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Secession in the United States - Page 3

Forum Index > General Forum
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Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
November 12 2009 03:57 GMT
#41
On November 12 2009 12:51 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:44 EAGER-beaver wrote:
On November 12 2009 12:41 koreasilver wrote:
Secession would be hilarious.

Do it.


As long as we don't get stuck with detroit I'm cool with it.

lol according to that Russian, Canada gets stuck with all the shitty states.



fuck you bitch. Michigan > canada
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 12 2009 04:00 GMT
#42
On November 12 2009 12:57 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:51 koreasilver wrote:
On November 12 2009 12:44 EAGER-beaver wrote:
On November 12 2009 12:41 koreasilver wrote:
Secession would be hilarious.

Do it.


As long as we don't get stuck with detroit I'm cool with it.

lol according to that Russian, Canada gets stuck with all the shitty states.



fuck you bitch. Michigan > canada

<3
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 12 2009 04:05 GMT
#43
Damn i bet if this happened Abe licoln would come out of his grave and slap some bitches for fucking his shit up
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
CrimsonLotus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Colombia1123 Posts
November 12 2009 04:09 GMT
#44
On November 12 2009 12:06 Carnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:03 tree.hugger wrote:
Reminds me of this dude.

hahahaha, wow

[image loading]


this is great


What the fuck... Just... What the fuck.

Too much vodka i guess.
444 444 444 444
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 04:23:12
November 12 2009 04:17 GMT
#45
I just watched the video and I have to say it was a much more compelling presentation then I thought it be LOL. Still all he is basically saying is that no nation last for ever. I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum would of agreed with that without seeing this video. The USA will fall apart at some point, but I don't think its going to happen at any time soon.

The video does bring up one thing that the history of other empires shows is true. When a nation stops expanding its territory and try's to hold its boarders. That's the day that empire starts to decline. The USA not going to be adding any states in my life time. So that's kind of a scary thought, but also we live in a new age where nations like the USA and other major powers really stop themselves for expanding. That's something we never seen before in world history. Normally the only thing that would stop a nation from expanding is running into another military force.

The guy from the video also forgets to talk about one thing that's really important when talking about the USA. The USA is really a experimental nation. Allot of the reasons that divide other nations like, language, race, ethnicity, and culture. They don't have as much of a dividing effect on Americans because its a big mixing pot. Americans have lived for 200 years with the idea that differences in ideas and culture are part of what makes this nation great. That's pretty unique to us.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
d3_crescentia
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4054 Posts
November 12 2009 04:27 GMT
#46
Lincoln proved that you can't secede from the Union and get away with it.

So, no.
once, not long ago, there was a moon here
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
November 12 2009 04:30 GMT
#47
On November 12 2009 12:55 Mykill wrote:
Canada always get shit states
who the fuck wants north dakota...


Hey now, don't trash talk N. Dakota. With all the hunters from that state getting them will probably double Canada's military capabilites.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
November 12 2009 04:37 GMT
#48
On November 12 2009 13:05 arb wrote:
Damn i bet if this happened Abe licoln would come out of his grave and slap some bitches for fucking his shit up

yeah, i bet.

"roflsup niggas?"

"Is that Abraham Linco--"

*CLICK* *BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!*
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
November 12 2009 04:40 GMT
#49
@InToTheWannaB

The most important part of the presentation was the discussion of gods, of the disparity between promises and reality, of the loss of legitimacy in the eyes of a politic. Under such situations, a nation state can disappear in a blink of an eye. It is more important to consider the legitimacy question rather than the idea of expansion and contraction.

The limit to the expansion is usually due to a bureaucratic limitations of an empire - rather that it is organizationally impossible to continue expansion and maintain unity. Take for example the Mongolian empire which in essence divided upon the death of Ghenghis into various Khans of his relatives.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
November 12 2009 04:50 GMT
#50
On November 12 2009 13:40 TanGeng wrote:
@InToTheWannaB

The most important part of the presentation was the discussion of gods, of the disparity between promises and reality, of the loss of legitimacy in the eyes of a politic. Under such situations, a nation state can disappear in a blink of an eye. It is more important to consider the legitimacy question rather than the idea of expansion and contraction.

The limit to the expansion is usually due to a bureaucratic limitations of an empire - rather that it is organizationally impossible to continue expansion and maintain unity. Take for example the Mongolian empire which in essence divided upon the death of Ghenghis into various Khans of his relatives.
Yeah the video does make allot of good points, but there can also be a change in goverment while the nation remains intact. The idea of disparity can bring about change, but I doubt it would lead to any break up of the union.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
November 12 2009 04:59 GMT
#51
the video also doesnt take into account that the people talking about seceding nowadays (the loudest anyway) are the nutbag religious anti-science conservatives who who are some of the most selfish/horrible people on earth. I have faith that the majority of the people in the US see through their scam and nothing big will ever come of them.

If seceding had been seriously brought up years ago by intelligent people and it wasnt an obvious scam/scare tactic then maybe the argument would hold some weight. Seceding from States has been talked about before but seceding from the entire US is a recent covert or overt(depending on who you are) right wing fringe idea.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Gnabgib
Profile Joined July 2009
United States381 Posts
November 12 2009 05:08 GMT
#52
On November 12 2009 11:31 TanGeng wrote:
Here's my opinion for anyone that would like to know.
+ Show Spoiler +
I think there will be some form of secession when the federal debt becomes unmanageable, and default or severe inflation risk will probably cause the richer parts of the country to secede from the union.

I tend to welcome this prospect provided that it's done in peace without civil war and without a giant wall fencing people in(Germany). The wide political differences between various states and politics could become a subject of intellectual curiosity rather than rabid political opposite. Not having to fight over the spoils of politics may have that positive effect.

.


Give me a example of a "rich state" and i'll give you a ton of reasons why it is too dependent on the rest of the states for it to secede.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 05:15:39
November 12 2009 05:11 GMT
#53
LOL.. Just one question. Wouldn't you want those people to secede and go gather in their own corner of the country?

On November 12 2009 14:08 Gnabgib wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 11:31 TanGeng wrote:
Here's my opinion for anyone that would like to know.
+ Show Spoiler +
I think there will be some form of secession when the federal debt becomes unmanageable, and default or severe inflation risk will probably cause the richer parts of the country to secede from the union.

I tend to welcome this prospect provided that it's done in peace without civil war and without a giant wall fencing people in(Germany). The wide political differences between various states and politics could become a subject of intellectual curiosity rather than rabid political opposite. Not having to fight over the spoils of politics may have that positive effect.

.


Give me a example of a "rich state" and i'll give you a ton of reasons why it is too dependent on the rest of the states for it to secede.


On trade yes. But open trade doesn't mean that they have to be party to the federal government. I would venture to think that if New England were to secede in total, New York would have a treaty up for free movement of people across its borders in days.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 05:17:22
November 12 2009 05:15 GMT
#54
On November 12 2009 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
No, it's true, I may have been wrong to characterize secession as treason. The session of the Confederacy wasn't the main act of treason, the firing upon territory held by the Union Army was.
Some would take the resupplying of Fort Sumter as Union aggression on the South(twas in Charleston county right?), giving a sort of casus belli to both sides (sounds like someone was getting ready for war~!!).
아나코자본주의
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
November 12 2009 05:18 GMT
#55
On November 12 2009 14:15 ShroomyD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
No, it's true, I may have been wrong to characterize secession as treason. The session of the Confederacy wasn't the main act of treason, the firing upon territory held by the Union Army was.
Some would take the resupplying of Fort Sumter as Union aggression on the South(twas in Charleston county right?), giving a sort of casus belli to both sides (sounds like someone was getting ready for way~!!).


resupplying does not equal firing. and i don't think the soldiers there chose to secede.
Macavenger
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1132 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 05:28:51
November 12 2009 05:27 GMT
#56
On November 12 2009 12:06 Carnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:03 tree.hugger wrote:
Reminds me of this dude.

hahahaha, wow

[image loading]


this is great

Guy who wrote this needs to be studying American politics more, as some of his predictions are totally whack. Wash/Ore/Cali would be like "gtfo racist jerks" to Utah and Idaho if this split occurred; they'd go with the north central area probably. NM would probably go with the pacific block; Hawii would stick there rather than going to Japan. Alaska would be on its own; undoubtedly Russia would have a heavy economic influence but they wouldn't own it short of invasion/occupation. The area east of the Rockies would probably split into 4 or 5 chunks, not 3.

And actually this is assuming splits occurred strictly along state lines, which is kind of unlikely. I know some people in southern Oregon + extreme northern Cali would already like to split off and form a new state together, etc.

Also, China would end up with influence over all the resulting countries, as they'd wave all their IOUs at everyone and be like "yo, someone's going to make good on all these."

Note: In case it isn't clear, there are some exaggerations above for comedic effect. No, I don't think everyone in Idaho and Utah is racist, etc.
theron[wdt]
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States395 Posts
November 12 2009 05:32 GMT
#57
i dont think itll happen. unless some shit happens like a very unpopular president rigging his way into election and him being very loose on federal control. I remember a game made off of this. And from what ive learned from Military Science (ROTC), i forsee big crackdowns if any attempt was made.
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
November 12 2009 05:34 GMT
#58
On November 12 2009 14:18 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 14:15 ShroomyD wrote:
On November 12 2009 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
No, it's true, I may have been wrong to characterize secession as treason. The session of the Confederacy wasn't the main act of treason, the firing upon territory held by the Union Army was.
Some would take the resupplying of Fort Sumter as Union aggression on the South(twas in Charleston county right?), giving a sort of casus belli to both sides (sounds like someone was getting ready for way~!!).


resupplying does not equal firing. and i don't think the soldiers there chose to secede.

well it seemed like the people of south carolina did :S the thing with democracy is that you can vote with your feet~! no need to start a war over your stubbornness``1~!~!~!`1~!!~1111!!!
아나코자본주의
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
November 12 2009 05:36 GMT
#59
On November 12 2009 14:32 theron[wdt] wrote:
i dont think itll happen.


It's not going to happen. Ever. This is just an absurd idea. Right now all the states are depending on the national government. You really think that any state can survive with out money? Almost every state is in bankruptcy. The idea in general shouldn't even be thought of either way.
Life?
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
November 12 2009 05:45 GMT
#60
On November 12 2009 11:36 statix wrote:
Isn't the only state that can legally secede Texas? I think the others seceding would be an act of war.


Texas actually negotiated the right to break into 4 smaller states, not the explicit right to secede.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
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