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On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing.
Sure, almost the same thing buddy.
It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system.
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Capitalism carried the U.S. from a nobody to the super power that it is today. Socialism will just make everyone lazy. Look at the Europeans, no offense, try to compare the work ethics and attitude to that of an American.
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On November 10 2009 02:27 Sky101 wrote:
Capitalism carried the U.S. from a nobody to the super power that it is today. Socialism will just make everyone lazy. Look at the Europeans, no offense, try to compare the work ethics and attitude to that of an American.
Bahahahaha?
Work ethic? Where the hell do you live?
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On November 10 2009 02:23 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Nice to hear you Americans love your fellow man <3 What about someone whose taxmoney is used for warfare without his will ? Is it stealing too?
Charity should not be forced.
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On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system.
Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living.
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Hmm, im interested in knowin what the healthcare bill is 
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On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living.
I seem to remember my economy professor saying capitalism only works if a certain percentage of the population are unemployed at all times.
"Some of us work for a living," what an idiotic thing to say. You are in serious need of falling on some hard times to give you some perspective.
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On November 10 2009 02:42 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. I seem to remember my economy professor saying capitalism only works if a certain percentage of the population are unemployed at all times. "Some of us work for a living," what an idiotic thing to say. You are in serious need of falling on some hard times to give you some perspective.
True the economy is rough, but I would rather make the choice that I want to help those people out instead of being forced to.
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On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living.
Why even have government if it's not able to provide the absolutely basic service of keeping you alive?
Oh, right. You might need to bomb a country that's done nothing to you sometime in the near future.
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On November 10 2009 02:52 QibingZero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. Why even have government if it's not able to provide the absolutely basic service of keeping you alive? Oh, right. You might need to bomb a country that's done nothing to you sometime in the near future.
Because the service involves stealing. A right does not impose an obligation upon others for its fulfillment.
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Europe, an act of Satan to deceive righteous Americans from their path of LIBERTY, FREEDOM AND JUSTICE. The only solution to the problem of the existence of Europe is complete and utter extermination of those living under an immoral atheist ideology base on murder, theft, oppression and stupidity. You are either with us or against us.
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I love how logic and reason is left at the door when debating against the indoctrinated.
Sure, I'd love absolutely everyone to have insurance and access to great medical care. I'd love everyone to be able to afford the best education. I'd love everyone to be able to adequately feed and provide for their children. The important question to ask is, are these goals attainable and are they sustainable?
The reality is that resources and money is finite, and, the foolish quest for faux-egalitarianism will only end up with us facing a net-loss due to the inefficiencies of government. Inflation is a slow killer.
Try reading this paper; it's actually really short and does a good part in describing the windfalls inherit in usurping the free-market.
http://mises.org/midroad.asp
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On November 10 2009 03:11 SWPIGWANG wrote:
Europe, an act of Satan to deceive righteous Americans from their path of LIBERTY, FREEDOM AND JUSTICE. The only solution to the problem of the existence of Europe is complete and utter extermination of those living under an immoral atheist ideology base on murder, theft, oppression and stupidity. You are either with us or against us.
This might be meant to be humorous, but the last time I tried going to a church they were honestly preaching that. To be fair it was an interum pastor, but he was going on about how the EU was the antichrist and was going to attack Israel and nobody said anything (he wasn't even loud and angry, just matter-of-fact). When it was time for people to stand up and share (prayer requests and stuff), one lady talked about her trip to Europe, and how the churches there seemed so devoid of the spirit and the people so lost and faithless. Unreal how self righteous some people can be and not feel ashamed.
Sorry to derail. As for healthcare bill I have no comment or wish to jump into a discussion (flame war).
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On November 10 2009 02:52 QibingZero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. Why even have government if it's not able to provide the absolutely basic service of keeping you alive? Oh, right. You might need to bomb a country that's done nothing to you sometime in the near future.
Nice false dichotomy. There's plenty of individuals who are opposed to social programs and war. I personally detest the very idea of an army.
And more importantly, are you asserting that it's the government's role to keep you alive? I'm sure then that you're OK with a government prohibiting you from the right to end your life. I'm also sure you'd be OK with the government prohibiting you from eating unhealthy foods and using narcotics.
Your are no different than a religious man who seeks to utilize government to apply his morality to those of others. You seek to use government as a tool to steal, coerce, and punish. Please don't attempt to make yourself look like the noble fellow.
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On November 10 2009 02:50 Undisputed- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:42 Osmoses wrote:On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. I seem to remember my economy professor saying capitalism only works if a certain percentage of the population are unemployed at all times. "Some of us work for a living," what an idiotic thing to say. You are in serious need of falling on some hard times to give you some perspective. True the economy is rough, but I would rather make the choice that I want to help those people out instead of being forced to.
You don't sound like the type of person who helps voluntarily. Neither am I such a person. This is why I find it necessary for the government to force people to care about others: nobody would do it otherwise. I can't stand your antisocial attitude to be honest. Needy people aren't poor by choice, you know.
And please stop calling spending of tax money stealing. Is it stealing if the government builds streets?
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On November 10 2009 03:19 agorist wrote:
Sure, I'd love absolutely everyone to have insurance and access to great medical care. I'd love everyone to be able to afford the best education. I'd love everyone to be able to adequately feed and provide for their children. The important question to ask is, are these goals attainable and are they sustainable?
I love the adjectives you throw in there.
Great medical care
Best Education
Adequately feed
If everyone got the best education wouldn't that make it the "average" education?
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Wow, this is one hell of a flame-fest.
If I may actually reply to the OP's question of if it would pass as opposed to should it pass, I reckon a few moderate republicans could very well side with it, so I think it will pass, if anything the major problem would be with Democrat disagreements, are there any "Blue Dog" Senators? I could only see representatives on their wiki article.
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On November 10 2009 03:23 agorist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:52 QibingZero wrote:On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. Why even have government if it's not able to provide the absolutely basic service of keeping you alive? Oh, right. You might need to bomb a country that's done nothing to you sometime in the near future. And more importantly, are you asserting that it's the government's role to keep you alive? I'm sure then that you're OK with a government prohibiting you from the right to end your life. I'm also sure you'd be OK with the government prohibiting you from eating unhealthy foods and using narcotics.
Of course, if you're okay with the government providing something you must also be okay with the government prohibiting something. After all, both words begin with a P and end in an -ing.
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On November 10 2009 03:27 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:50 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:42 Osmoses wrote:On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. I seem to remember my economy professor saying capitalism only works if a certain percentage of the population are unemployed at all times. "Some of us work for a living," what an idiotic thing to say. You are in serious need of falling on some hard times to give you some perspective. True the economy is rough, but I would rather make the choice that I want to help those people out instead of being forced to. You don't sound like the type of person who helps voluntarily. Neither am I such a person. This is why I find it necessary for the government to force people to care about others: nobody would do it otherwise. I can't stand your antisocial attitude to be honest. Needy people aren't poor by choice, you know. And please stop calling spending of tax money stealing. Is it stealing if the government builds streets?
I'm glad you can make claims without research.
http://www.nptrust.org/philanthropy/philanthropy_stats.asp
Yes, it's stealing if you take money from an individual who doesn't support building a street. A street should be paid directly by those who use and benefit from it. This is done more efficiently via private ownership, however, can be done publicly with tolls and fees. Also, I'd also like to remind you of the divide between state and federal governments. I have a lot less of a concern with states enacting taxes and providing social programs than I do with a federal government doing the same.
Also, it's a bit rude to assert that someone's anti-social because they don't agree with your support of theft. Take a breather and think about what you're saying. Do you support occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan? Aid for Israel? Our taxpayer dollars are funding these things that most of us don't agree with, and, there's nothing we can do. For the same reason it's stupid to call someone anti-american for not supporting war, it's stupid to call someone anti-social for not supporting social programs.
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On November 10 2009 03:27 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2009 02:50 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:42 Osmoses wrote:On November 10 2009 02:38 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:26 Scorch wrote:On November 10 2009 02:15 Undisputed- wrote:On November 10 2009 02:06 pubbanana wrote:On November 10 2009 02:04 Undisputed- wrote:
Obamacare = legalized stealing Yeah, just say shit. People will believe it. It's pretty obvious, taxes will be used to pay for it. People who don't pay taxes will be covered under it. Pretty much stealing. Sure, almost the same thing buddy. It's quite surprising to me how hard some people fight against social measures. Is it a lack of social conscience? Avarice? Or maybe it's just my European upbringing and me being used to living in a welfare state which tell me that Survival Of The Fittest is not an adequate social system. Free healthcare is not a right, some people seem to think they are entitled to it though. Some of us work for a living. I seem to remember my economy professor saying capitalism only works if a certain percentage of the population are unemployed at all times. "Some of us work for a living," what an idiotic thing to say. You are in serious need of falling on some hard times to give you some perspective. True the economy is rough, but I would rather make the choice that I want to help those people out instead of being forced to. You don't sound like the type of person who helps voluntarily. Neither am I such a person. This is why I find it necessary for the government to force people to care about others: nobody would do it otherwise. I can't stand your antisocial attitude to be honest. Needy people aren't poor by choice, you know. And please stop calling spending of tax money stealing. Is it stealing if the government builds streets?
It's stealing, your comment about building roads is not even close to the same thing. It's hardly selfish to want to keep what you earn. It is selfish to expect others take care of you. And as for the needy not being poor by choice. Short of having a disability out of your control, it is very easy to "make it" in America if you are willing to work.
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EPT
