EPTNBA Offseason Thread 2009 - Page 7
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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radar14
United States1437 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On the other hand, the Cavs were unfortunate to have met the worst possible matchup for them in the league in the playoffs (Magic), and it's arguable that they had a shot to win it all if they had just figured out how to defend ORL. | ||
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radar14
United States1437 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
On June 21 2009 08:33 tonight wrote: What teams aren't "hungry" then? Bunch of those mediocre teams, the Knicks, Bucks, Nets, Pacers. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On June 21 2009 10:59 il0seonpurpose wrote: Bunch of those mediocre teams, the Knicks, Bucks, Nets, Pacers. Yep, at this point a lot of teams are playing (if not already) for the 2010 summer free agent super bonanza. Any great strides they make will be purely bonus. | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
On June 21 2009 12:01 Judicator wrote: Yep, at this point a lot of teams are playing (if not already) for the 2010 summer free agent super bonanza. Any great strides they make will be purely bonus. Yeah but who wants to play for the Bucks, Pacers or Nets? There are also other teams that are just sitting around for next year, pretty boring. And what happened to the Golden State Warriors? They have good players but can't seem to win enough to get into the playoffs after that upset against the Mavs two years ago. I can understand the West is more competitive record-wise (ah Steve Nash and the Suns, so sad) but they just fell apart after that. Speaking of 2010, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10 Some really good grabs coming up. For some reason, Ray Allen and Pierce are unrestricted but not KG. Rondo is also a free agent but I think they're hesitant to sign him a new contract for some odd reason. Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Tyson Chandler, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki Hopefully Pierce, Allen, Ginobli, McGrady, Nash and Nowitzki still have game left. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On June 21 2009 10:46 radar14 wrote: Besides LeBron, the Cavs have ho-hum size and/or athleticism at pretty much every position. The raw tools just aren't there to get to the next level. I think the best thing they could hope for is that Ben Wallace will decide to retire sooner rather than later and give them some flexibility with trades or signings. Shaq is a gamble. On one hand, James playing with another player that commands a double team is just frightening. On the other, you never know how many games you're going to get out of Shaq. He may be able to single cover Howard, but Shaq is also foul prone and a pretty sizable liability in defending the pick and roll. That was true even when he was back in LA. And all the top teams have excellent two-man half-court sets that they often go to in crunch time, i.e. entire 4th quarters in the playoffs. I don't think Shaq is the answer for Clevland, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Shaq is huge and can fill a lot of the paint by himself. Not only that but you need to double him, so that's automatically three people down there, that is a lot of weight+bodies down there. LeBron does most of his offensive damage in the paint so I don't think clogging it with bodies is really going to help him. What he REALLY needs is another perimeter guy who can consistently get you 20+ per game that you NEED to guard when he's out there, and just some more solid guys at all positions. Maybe not a center such as Shaq, but someone like pre-old Ben Wallace who was a real defensive anchor. Marcus Camby would actually be a great fit | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 21 2009 12:16 il0seonpurpose wrote: Hopefully Pierce, Allen, Ginobli, McGrady, Nash and Nowitzki still have game left. Not much, some, no, no, some, yes. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
While it's a bit vague what it means to "still have game left", I think it's a bit harsh to say that Pierce, Allen, and Nash only have "some" or "not much". While they may have declined a bit, all three can still give you Allstar-level production and are amongst the best at their positions. Pierce averaged 20.5 ppg with a 45.7 FG%, 39.1 3P%, and 83 FT%, while also grabbing 5.6 rpg and handing out 3.6 apg. You'd be hard-pressed to find many players capable of giving you that kind of production over an entire season. Pierce is also a great closer, capable of making tough pull-up jumpers, 3s, and driving strong to the basket. His only weakness is his tendency to turn the ball over. Ray actually improved from last season by averaging 18.2 ppg with a 48 FG% (!!!), 41 3P%, and 95.2 FT%. Those are ridiculous %s, particularly the FG% from a SG who takes so many perimeter shots. There's no deadlier shooter in the league. My main criticism of Ray is his inconsistency in the playoffs, but it's hard to argue that he's not the most dangerous perimeter shooter in the league. When he shoots, you expect it to go in every time. Nash had an off year with all the turmoil going on in PHX, including adjusting to a new coach with a new system that included Shaq and then adjusting to another coach with the old system except with Shaq, and losing Amare for most of the season, and It's hard to criticize Nash too harshly under those conditions, particularly when the team basically asked him to reinvent his game at the age of 35. Even with all that, Nash still put up 15.7 ppg with a 50.3 FG% (!!!), 43.9 3P%, and 93.3 FT%, along with handing out 9.7 apg. He even upped his scoring after the Allstar break, after they lost Amare, by scoring 18.7 ppg with 54.8 FG%, 47.3 3P%, and 92.3 FT%, and still handing out 9.6 apg. While the Suns struggled a lot this season, it's hard to blame Nash for much of it considering all the crap he had to deal with. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
It remains to be seen what TMac will be able to do if he gets healthier next season (a huge if obviously), but I'm still reminded of the fact that he led a Yao-less Rockets team to the second longest winning streak in NBA history only a season ago. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I dunno bout this one. I do think that all of em, minus Ray Allen have some game left. Ray Allen's getting old, and his game has deteriorated to simply a shooter. Not much versatility left, but he's still deadly from beyond the arc. Pierce still puts up some really solid numbers, as well as Dirk. Nash might have some mileage and his age is up there, but he's still a really decent PG. Ginobili needs to recover from his injuries. The Spurs really missed him in the playoffs. Now T-Mac, I'm still up in the air about him. The guy clearly has world class talent, as he used to dominate the scene. But it's hard to judge him simply because last year he wasn't healthy at all. I still think he can get back to the point where he can take over games and average something like 22-23 a game with Yao (If he plays with Yao again) in the lineup. A healthy T-Mac as he's demonstrated in the past is pretty dominant in the playoffs. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
 I still think even if healthy next year he will be pretty bad compared to his former self. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Very few guys can go out like MJ, Drexler, or Bird. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 22 2009 01:23 Ace wrote: T-Mac to me was never dominant I still think even if healthy next year he will be pretty bad compared to his former self. Agreed. Healthy or not (not), his dropoff is huge. I wonder how Garnett will look next year. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On June 22 2009 01:21 Xeris wrote: It's impossible to ascertain whether Ginobli will fully recover for his injuries, so I think Jibba's analysis might not be too far off. You can't really say "well if he comes back he'll be at top form and supergosu again" because the chances of perimeter players coming back from injuries at age 31 to play really well don't seem very high... I think that's the problem with not defining what it means to still have game left. Does it refer to the players still being able to put up Allstar-level production? Does it refer to their durability? Does it refer to their ability to take over games, or simply provide significant production for their teams? There's bound to be disagreement until we're all arguing the same thing. I can't predict whether Manu will be able to return to form after being hurt all last season, but I do strongly believe that he can be a dominant player if he can just get healthy. His game isn't based on elite athleticism or speed, his advantages are in skill and "craftiness". Manu's ability to shoot from the perimeter and weave in between and around players on his drives would tend to adapt well to him getting older. An older, 80-90% Manu is, in my opinion, still amongst the top SGs in the league, particularly with all his experience as a player. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On June 22 2009 01:23 Ace wrote: T-Mac to me was never dominant I still think even if healthy next year he will be pretty bad compared to his former self. It's hard to argue that TMac wasn't dominant back in his Orlando days when he was basically a one-man team. 32.1 ppg at 45.7 FG%, 2.3 3PTM at 38.6 3P%, and 7.7 FTM at 79.3 FT%, while producing 6.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.7 spg and 0.8 bpg? That's pretty dominant to me. He's loooooooooong past those days, but you have to at least recognize that he was crazy good when he was healthy and in his prime. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On June 22 2009 01:33 Jibba wrote: I'm not talking about what their performance will be next year. Obviously they're all all-stars right now and probably will be next year too. I'm talking about how much gas is left in the tank when that 2010 FA market comes around. Dirk is the only one I can see keeping up his numbers in the next 3+ years. The rest will become nice vet role players, or their legs will simply snap off (McGrady.) Think Dumars, Pippen, Reggie. They'll make a playoff team better, but when we're talking about the signings of Wade, Bosh, Johnson and Rondo (for you, Ace) their names won't deserve mention anymore. Very few guys can go out like MJ, Drexler, or Bird. If you're talking about their production over the next 3+ years, I guess I can understand your comments. However, I'm not going to back down entirely on my analysis earlier because Nash, Ray, Pierce, and Manu's games aren't reliant on speed and athleticism. Slowing down will affect their defense, but Nash has never been able to play defense and the other three will still be solid (which is more than can be said for many starters in this league). Teams will be able to reduce their minutes, and still be able to take full advantage of each of those players' abilities to take over a game for stretches, lead their teammates, and come up big in late-game/clutch situations. While they may not get the same attention as some of the younger talents out there, teams looking to win now will take a good hard look at all of them, and I'm certain they'll be in high demand as there will still be few players who can provide what they're capable of. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
The Celtics need to learn how to close out playoff series if they want their guys for a few extra years. BTW, looking at these numbers makes Malone seem unfucking believable. Almost 55,000 regular season minutes + 8,000 playoff minutes, and he still put up 20.6ppg, 7.8rpg and 4.7apg when he was 39. Nobody in the modern era is even close to him and Kareem. Utah is like a black hole for basketball players. If Malone played in LA or Boston he'd be the consensus 2nd best player of the 90s, and that's coming from a huge fan of the Dream. | ||
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