If this guy is legit then I could totally make it on the Russian lecture circuit. I'll predict the downfall of Russia's rivals and the awakening of the Russian bear for as long as they keep paying me.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

November 12 2009 03:20 GMT

#23

On November 12 2009 12:09 MoltkeWarding wrote:

Show nested quote +

Treason is specifically defined in the constitution. I do not think secession alone qualifies.

Secession is not treason. Making war against the states is treason. So leaving peacefully isn't treason.

On November 12 2009 12:14 Sadist wrote:
where the fuck were all these people when bush was in office. Seriously. Seceding from the US has got to be the most dumb fucking idea ive ever heard in my life.

It's not inconceivable. I would have voted for secession from union during Bush.

Sadist

United States7299 Posts

November 12 2009 03:22 GMT

#24

On November 12 2009 12:20 TanGeng wrote:

Show nested quote +

Secession is not treason. Making war against the states is treason. So leaving peacefully isn't treason.

Show nested quote +

It's not inconceivable. I would have voted for secession from union during Bush.

and youd be a fucking moron. Why stop there? Why not secede from states governments? Why stop there why not secede from counties? Cities? Townships? Streets? Households? Life?

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

November 12 2009 03:22 GMT

#25

On November 12 2009 12:22 Sadist wrote:
and youd be a fucking moron. Why stop there? Why not secede from states governments? Why stop there why not secede from counties? Cities? Townships? Streets? Households? Life?

Why not! Look at what Europe eventually becomes.

motbob

United States12546 Posts

November 12 2009 03:24 GMT

#26

Secession would probably be followed by a trade embargo to the relevant state and thus simply isn't worth it.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

November 12 2009 03:26 GMT

#27

On November 12 2009 12:24 motbob wrote:
Secession would probably be followed by a trade embargo to the relevant state and thus simply isn't worth it.

Again. Secession is quite inconceivable unless the central government is significantly weakened. Despite secession not being treason, states would have to contend with the federal government and its pull. That's what would bring the embargo, and that's the "might make right" justification for American Civil War

Anyways watch the video now that it's available. It'll provide a historical perspecitve - a long view - of the durability of large nation states / empires.

Mystlord

United States10264 Posts

November 12 2009 03:29 GMT

#28

Absolutely not. There's no reason for any state to actually secede from the US.

The only other example we have was back in 1860, and I certainly don't see any state or any group of states that might believe that they lack power in the national government.

tree.hugger

Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts

November 12 2009 03:30 GMT

#29

No, it's true, I may have been wrong to characterize secession as treason. The session of the Confederacy wasn't the main act of treason, the firing upon territory held by the Union Army was.

Treason is defined in the constitution as:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

So I'm not entirely correct. But secession leads to conflict almost inevitably, and secession falls under the definition of treason in other countries.

But this is a dumb topic. I would doubt the would be even a third of citizens in any state that would support secession. It just makes no sense whatsoever. The two great things about that map are the concept that Kentucky and Tennessee (and WV, VA, NC, SC, ect.) would somehow join the European Union, and that the Midwest would become part of Canada. Canadian influence? Hahahaha, good one.

Sadist

United States7299 Posts

November 12 2009 03:32 GMT

#30

Im also mystified by this allegiance to states. What the fuck.

Mystlord

United States10264 Posts

November 12 2009 03:34 GMT

#31

First of all it's called "secession" not session

And secession isn't necessarily considered treason. In the Civil War, the Confederate States of America was described as a "rebellion initiated by a group of individuals", not a treasonous action.

koreasilver

9109 Posts

November 12 2009 03:41 GMT

#32

Secession would be hilarious.

Do it.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

November 12 2009 03:42 GMT

#33

On November 12 2009 12:41 koreasilver wrote:
Secession would be hilarious.

Do it.

Come on, Quebec!

koreasilver

9109 Posts

November 12 2009 03:44 GMT

#34

Quebec got pretty close, but the separatist movement has really died down a lot compared to back then. Not anytime soon.

EAGER-beaver

Canada2799 Posts

November 12 2009 03:44 GMT

#35

On November 12 2009 12:41 koreasilver wrote:
Secession would be hilarious.

Do it.

As long as we don't get stuck with detroit I'm cool with it.

Mykill

Canada3402 Posts

November 12 2009 03:48 GMT

#36

its the US of freaking A
splitting any would just make them. the So-so kinda related nobody really knows whats going on States of America. :O

Chen

United States6344 Posts

November 12 2009 03:51 GMT

#37

Guys, remember what happened last time some states tried to split from the U.S? The exact same thing will happen again.

koreasilver

9109 Posts

November 12 2009 03:51 GMT

#38

On November 12 2009 12:44 EAGER-beaver wrote:

Show nested quote +

As long as we don't get stuck with detroit I'm cool with it.

lol according to that Russian, Canada gets stuck with all the shitty states.

synapse

China13814 Posts

November 12 2009 03:53 GMT

#39

On November 12 2009 12:06 Carnac wrote:

Show nested quote +

hahahaha, wow

this is great

IMO, michigan/minnesota/washington would go to canada, new england + all the stuff down to maryland might go to europe, florida / (cali+nevada) would become separate nations, everything else east / west of mississippi splits into two nations.

rofl... :D