EPTEVE Corporation - Page 345
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule18975 Posts
EBUs don't make a whole lot of practical sense, imo. | ||
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Viceorvirtue
United States273 Posts
An anchorable thing that could shut down gate or station guns from working for a small period of time would be far more reasonable though. For example a device that you anchor within x km of a gate prevents the gateguns from working for y minutes, costs a few million isk per unit and can be destroyed as easily as a t1 cruiser. This allows small camps yet prevents permacamping because of the isk cost involved, and gives the victem a way to help save himself by destroying it and reactivating gateguns. | ||
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s_side
United States700 Posts
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Widdershins
51 Posts
On February 17 2011 02:53 LaughingTulkas wrote: [...] + Show Spoiler + Revised LowSec plan. Alliance/Corp anchors Economic Blockade Unit, a 250m3 object that anchors and onlines in under 5 minutes. The EBU provides the corporation with immunity from NPC guns and security status loss in that particular constellation/region. The EBU: -costs less than 100M isk (perhaps 20-50M isk,) -is anchored with 50km of a station -has no reinforcement timer -can be blown up by a ten man gang in fifteen-twenty minutes. Holding the system for an hour will cause the system to be identified as the turf of this corporation/alliance. Holding the system for six hours or more would result in any billboards present in system to be vandalized with the corp/alliance logo. This facilitates fast, fluid territorial shifts for measurable gain with minimal investment and loss, which should suit a small/new alliance focus. Low-sec becomes a place for small alliances and corps to fight for territory and become local powers of a reasonably fixed address as they build themselves into 0.0 capable groups. They will do this while coincidentally neighboring 0.0 and sitting on the 0.0 logistics routes to empire. This combination of factors (territoriality, persistent proximity, logistical necessity) can act as a way to draw small alliances into the periphery of EVE Online's Great Game of interstellar war, diplomacy, and bribery. On a personal level the EBU offers a % increase in the LP rewards of missions from agents in that system, potentially only for level 4 agents. This may necessitate lowsec getting more level 4 agents in conjunction with this lowsec overhaul. The EBU furthermore delivers a 1000m3 chunk of highly compressed minerals to the anchoring corp's delivery hangar in that system every hour. The first station in the system you own grants you 100% of the value, the second station in the system is 66%, the third station is 33%, and any subsequent stations is 10% the theoretical max. Holding additional systems in that constellation runs into small diminishing returns, like an 85%-45%-20%-10% on each additional system but it is still profitable. Holding station systems outside that same constellation results in a 30% return on all further EBUs. This mechanic is intended to prevent 0.0-style sprawling lowsec empires. The minerals delivered to the corp delivery hangar would be compressed into a single block of a maximum 1000m3 volume. This chunk would contain a couple million units of minerals. My reasoning for the change to a mineral payout is as follows: 1. Human beings do not, and probably should not, mine tritanium in EVE Online. 2. CCP hates literal isk faucets. 3. Having minerals flowing out of low sec stations in compact form gives the low sec owners a few options as to what they could do with it. They could smuggle the bricks to High Sec in blockade runners/deep space transports and sell to industrialists, particularly 0.0 industrialists, or they could foster their own local industry and build their own T1 ships and modules/ammunition in low sec. 4. The exact mineral composition of these bricks could be altered on a regular basis by CCP themselves to reflect market realities and to head off potential problems early. The mineral composition of a given EBU's product in a given system may even be subject to some daily randomization of percentages. 5. The amount of minerals in a brick is based on the amount of needed to make a tier two battlecruiser. A brick would provide roughly enough minerals to make a single Hurricane or a Harbinger every hour of system ownership. It was suggested to me that rather than going with bricks of strictly low-end minerals these bricks should incorporate every mineral type in proportion to use similar to drone compounds. I'd be open to that but it does reduce the dependence of lowsec on high sec for anything but T2 modules and T2/3 ships which CCP may not like. This system is not intended to support large alliances, or to be extraordinarily lucrative. It is designed to be a starting point for fresh alliances interested in moving out to 0.0 to build themselves up before taking the next step. While some alliances and corps will choose to stay rather than move on to 0.0, they will be trading the greater rewards of 0.0 for the lesser risks of low sec. I believe it would be relatively simple to scale this idea to NPC 0.0, with additional layers of complexity and rewards commensurate with the greater investment needed to live in NPC 0.0 with a proportionate level of loss. tl:dr - small corps/alliances can inexpensively "claim" areas of nullsec just like a gang of thugs "claiming" a city block in a major city. building a tower-ish item allows you immunity from gate guns and security downgrades, and a decent chunk of corp level income, but its pretty easy for another small gang to kill. Thoughts? Thoughts = "That is retardedly overpowered, especially the mineral thing, and 1 hour turnover is nowhere near long enough." Mineral prices would tank retardedly fast. A single 3-station lowsec system would produce somewhere around 1.4 BILLION isk in minerals per DAY at current prices. Reducing the income with additional systems claimed does nothing, as alt corps are cheap as shit to maintain. Corporate delivery hangar is too accessible and too arbitrary. Where are these minerals coming from anyway. Basically these ideas for lowsec system buffs are retarded, in a bad way. The only thing I can see as being reasonable buffs would be greatly reduced security status hits for committing crimes in that space for the corporation in question, and maybe also reducing NPC sentry aggro to pilots of that corporation. | ||
KwarK
United States41980 Posts
On February 17 2011 18:25 Widdershins wrote: Basically these ideas for lowsec system buffs are retarded, in a bad way. The only thing I can see as being reasonable buffs would be greatly reduced security status hits for committing crimes in that space for the corporation in question, and maybe also reducing NPC sentry aggro to pilots of that corporation. Want. Piracy is penalised to an absurd degree at the moment. It'd be okay if the ways to recover sec status (missions/exploration/ratting) weren't such awful money but if you make your money from trade then it's a massive waste of your time doing that. | ||
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Johnny Business
Sweden1251 Posts
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34483 Posts
On February 17 2011 18:25 Widdershins wrote: Thoughts = "That is retardedly overpowered, especially the mineral thing, and 1 hour turnover is nowhere near long enough." Mineral prices would tank retardedly fast. A single 3-station lowsec system would produce somewhere around 1.4 BILLION isk in minerals per DAY at current prices. Reducing the income with additional systems claimed does nothing, as alt corps are cheap as shit to maintain. Corporate delivery hangar is too accessible and too arbitrary. Where are these minerals coming from anyway. Basically these ideas for lowsec system buffs are retarded, in a bad way. The only thing I can see as being reasonable buffs would be greatly reduced security status hits for committing crimes in that space for the corporation in question, and maybe also reducing NPC sentry aggro to pilots of that corporation. Hello and welcome, by the way. I haven't read through the post in great detail but keep in mind it doesn't HAVE to be minerals given out, and numbers can be changed easily. The idea behind it is the important bit - some sort of monetary reward for 'owning' a lowsec system. Although I would love not taking sec status hits, I don't think that would be that big of an incentive for most people. | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
Pirating must have an negative effect. Removing sec status will cause a few things to happen: 1. Pods will be ganked, implants will shit itself in price. 2. Lowsec griefers will be more common (ie. not limited to dedicated pirates) 3. You'll have massive blobs from 0.0 alliances in low sec because now they can do it. 4. In addendum to 3., if you have massive blobs from 0.0 alliances, don't expect to erect a POS anywhere in lowsec ever again, it will get sniped for funzies. | ||
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
1. The loss of an EBU is not a great loss, they are not expensive and easy to put up. 2. The potential gain of an EBU should be nice enough for a small alliance to want it, but not enough for 0.0 alliances to really bother. It's not really about importing sov, but just giving small alliances/corps something to fight for, as well as bumping their income so that if they ever want to move to 0.0, they won't get roflstomped or be forced to be a renter/pet. The minerals composition/amount can be modulated by CCP to keep the market stable, or just removed. Gate guns wouldn't just be always against your opponents, just not against you when you deserved it. I dunno, I guess I liked the idea of pirate gangs "taking over" lowsec areas like gangs in New York city. I thought the sec statuts thing was a great idea too. Oh well, I guess most here don't agree or just didn't read the post  | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34483 Posts
Little things like the health of the EBU, time taken to destroy it, minerals/isk rewarded, whether your sec status is hit etc can be changed, but the idea itself is brilliant imo. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule18975 Posts
Serg, Gemini, Jed, and myself went out on a roam last night in Drake, BB, Rifter, Drake (respectively). Serg was FC and for some reason decided to take us into core low. So we got started, with Jed getting a bit of practical scout training. Although he failed horribly at times. There were some people in local who were completely ignored by Jed, and a Pest and Myrm (I think it was a Myrm at least) landed on Serg, who was off gate. He burned back and we played around for a little before they fucked off. Then Serg found a rifter in a plex. He warped in and got point on it while the rest of us jumped into system (the scout from AHEAD of us). I got secondary point on it and we all sat there for a minute trying to figure out why a Rifter was A) not moving at all, and B) in a plex with 3 BS. After we blew him up and saw the fit we realized what was happening. The 3 day old toon was doing tutorial missions. So after that we made another 20 or so jumps and finding absolutely nothing. Serg said he wanted to check one last pocket of low before we turned around, so that's where we went. Happy said he'd come join us, so we just sat around IN Flosewin for a bit waiting for him to show up. While he was still 6 jumps out or so, a pirate Lachesis and a neutral Machariel turned up. We decided to wait for Happy before we engaged so we warped around quite a bit. Eventually they got scared of our Drake Rifter BB Drake gang and jumped somewhere. So we started looking for them as Happy got closer and closer. I jumped into Aset, and lo...they were there. And they had more friends. A Purifier, Scimitar, and a Rapier joined them. The Machariel kept crashing the gates between Aset and Flosewin. Our plan was to try to get them to agress on gate (or agress them, since all of them but the Machariel were red) but at some point during their pussy gatecrashingness they saw our Blackbirds waiting for them and they fucked off. Then we returned home without seeing anything. Fuck core low. | ||
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
EDIT: wow just saw the wirteup, why would there be toutrials in low-sec? | ||
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Johnny Business
Sweden1251 Posts
On February 17 2011 22:18 Jombozeus wrote: Let me give my 2 cents. Pirating must have an negative effect. Removing sec status will cause a few things to happen: 1. Pods will be ganked, implants will shit itself in price. 2. Lowsec griefers will be more common (ie. not limited to dedicated pirates) 3. You'll have massive blobs from 0.0 alliances in low sec because now they can do it. 4. In addendum to 3., if you have massive blobs from 0.0 alliances, don't expect to erect a POS anywhere in lowsec ever again, it will get sniped for funzies. 1. pods are nearly unkillable without bubbles. (right kwark?) 2. Griefers are still there now. Why would you even go low sec if you don't want to pvp... 3. They already can do it. Look at uemon. Also there is no way a 0.0 alliance will move into low sec because there is no sov. 4. Already happening. Don't expect to be safe in eve. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34483 Posts
and...yeah the rest of the points don't really apply :/ massive 0.0 alliances aren't gonna bother because the rewards are still not as big as in 0.0 space | ||
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Widdershins
51 Posts
On February 17 2011 20:55 Firebolt145 wrote: I haven't read through the post in great detail but keep in mind it doesn't HAVE to be minerals given out, and numbers can be changed easily. The idea behind it is the important bit - some sort of monetary reward for 'owning' a lowsec system. Although I would love not taking sec status hits, I don't think that would be that big of an incentive for most people. Giving a straight up reward in money or isk just for holding space is very much not in the sense of EVE as it exists today. Holding space is, and should be, an expensive endeavor. I think that reductions in sec status hits would be a VERY large incentive for anyone wanting to claim lowsec space. It makes one of the biggest challenges with claiming lowsec - defending your space - much more feasible. Removing the entire sec status mechanic is absolutely not a solution. On February 17 2011 23:55 LaughingTulkas wrote: Hmmm, the idea seems to me to be 1. The loss of an EBU is not a great loss, they are not expensive and easy to put up. 2. The potential gain of an EBU should be nice enough for a small alliance to want it, but not enough for 0.0 alliances to really bother. It's not really about importing sov, but just giving small alliances/corps something to fight for, as well as bumping their income so that if they ever want to move to 0.0, they won't get roflstomped or be forced to be a renter/pet. The minerals composition/amount can be modulated by CCP to keep the market stable, or just removed. Gate guns wouldn't just be always against your opponents, just not against you when you deserved it. I dunno, I guess I liked the idea of pirate gangs "taking over" lowsec areas like gangs in New York city. I thought the sec statuts thing was a great idea too. Oh well, I guess most here don't agree or just didn't read the post With the way it's written out in that post, nullsec alliances would be ALL OVER station-system lowsec, because you can make HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of isk per month just by holding shitty lowsec systems continuously. The only difficulty for them here is that with only a 1 hour timer, it would be a ridiculously trying task to actually keep a system for more than a few hours at a time, and claiming lowsec sov would end up being comprised of short "ops" where you give up the space when you go home a couple hours later. It's really a very bad system. Weken: The question is not "how can we make our system INVULNERABLE TO HUGE NULLSEC-BLOBS," it's "how can we make sure that huge nullsec-blobs aren't really any more useful in the new system than they were before." It should only reduce sec status hits and gategun aggro for that specific corporation in that specific system (say, by 75 or 80%). So if you took ownership of a lowsec system, and someone retarded is missioning there, you can kill them without a huge security status loss. Killrights and GCC mechanics would still remain the same. Rather than just plain giving players a stupid crapton of money for owning the system, why not just make complexes in lowsec space more profitable. Find a happy medium between hisec complexes/missioning and nullsec. More drug-related sites, more hacking/archaeology plexes maybe, just more money in general, but not as much as NPC null. edit: In addition, I don't like using a deployable-sov-structure mechanic in lowsec so similar to the way it is in nullsec; I much prefer the idea of a sort of escalating bribe system, almost like some kind of twisted ongoing auction. On February 17 2011 20:50 Weken wrote: Surly this wont really effect us once we move. I lol'd. | ||
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
We are moving to get away from gate guns and stuff, so we will be fighting in null-sec not low sec. Meaning that low-sec stuff wont effect us as much, IMO. Yes there will be some fighting in low-sec but most of it will be in null. Or that is what i think is happning, what would be the point in moving away from emol to fight in low-sec, as there is a low-sec systems right next to emol. | ||
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