EPTSeriously, just admit the Magic were a mediocre team in what was likely the worst conference in the history of basketball, and after the addition of Mcgrady they continued to be a mediocre team. Speaking in absolute terms, they were terrible in 98, terrible in 99, terrible in 00, terrible in 01, etc.
NBA Offseason Thread 2009 - Page 9
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Seriously, just admit the Magic were a mediocre team in what was likely the worst conference in the history of basketball, and after the addition of Mcgrady they continued to be a mediocre team. Speaking in absolute terms, they were terrible in 98, terrible in 99, terrible in 00, terrible in 01, etc. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
McGrady came to Orlando in August 2000, traded by Toronto for a future first-round draft choice, and Magic coach Doc Rivers' first up-close look at McGrady was a little disconcerting. "We work really hard in training camp," says Rivers, "and Tracy was overwhelmed. He said that they never worked that hard in Toronto. From the get-go in Orlando, playing with intensity has always been a big problem for Tracy, both in ballgames and in practice." Two seasons later and McGrady's work ethic remains a work in progress. "Last year," says Rivers, "I'd estimate that Tracy had 50 high-intensity games out of the 76 he played. It's still an up-and-down kind of thing, but he is getting better. Maybe he's up to speed in about three out of four games these days, and he's also working hard in most of our practice sessions." Because almost all of the Magic's offense goes through McGrady, the vim and vigor he brings to his game is crucial for the team's success. "Tracy is our power source," says Rivers. "It's up to him to energize the rest of us." Tracy McGrady McGrady leads the NBA in scoring and has topped 40 points three times this season. Orlando's most veteran player is Horace Grant, and he agrees that McGrady's energy level is sometimes inadequate. "The thing is," says Grant, "that Tracy's still only 23, and his competitive nature is still maturing. And, yes, a young player can learn to play with greater intensity. It's a technique, just like good footwork or making an outlet pass. But time is running out. If Tracy doesn't learn to play all out all the time within the next two years, then it'll be too late. Nothing gets unfixable as quickly as bad habits." Another teammate has a much more critical scouting report: "Instead of busting his butt on defense, Tracy likes to take short cuts. He gambles and cheats so much that he puts the rest of us in jeopardy." Oh, and that formidable Pistons team had the best record in the East at just 50 wins, going 15-13 against the West and 6-10 vs the West's playoff teams. Goddamn the East was horrid. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
What? VC is pretty well known to be a lazy motherfucker with no heart who pretty much squandered his basketball talent. When him and Kobe came into the league don't you remember all the debates on "who is most likely to be the next MJ... Kobe or Vince?" ... what happened to Vince? He totally fizzled out while Kobe went on to become a top 10, possibly top 5 player of all time. Vince wouldn't even crack the top 50, he'd be somewhere on the lower end of the top 100. He was such an amazing talent but he didn't utilize it because he was just so athletic that for most of his career he just relied on being "vinsanity" and blowing people away with his insane dunks and stuff that he never really developed into a complete player. Now in his early 30's he's starting to explore the areas of the game he totally ignored in his first 10 years and he's becoming a more complete player, but his window is gone. | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
On June 22 2009 16:07 Xeris wrote: What? VC is pretty well known to be a lazy motherfucker with no heart who pretty much squandered his basketball talent. When him and Kobe came into the league don't you remember all the debates on "who is most likely to be the next MJ... Kobe or Vince?" ... what happened to Vince? He totally fizzled out while Kobe went on to become a top 10, possibly top 5 player of all time. Vince wouldn't even crack the top 50, he'd be somewhere on the lower end of the top 100. He was such an amazing talent but he didn't utilize it because he was just so athletic that for most of his career he just relied on being "vinsanity" and blowing people away with his insane dunks and stuff that . Now in his early 30's he's starting to explore the areas of the game he totally ignored in his first 10 years and he's becoming a more complete player, but his window is gone. you forget that VC was plagued with injuries which imho really affected his level of play...there was a considerable drop off in production after thos injuries and it didn't take him until his 1st season in NJ to play at the level he once did in his earlier years at tor. im actually surprised he played at that level in NJ cause i really thought he was done knowing his history of injuries. what exactly did you mean by he never really developed into a complete player ?? | ||
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tenbagger
United States1289 Posts
On June 22 2009 12:10 Jibba wrote: I've had that discussion with Ace, too. Doc Rivers is still a bad coach and that COY was the same as Mike Brown's this year. The Magic went 31-17 (lockout) under Chuck Daly 2 years before Mcgrady joined, with such juggernauts as Penny and free throw magician Nick Anderson (who shot an outstanding 39.5%). Oh, and Big Ben's contribution to that 41-41 team was a ridiculous 5/8. Seriously, just admit the Magic were a mediocre team in what was likely the worst conference in the history of basketball, and after the addition of Mcgrady they continued to be a mediocre team. Speaking in absolute terms, they were terrible in 98, terrible in 99, terrible in 00, terrible in 01, etc. are you really going to base ben wallace's contribution to the team off of his 5 points a game? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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tenbagger
United States1289 Posts
On June 23 2009 03:29 Jibba wrote: No, but he 8 rebounds is in there too. Wallace was a decent energy player in Orlando, he didn't become the Defensive POY until he was in Detroit. If you say McGrady's Magic were hurt by losing Wallace, you need to clarify that Wallace wasn't that good yet. I agree with you that Wallace did not reach his peak until joining Detroit and no one considered him an impact player during his Orlando days. But I saw quite a few Orlando games that year and Wallace was a major reason why they were even 41-41 that year. That team was built entirely around defense and hustle and Wallace while not quite defensive POY material yet, was still a very valuable piece of that Orlando team. Wallace only averaged 24.2 minutes that year so his 8.2 rebounds, .9 steals and 1.6 blocks per game were very close to the per minute average that he subsequently put up in Detroit. Regarding the points about Tmac's defense in Orlando, I am in agreement that he was lacking intensity. When I mentioned Tmac was an elite defender, I was referring to his Toronto days when he wasn't yet an elite scorer and he had to earn his playing time through his defense. He lost some of his hunger and intensity on the defensive end when he got to Orlando and became a star. I believe he had the physical tools to be the same defensive player he was in toronto but there was something lacking mentally in terms of motivation, hunger and drive. And that missing element is precisely why I say that falls short of Lebron and Kobe, even during his prime. However, I still stand by my original point that Lebron's Cavs were better than the Orlando squad that Tmac had and that no single player would have been able to take that sqaud and win 66 games. When Tmac finally had a decent surrounding cast, he was no longer the same player since his back problems took away much of his explosive quickness and elevation. I just don't think Tmac gets enough credit for how good he was for a roughly a 3 year stretch. I agree that much of it is justified as it was largely due to his own shortcomings in terms of his lack of intensity. It's such a shame because Tmac was such a dfensive beast in his early years and never put that together with his dominating offensive stretch which was never put together with a decent surrounding cast. His playmaking and passing were both underrated and if he were able to put all those pieces together at the same time and stay healthy, he could have challenged Kobe as the best player of this generation. I know, coulda woulda shoulda. It's sad that he ends up as the guy that never won a playoff series and most of us have already forgotten how good he was. | ||
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72AND10
United States93 Posts
Two: VC was good, never great. Extremely talented but never had the drive. Incredible dunks and a pretty good jumpshot. Yeah, he's good. But that's it... He isn't great by any means. Three: Elite and defender should not be used in the same sentence when talking about TMac. He never was, nor has he ever been considered an elite defender. Although I am in agreement that his offensive skills are near the top. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 23 2009 10:42 Xeris wrote: were near the top =D I don't think the NBA allows restructuring contracts, but if it does he should do that. :/ God... | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I don't understand the hatred towards the guy. Sure he's failed in the playoffs, but many of those times it's not like he could have done much more. Just a few years ago before Lebron came around, people were arguing about whether or not Kobe or Tmac was the better player. | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 23 2009 13:30 Roffles wrote: It seems weak on paper, as the drop-off after Blake Griffin is just ridiculous. In big men it might be (although there's some pretty underrated bigs out there), but I think the guards will be very strong. | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
On June 23 2009 13:31 Ace wrote: He was never at the elite level of NBA superstars. huwaaaaaat | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Holy fucking shit. I'm so torn on this. I figured either Tay or Rip would be gone within the next year anyways, and Rondo was really superb in the playoffs, but still... I think I'm just in shock. Basically you get Rondo and a shit ton of cap space (enough to make max offers to probably 2 stars) in 2010 since Allen's contract is done. It's probably playing with fire though. | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
Wojo's reporting is usually reliable. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14908 Posts
do people like ainge really think this info isn't gonna leak out? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On June 23 2009 23:50 KOFgokuon wrote: yea, interesting do people like ainge really think this info isn't gonna leak out? Sometimes it doesn't come long after the matter no longer has any relevance. | ||
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