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Kaialynn
United States242 Posts
On September 28 2009 14:30 mOnion wrote: bustin out the strawman fallacy eh? nice to see someone else who actually studied logic. idunno, i dont really care, i have a job so wtfusabbq? I think we should meet up and have a party to discuss this, then blog about it in typical American fashion. Sound like a plan? | ||
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VorcePA
United States1102 Posts
On September 28 2009 14:30 mOnion wrote: idunno, i dont really care, i have a job so wtfusabbq? That is a poor attitude to have. Granted, you also shouldn't treat the unemployed like charity cases, like this administration is doing, so the attitude is also appropriate. >_> | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On September 28 2009 14:32 Kaialynn wrote: I think we should meet up and have a party to discuss this, then blog about it in typical American fashion. Sound like a plan? sounds good to me. blogging's the only way to fight the power, AMIRITE??? | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
I just hope the job market is better in a couple years when I get out. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On September 28 2009 14:32 VorcePA wrote: That is a poor attitude to have. Granted, you also shouldn't treat the unemployed like charity cases, like this administration is doing, so the attitude is also appropriate. >_> dont worry, im in Mays Business School as an entrepreneur. i'll create jobs, so its cool ^^ | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On September 28 2009 14:40 mOnion wrote: im so good at killing threads ^^ WHATS THIS? No Strawman Fallacy Meaningless trolling only 1v1 DESTINATION now to redivert thread back on track i think the large amount of youth unemployment belies the zero growth in the US economy, If there was truly a recovery, we would see higher youth employment than these figures suggest. Although a large amount of it may have to do with the recession attitude rather than the recession itself. But economics is based off rational decisions rather than panic anyways, otherwise supply and demand curves would be utterly useless. edit: Poll: Ban mOnion? (Vote): Yes (Vote): Kill More Threads Please | ||
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Ao_Jun
Denmark396 Posts
(Except spain). | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On September 28 2009 15:39 Ao_Jun wrote: People keeps blaming the 'high' taxes and the 'wellfare' system... How come european nations with way higher taxes and way better wellfare systems and way higher minimum wages and way larger public sectors are doing just fine? (Except spain). How come nations with virtually no welfare at all (i.e. China) are doing much better than European nations? Correlation =/= Causality | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On September 28 2009 15:36 Caller wrote: WHATS THIS? No Strawman Fallacy Meaningless trolling only 1v1 DESTINATION now to redivert thread back on track i think the large amount of youth unemployment belies the zero growth in the US economy, If there was truly a recovery, we would see higher youth employment than these figures suggest. Although a large amount of it may have to do with the recession attitude rather than the recession itself. But economics is based off rational decisions rather than panic anyways, otherwise supply and demand curves would be utterly useless. edit: Poll: Ban mOnion? (Vote): Yes (Vote): Kill More Threads Please omg o_0 i voted yes. ban that trolling noob | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
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iloveHieu
United States1919 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 28 2009 14:25 VorcePA wrote: No. Unemployment is based on the number of people receiving unemployment benefits divided by the number of working people. Las Vegas has a 12.8% unemployment rate. The real figure of unemployed for those aged 16-65 is probably above 17%. Also, the article states, and I quote: That's a good basis for noting a problem. 5 economics classes I've taken says that's not how they calculate the official unemployment rate... it's supposedly completely irrelevant of receiving unemployment benefits. If that's true, how accurate is the shit I've been learning for my major for the past 2 years... | ||
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Ao_Jun
Denmark396 Posts
On September 28 2009 15:41 Caller wrote: How come nations with virtually no welfare at all (i.e. China) are doing much better than European nations? Correlation =/= Causality Would you say the states are more compareable to china than to european countries? I was really looking for an answer along the lines of "because america based it's system on oil" or a more explanative answer at least. It just seems odd that everyone is bashing the high taxes when compareable countries with so much higher taxes are doing just fine.. | ||
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
Frankly, all I see in this thread is the typical right wing spam, unrepresentative personal examples and just plain random spam. The sort of funny thing is that the solution asked for in this case is to let the government throw money into their pet constituent in a distortionary way. Yes, let government pay for unneeded labor because it looks nice. (of course it can be justified like other money throwing schemes, but only on the basis of involving the multipliers which is NOT done at this point) If we follow rational economic theory, a long term high unemployment rate in a certain demographic can only mean that group is too unproductive to do shit or find the value of their time of greater value than wages offered. If it is a short term issue than market corrections would solve the problem. If you follow "but government is magic that can override supply and demand completely" theory, you might as well throw out markets and capitalism as a means of comprehending the economy and go socialist.... As for American debt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt There is precedence for spamming money out of a recession up to 120% GDP. This is nothing compared to the kind of money throwing FDR has done. I guess some people are just ass hurt that their pet program didn't get billions thrown at it though. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On September 28 2009 16:04 Ao_Jun wrote: Would you say the states are more compareable to china than to european countries? I was really looking for an answer along the lines of "because america based it's system on oil" or a more explanative answer at least. It just seems odd that everyone is bashing the high taxes when compareable countries with so much higher taxes are doing just fine.. Let's play a game called "comparable or not." Look at America. It is composed of regions that differ radically from one place to the other. For practical purposes, lets split America up into the Northeast, the Midwest, the South, the West, and Alaska/Hawaii (which I will ignore for purposes). Each of these regions is quite different from the others in terms of economical standing, industry, and GDP. In this case, the Northeast and West would have the highest GDP, followed by the Midwest and the South. Because of the multiplier that results from government spending (namely, that it gets liquid capital moving again), lets say America raises taxes. Where are they going to spend the money? a) they can spend it in the Northeast, which produces most of the income b) They can spend it in the South, which produces the least income. c) they could spend it in other places, or they can spread it out equally. In European countries, they are fairly homogenous (with notable exceptions, such as Western/Eastern Germany.) America is not nearly as homogenous, economically or racially, and thus many European policies would not work as well in America. Now let's take a look at nations such as Japan and Taiwan. Japan has high taxes and high welfare, and they have been trapped in a liquidity trap for the past 20 years. The main reason they can't get out is because nobody wants to spend money to earn money, and the people who would do so are not large in number. Taiwan, on the other hand, has more American-esque taxes and little welfare, and they have weathered a storm of economic trouble in Asia, and still remain fairly liquid and a hot spot to invest. Japan is not as hot anymore, partly as a result of the bubble, partly a result of the lack of capital flowing. The high taxes are not helping Japan from a purely economical sense, although from a civic sense it does follow. Japan really just needs to find ways to encourage more foreign investment. Lower taxes would do such a thing. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On September 28 2009 16:17 SWPIGWANG wrote: This only indicates the moral collapse of American youth as they have used the excuse of a recession to put off adult responsibilities and stay at home to leech off parents. The only solution is to SMITE them with the wraith of god..... (uh something) Frankly, all I see in this thread is the typical right wing spam, unrepresentative personal examples and just plain random spam. The sort of funny thing is that the solution asked for in this case is to let the government throw money into their pet constituent in a distortionary way. Yes, let government pay for unneeded labor because it looks nice. (of course it can be justified like other money throwing schemes, but only on the basis of involving the multipliers which is NOT done at this point) If we follow rational economic theory, a long term high unemployment rate in a certain demographic can only mean that group is too unproductive to do shit or find the value of their time of greater value than wages offered. If it is a short term issue than market corrections would solve the problem. If you follow "but government is magic that can override supply and demand completely" theory, you might as well throw out markets and capitalism as a means of comprehending the economy and go socialist.... As for American debt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt There is precedence for spamming money out of a recession up to 120% GDP. This is nothing compared to the kind of money throwing FDR has done. I guess some people are just ass hurt that their pet program didn't get billions thrown at it though. The problem with spamming money as you so put it is that it helps to propel malinvestment, bad decisions, and especially bubbles, like the one that crippled Japan and the many other bubbles that we've had recently. While I'm not certain that a market correction will be useful with America's role as the world's massive bond, I don't think mass government spending will help, either. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
On September 28 2009 15:41 Caller wrote: How come nations with virtually no welfare at all (i.e. China) are doing much better than European nations? Correlation =/= Causality What is the per capita GDP of china again? Of course, all this argues that COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIP OF AMERICA would work better. :D Communism: proven to work better than you! I can even write a (made up on the spot) coherent argument for this case. The authoritarian powers of the Chinese communist party allows for a far more stable investment environment over fickle democracies that often violate basic property rights with random populist actions and allow for anti-development pressure groups (greenpeace for example) to gain power. This superior environment translates to lower risk and thus increased foreign investment and growth rate. ---- Seriously, lazy examples left and right means very little. That said, Europe is likely more comparable with the United States than China, which is at a different income level, with a different government and more different culture background. | ||
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