertain for the EU.
If the EU fails, pre-WWII-circumstances are far from being unlikely.
I don't want to live in a state of perputal European struggle...
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It's not just Greece or Euro that is going down, it's the entire capitalism empire. Soon after Greece, you'll have Portugal, Ireland, Spain, and all the others. We simply can't live forever making loans.
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On June 28 2011 20:31 paulinepain wrote:
It's not just Greece or Euro that is going down, it's the entire capitalism empire. Soon after Greece, you'll have Portugal, Ireland, Spain, and all the others. We simply can't live forever making loans.
I just hope it takes a couple more years, I don't want to experience any major war.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina114 Posts
@ OP:
Please edit the link, article isn't there anymore.
I found it quoted here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=389070
Feb. 28 (Bloomberg) -- The euro is being “severely tested” and “may not survive” the Greek deficit crisis, billionaire investor George Soros said.
The European currency’s construction is “flawed” because there is “a common central bank, but you don’t have a common treasury,” Soros said on CNN’s “Fareed Zacharia GPS” program.
“The exchange rate is fixed. If a country gets into difficulty, it’s can’t depreciate its currency, which would be the normal way,” Soros said. “And it’s not getting the kind of transfer payments that American states get if they happen to be doing worse than other states.”
Greece’s debt has put the euro on its longest losing streak against the dollar since November 2008. Investors have also grown concerned about budget deficits in other euro-region countries such as Spain.
Soros predicted Greece will survive its fiscal crisis, “but it still leaves Spain and the other countries” facing similar difficulties. “And so either Europe now takes the institutional measures that are needed to make up for the deficiency or, in fact, it may not survive,” he said of the euro.
Writing in the Financial Times last week, Soros said that if European Union member-countries don’t take the next step toward political union, the common currency may disintegrate.
While the latest meeting of European finance ministers pledged to safeguard financial stability in the euro area as a whole, no mechanism has been set up for doing that, Soros wrote.
Sell Eurobonds
The best solution for Greece would be for EU countries to sell eurobonds to refinance 75 percent or so of its maturing debt, provided it meets its targets, leaving the country to finance its remaining needs as best it may, Soros said in the newspaper.
Harvard University Professor Martin Feldstein, who warned in 1997 that European monetary union would spark greater political conflict, said Feb. 12 that Greece’s fiscal woes expose the fault lines of the single currency project.
A day after EU leaders promised “determined and coordinated action” to help Greece control its budget deficit, Feldstein said the weakness of having a single monetary policy and different fiscal policies is being revealed.
Higher Taxes
EU finance ministers have told the Greek government to be prepared at a March 16 review to adopt higher value-added taxes, a new levy on luxury goods, increased taxes on energy products and cuts in capital spending if Greece can’t show sufficient progress in bringing down the deficit, which at 12.7 percent of GDP last year was the EU’s highest.
With EU Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn flying to Athens tonight for talks, German lawmakers say euro-area officials are crafting a plan to grant Greece about 25 billion euros ($34 billion) in aid should the need arise, possibly by using state-owned lenders such as Germany’s KfW Group to buy its debt.
Soros also endorsed a proposed tax on financial transactions, called a Tobin tax after the late U.S. economist James Tobin, a Nobel laureate who proposed a surcharge on currency trading to deter speculation.
“Why shouldn’t those transactions provide the revenues to make up the losses,” Soros said. “I think it’s a natural source of revenues.”
Soros, who supported Barack Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign, said he’s “not satisfied” with the job Obama has done. “The solution he found to the financial crisis, which was to effectively bail out the banks and allow them to earn their way out of the hole, was, in my opinion, not the right solution,” Soros said.
“He should have compulsorily replaced the capital that was lost,” Soros said. “This is what they call nationalizing the banks. And he made the political decision that that is un- American, will not be accepted.”
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On June 28 2011 20:32 caruso wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 20:31 paulinepain wrote:
It's not just Greece or Euro that is going down, it's the entire capitalism empire. Soon after Greece, you'll have Portugal, Ireland, Spain, and all the others. We simply can't live forever making loans. I just hope it takes a couple more years, I don't want to experience any major war.
Time will tell, but an open war seems very unlikely in western europe imo, unless things go really really really bad...
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On June 28 2011 20:31 paulinepain wrote:
It's not just Greece or Euro that is going down, it's the entire capitalism empire. Soon after Greece, you'll have Portugal, Ireland, Spain, and all the others. We simply can't live forever making loans. And what does this have to do with capitalism?
All I see is a bunch of countries with high taxes, astronomic debts and overpowered cost ineffective public sectors. Looks more like socialism to me.
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Croatia is "soon" to join EU and all our politicians have their whole campaigns based around this. Of course none of the newspapers and TV stations talk about this whole problem around Euro.
We are being kept in the dark what is really happening while politicians and media tell us each day that this is the only choice and that all will be better once we join LOL
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Zurich15365 Posts
On June 28 2011 19:57 Sated wrote:
And after all the flak we got from the Eurozone for choosing not to join their ridiculous currency, Britain is proven right.
Trying to have a single currency over such a large area, especially when the countries in that area have vastly different economies and workforces/industries was a ridiculous idea. It's impossible to set standard interest rates etc. that satisfy each country due to how different they all are. I don't know why this was ever thought to be a good idea.
Well in terms of debt you guys are worse off than the Eurozone so thanks a lot for not joining!
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On June 28 2011 20:31 paulinepain wrote:
It's not just Greece or Euro that is going down, it's the entire capitalism empire. Soon after Greece, you'll have Portugal, Ireland, Spain, and all the others. We simply can't live forever making loans.
Let me guess, you are one of those nutters who thinks that a debt fuelled fiat currency cannot work and that returning to the gold standard is a sensible option? At least it sounds like that is what you are saying, in which case you are a complete moron. The system isn't fundamentally broken, its just going through a regularly scheduled adjustment period (recession) which will hurt some people in short run before returning to normal. It really isn't the apocalypse.
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On June 28 2011 20:37 Sumsi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 20:31 paulinepain wrote:
It's not just Greece or Euro that is going down, it's the entire capitalism empire. Soon after Greece, you'll have Portugal, Ireland, Spain, and all the others. We simply can't live forever making loans. And what does this have to do with capitalism? All I see is a bunch of countries with high taxes, astronomic debts and overpowered cost ineffective public sectors. Looks more like socialism to me.
Well it's state capitalism. Poorly managed state capitalism.
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On June 28 2011 20:45 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 19:57 Sated wrote:
And after all the flak we got from the Eurozone for choosing not to join their ridiculous currency, Britain is proven right.
Trying to have a single currency over such a large area, especially when the countries in that area have vastly different economies and workforces/industries was a ridiculous idea. It's impossible to set standard interest rates etc. that satisfy each country due to how different they all are. I don't know why this was ever thought to be a good idea. Well in terms of debt you guys are worse off than the Eurozone so thanks a lot for not joining!
I couldn't agree more, just imagine how much worse the situation could be if the UK would have joined.
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On June 28 2011 20:43 -Archangel- wrote:
Croatia is "soon" to join EU and all our politicians have their whole campaigns based around this. Of course none of the newspapers and TV stations talk about this whole problem around Euro.
We are being kept in the dark what is really happening while politicians and media tell us each day that this is the only choice and that all will be better once we join LOL
The EU and the Euro are two different things.
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EPT
