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Why would people want to make a game you could "afk" through? The game is complicated and offers corresponding rewards for figuring things out. It's also a sandbox game, which means that even some of the traditional 'rails' placed on in other MMOs are attenuated or gone altogether, maybe this is contributing to your thoughts about the learning curve?
The game is the same no matter who plays it, but after watching more than a year of people come in and out of the Hatchery/Spawning Pool system I have to agree with Vov on this one. Many players (see the two excellent Eve Birthday posts from DefMatrix and Aeth) pick the game up quite quickly, while some others take a bit longer to 'get' how Eve works, and quite a few either decide the game isn't for them or never quite figure out what they need to do.
Quite honestly I doubt we would play Eve if it wasn't like that. If the game isn't for you because it does have a lot of mechanics to learn early on, that's fine, but the continuing success of the corporations and the testimonials those members give suggest that we are in fact interested in getting members of this community into Eve.
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For the "click at shit and it dies" CoD player, of course the game is gonna feel overwhelming when he does that and blows up because of "transversal". Doesn't mean it is hard. Following vov I made 60mil in a few hours arranging boxes in a pyramid and clicking buttons.
What may be hard is figuring out what to do, then this corp may be the best source in the whole of EVE. The great EVE Uni would throw you in a 70 man "jam all the things" clusterfuck to be owned by half a dozen of us.
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To be honest, there are too many things that you can afk in eve.
- Mining
- AFK missioning (via kiting Vexor or Dominix)
- Trading
- Being a corp CEO
- Corp/alliance theft
- Corp/alliance spy
- Mining
- Highsec exploration (although the probing part requires a tiny bit of effort)
- Hauling / courier
- Manufacturing
- Scamming / Running a EVE lottery / Running a competition
- Margin trading / Contract spamming
- Gatecamping
- Cloaky scout (especially AFK if on behalf of your blobbing nullsec alliance you're watching a titan that is also AFK)
- Mining
- Roleplaying
- Planetary interaction
- Living in a wormhole
And for those with a bit more skillpoints (or isk to buy characters)
- Being a Titan bridge pilot
- Being a Rorqual pilot (compressing the ore for them miners)
- Being a supercap pilot
- Advanced AFK missioning (via Gila or Rattlesnake)
- Offgrid links
- Ice mining
- Advanced hauling AKA lowsec/nullsec logistics AKA POS/Station fueling and jump freightering
- Loaning isk
- Moon mining
- Managing a POS
It all just depends on what your definition of "I'm successful at this game" is.
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On March 25 2012 10:05 Boggler wrote:
Can someone quote the OP with exactly what it is you guys think I did not read?
I post one thing and get a bunch of useless replies...
Vice, GG bro. You made an alt and played the game again.
The curve is as steep as it is. Not as you make it. If people made the curve it would be so low you could afk through the game.
Plus, the OP is pretty accurate. It says that you will get trolled and ridiculed by corp members. QFT
Game so easy. I make flowchart:
1. Make new char.
2. Get in rifter.
3. Fuck up. (This will inevitably happen no matter how much you try to prevent it happening.)
4. Get called an idiot by Kwark, followed by his detailed description as to exactly how you fucked up.
5. ???
6. Drake
3 and 4 will probably repeat many, many times.
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On March 25 2012 12:07 TritaN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:05 Boggler wrote:
Can someone quote the OP with exactly what it is you guys think I did not read?
I post one thing and get a bunch of useless replies...
Vice, GG bro. You made an alt and played the game again.
The curve is as steep as it is. Not as you make it. If people made the curve it would be so low you could afk through the game.
Plus, the OP is pretty accurate. It says that you will get trolled and ridiculed by corp members. QFT Game so easy. I make flowchart: 1. Make new char. 2. Get in rifter. 3. Fuck up. (This will inevitably happen no matter how much you try to prevent it happening.) 4. Get called an idiot by Kwark, followed by his detailed description as to exactly how you fucked up. 5. ??? 6. Drake 3 and 4 will probably repeat many, many times.
This is exactly why this is so dumb. You guys are the idiots.
I ALREADY HAVE A FUCKING ACCOUNT YOU FUCKING RETARDS.
Why would I make a new account? I bought and paid for the one I have already.
This is no "community" This is you guys all gang tackling me and calling me an idiot for not following instructions when I clearly did follow the instructions. I then get called an idiot some more and am told how I fucked up, when I already have an account... Maybe you guys need to read the OP...
I never did anything wrong here. You guys all jumped on me for no reason. If its true that you guys are looking for people in the TL community to play Eve with then your loss. I am playing this game, its fun and I definitely don't need to be called an idiot several times for not doing anything wrong.
You guys are trolls. Its only a game. Lose the ego.
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On March 25 2012 12:39 Boggler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 12:07 TritaN wrote:On March 25 2012 10:05 Boggler wrote:
Can someone quote the OP with exactly what it is you guys think I did not read?
I post one thing and get a bunch of useless replies...
Vice, GG bro. You made an alt and played the game again.
The curve is as steep as it is. Not as you make it. If people made the curve it would be so low you could afk through the game.
Plus, the OP is pretty accurate. It says that you will get trolled and ridiculed by corp members. QFT Game so easy. I make flowchart: 1. Make new char. 2. Get in rifter. 3. Fuck up. (This will inevitably happen no matter how much you try to prevent it happening.) 4. Get called an idiot by Kwark, followed by his detailed description as to exactly how you fucked up. 5. ??? 6. Drake 3 and 4 will probably repeat many, many times. This is exactly why this is so dumb. You guys are the idiots. I ALREADY HAVE A FUCKING ACCOUNT YOU FUCKING RETARDS. Why would I make a new account? I bought and paid for the one I have already. This is no "community" This is you guys all gang tackling me and calling me an idiot for not following instructions when I clearly did follow the instructions. I then get called an idiot some more and am told how I fucked up, when I already have an account... Maybe you guys need to read the OP... I never did anything wrong here. You guys all jumped on me for no reason. If its true that you guys are looking for people in the TL community to play Eve with then your loss. I am playing this game, its fun and I definitely don't need to be called an idiot several times for not doing anything wrong. You guys are trolls. Its only a game. Lose the ego.
I'm actually now very confused. You have an account, did you ever talk to a director? Exactly what your narrative is about following the instructions might help to clarify what's going on.
Just from reading the thread, you make a post complaining about the new player experience, and specifically complained about the game's learning curve. People replying to this are all people who've went through that same learning curve. The particulars of the mentoring process seem to be a bit of a red herring here. Plenty of players who already purchased accounts integrate perfectly well into the Team Liquid alliance.
You come in, complain about the corp, people at various levels both of authority and of patience try and figure out both a) the context in which you've seen fit to make the remarks since none was provided. and b) explain that giving the system another go might not be as difficult as you're portraying it, and your reaction here seems to be to go All-Caps on the situation.
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Lol, new player experience ftw.
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*edit* Actually, pointless comment.
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On March 25 2012 12:39 Boggler wrote:
*snip*
From my experience and observations of many fellow Eve players across a variety of corps/environments: success in Eve relates to how much effort and thought you put into it. From your comments its seems as if you have not had a successful time with Eve. In a corporation like The Hatchery every tool to guide you is present - but no one is going to do it for you.
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United States43934 Posts
On March 25 2012 12:52 Byzantium wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 12:39 Boggler wrote:On March 25 2012 12:07 TritaN wrote:On March 25 2012 10:05 Boggler wrote:
Can someone quote the OP with exactly what it is you guys think I did not read?
I post one thing and get a bunch of useless replies...
Vice, GG bro. You made an alt and played the game again.
The curve is as steep as it is. Not as you make it. If people made the curve it would be so low you could afk through the game.
Plus, the OP is pretty accurate. It says that you will get trolled and ridiculed by corp members. QFT Game so easy. I make flowchart: 1. Make new char. 2. Get in rifter. 3. Fuck up. (This will inevitably happen no matter how much you try to prevent it happening.) 4. Get called an idiot by Kwark, followed by his detailed description as to exactly how you fucked up. 5. ??? 6. Drake 3 and 4 will probably repeat many, many times. This is exactly why this is so dumb. You guys are the idiots. I ALREADY HAVE A FUCKING ACCOUNT YOU FUCKING RETARDS. Why would I make a new account? I bought and paid for the one I have already. This is no "community" This is you guys all gang tackling me and calling me an idiot for not following instructions when I clearly did follow the instructions. I then get called an idiot some more and am told how I fucked up, when I already have an account... Maybe you guys need to read the OP... I never did anything wrong here. You guys all jumped on me for no reason. If its true that you guys are looking for people in the TL community to play Eve with then your loss. I am playing this game, its fun and I definitely don't need to be called an idiot several times for not doing anything wrong. You guys are trolls. Its only a game. Lose the ego. I'm actually now very confused. You have an account, did you ever talk to a director? Exactly what your narrative is about following the instructions might help to clarify what's going on. Just from reading the thread, you make a post complaining about the new player experience, and specifically complained about the game's learning curve. People replying to this are all people who've went through that same learning curve. The particulars of the mentoring process seem to be a bit of a red herring here. Plenty of players who already purchased accounts integrate perfectly well into the Team Liquid alliance. You come in, complain about the corp, people at various levels both of authority and of patience try and figure out both a) the context in which you've seen fit to make the remarks since none was provided. and b) explain that giving the system another go might not be as difficult as you're portraying it, and your reaction here seems to be to go All-Caps on the situation.
He decided to explore eve for about 2 weeks before coming to Hatchery Pub. I ran into him there, explained his error and told him he could still join but not get a mentor. I explained to him what he needed to do to get into Spawning Pool and he got as far as PMing me but for whatever reason didn't follow it up (I think he logged off before I got him in :S). He then spent the next week asking stupid questions without furthering his application and expecting us to spoonfeed him. He didn't seem to understand that eve isn't something you pick up by playing it yourself with questions such as "which direction is my ship pointing?" answered by the friendly gents in Hatchery. Letting people in is a public service, our recruitment policy is charity, he didn't take us up on it and I lost patience with him and kicked him from Pub.
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This thread (from my perspective) is mainly posts by the active veterans about current/recent PVP, high level game discussion, and community events. Having read a lot of the older posts in this thread, I feel that most new players are dealt with in-game and in-corp, and the ones that post here are the ones that failed to make it there.
Since I'm not yet active in fleets and stuff, I don't really interact with a lot of the corp, and as such I've never felt the need to post here. As such, my "new player experience," has been mostly PVE (salvaging and other ISK-earning), and picking up knowledge about the game. However, for the sake of prospective members, and because Adderall makes me extremely talkative, here's my new player experience so far:
Prior to joining the Hatchery, I'd never played EVE, but hearing that you could pay the subscription with a minimal amount of effort through in-game money was appealing to me. While downloading and patching the massive 18GB client, I read the OP and set up my 14-day trial.
Instead of jumping right into the TL corp, I spent 3-4 days doing the tutorial missions so I would appear that much less bad. Even then, I could already tell that EVE's learning curve was steeper than any other MMO I'd played before. After completing the last starter mission, I hopped into hatchery pub, asked around, and was given Sylvex as a mentor--the process somewhat streamlined by being an active 4-year member of TL.
Sylvex pointed me to some 3rd party apps and a skill plan to follow for my first couple months of play. Other than that, the mentoring process was basically hands-off, with most contact initiated by me. However, I like learning things independently, through trial and error if necessary, and kept my questions to a minimum, which I would later come to regret.
After getting the minimum skillset for salvaging, I grew impatient with the long training times of higher rank skills, and proceeded to pick up prerequisites for various ship modules I wanted for low-level missions. Having played WoW and a handful of Asian MMO's, I was used to long, tedious quest grinding, and simply spammed missions when salvage was unavailable (either due to lack of missioners or abundance of other new member salvagers).
I did not understand how attribute remapping worked, which was the basis of a skill plan, instead going after whichever skills I wanted at the time. I did not understand that L4 mission rewards made anything lower look like pocket change, instead skilling towards Rupture because in my eyes, it was the next good ship (for missioning) that I could attain quickly. I failed missions--and lost ships--because my gunnery and module-equipping skills were not on-par with the ships I was flying.
I started asking Sylvex more questions, learning about fitting and remaps, which I finally used to start repairing my damaged skill plan. I started sitting in the Teamspeak channel, listening in on fleet roams, learning the lingo, and getting used to hearing Kwark yell at people. Fortunately the absurd amount of time I spent online missioning/salvaging paid for my ship losses, and at the end of my 21-day trial I still had a pile of ISK which, with help from my mentor, allowed me to pay for my first time card without spending real money.
I'm on schedule (at the cost of some support skills) to getting an L4-capable ship for earning plex on my own, and I've picked up a lot of knowledge along the way (with a lot to go). Though I have yet to join in on fleet PVP, I feel that Hatchery/Spawning Pool members are friendly and helpful with those that don't come in with a bad attitude. For new members, I think the hardest part of Hatchery protocol, which I think is mentioned in the OP, is the "think for yourself, but do what you're told" mindset.
Some things I've learned about joining Hatchery and EVE in general:
-Be humble - most corp interaction is in-game, and people will respond as EVE players first and TL members second. As EVE players (if the killboards are any indication), Hatchery veterans are smarter than your average bear.
-Ask questions - most people like helping new players because it's an excuse to show off their game knowledge. If you feel the need to explain why you did something wrong, phrase it as a question instead of an argument as to why you were right.
-EVE has a sharp learning curve - Looking stuff up online or in rookie chat can help avoid asking corpmates "dumb" questions, though corpmate advice takes precedence over other resources.
The cost of learning (so far): 3 ruptures, 1 hurricane, 1 rifter, and some number of thrashers. If I wasn't enjoying the game/corp I'd have stopped playing by now 
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
That said, be careful with what you learn from rookie chat/online sources. There are lots of trash out there.
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1 Firebolt is EVERYWHERE
2 Rookie chat is fun to sit in and read, just treat it as if the people typing are monkeys bashing on their keyboard.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On March 25 2012 18:08 Valashu wrote:
1 Firebolt is EVERYWHERE
?
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Hyrule19204 Posts
On March 25 2012 18:13 Firebolt145 wrote:?
Everywhere means "all the places"
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So this Boggler guy, masterful troll, or just highly annoyed flamer?
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This 'learning curve too steep' always reminds me of this.
![[image loading]](http://www.restokin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Sensory_Overload.jpg)
personally, I haven't had a single problem with the Hatchery members so far. It's true I mostly mind my own business and chat a bit on channels, sometimes tune in to TS. Mind my game so far has been doing the tutorial, getting a salvager, getting a prober and either salvaging or probing to get isk for my first plex. It is boring at times, but I see the vision of stuff becoming much easier and faster soon and that pulls me forward. And then I'll be able to join the PvP with the corp. ^_^
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
And that's when you'll have your problems...^^
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On March 25 2012 12:39 Boggler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 12:07 TritaN wrote:On March 25 2012 10:05 Boggler wrote:
Can someone quote the OP with exactly what it is you guys think I did not read?
I post one thing and get a bunch of useless replies...
Vice, GG bro. You made an alt and played the game again.
The curve is as steep as it is. Not as you make it. If people made the curve it would be so low you could afk through the game.
Plus, the OP is pretty accurate. It says that you will get trolled and ridiculed by corp members. QFT Game so easy. I make flowchart: 1. Make new char. 2. Get in rifter. 3. Fuck up. (This will inevitably happen no matter how much you try to prevent it happening.) 4. Get called an idiot by Kwark, followed by his detailed description as to exactly how you fucked up. 5. ??? 6. Drake 3 and 4 will probably repeat many, many times. tbh we've been here and done this exact same dance numerous times with recruits in the past. New guy comes along and can't take being told he did something stupid. But it's always us that has the problem. Always us that isn't being reasonable. Always us that are the retards. Never you who does anything wrong because you aren't even capable of understanding why the things that are right are actually right. It's not you q This is exactly why this is so dumb. You guys are the idiots. I ALREADY HAVE A FUCKING ACCOUNT YOU FUCKING RETARDS. Why would I make a new account? I bought and paid for the one I have already. This is no "community" This is you guys all gang tackling me and calling me an idiot for not following instructions when I clearly did follow the instructions. I then get called an idiot some more and am told how I fucked up, when I already have an account... Maybe you guys need to read the OP... I never did anything wrong here. You guys all jumped on me for no reason. If its true that you guys are looking for people in the TL community to play Eve with then your loss. I am playing this game, its fun and I definitely don't need to be called an idiot several times for not doing anything wrong. You guys are trolls. Its only a game. Lose the ego.
tbh we've done this exact same dance with numerous new guys over the course of the last year and change I've been around.
New guy comes around, probably thinks he's something special because you were once good at some other game. Sure, okay. But people never understand that nobody, no one, is good at eve when they start. It's just not that kind of game.
But no, it's always us who are the retards. Us who aren't being reasonable. Never you who isn't doing what he is told. No way. You have to realize that saying that you did all the "right things" is completely stupid because you aren't even capable of understanding why anything you do that's "right" is actually right.
It's pretty tedious to deal with people like you from time to time, but they always seem to come around. They act completely entitled and can't understand why we could call you stupid for fucking up when we don't hold your hand through everything. This game requires some personal initiative to understand mechanics/basic things. If you are unwilling to do that you will not only fail as a member of this corp but as any non-bear corp.
We won't hold your hand through shit, we also won't tolerate you making the same mistake twice. If this is not a level of accountability that you are able to be stomach...move on.
Stop being bitter and stomping your foot because we didn't spoonfeed everything to you and you can't just be good at this game. You didn't do everything right. You didn't show anything that would even resemble initiative and you can't seem to understand the concept of being accountable for your own actions. Instead you deflect all of the incoming blame on the people that were SUPPOSED to shelter you from the fact that you were bad, which everyone is when they start.
There's no place for someone like you in a corp like this. You tell us to lose the ego but you, as a new player, say that you "never did anything wrong here"?
0/10
Get out.
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Again. I see I am being accused of doing things I never did. I do not think anybody here is even close to being on the same page. I guess that is the way it goes sometimes.
True. I did already have an account. And true. I did join Hatch Pub. I did ask a few questions in there, and sometimes I was given an answer, and most of the time I was called a retard idiot. This is fine, it states this in the OP that I was told I did not read several times.
Also, I never made any attempt to join the Corp. If I did, somebody better give me proof of this PM I supposedly sent. I joined Hatch Pub, explained my situation, I am basically a new player, bought my account already etc. I then stated that I was still doing the tutorials and that I would contact someone when I was done.
How this turned in to me not following instructions is beyond me. I really have no idea. Plus, I have no idea how all you guys are taking sides on this issue. I have seen a few well written replies to the situation, ones that speak as examples of the community here at TL, the rest is pure flaming, and you guys don't even know the situation.
Where did I make a mistake? Probably by not reading this thread before buying the game. but that is probably the only mistake. For everything else, I followed the process.
Now, the idea that I was asking questions in Hatch Pub. Yes, I was. But its not like I was spamming question after question. And, it again says in the OP that asking questions in there is fine, but that you will get made fun of more often then answered. The last question was if there was any way to see your direction of travel? I play scrolled out to like 100km and can't see the engines very well. I was immediately ridiculed upon asking this, told look at your engines you retard and so on.
How is that community? How did I do anything wrong in that situation? I already knew that there would be a high chance of getting ridiculed for asking, but who cares, its just a game, and if someone could possibly answer then it would be worth it.
Now, How did I ever ask to be spoonfed? I would really like to know this one.
I joined Hatch Pub, continued to do tutorials on my own, learn everything on my own, so that I would soon be able to understand a lot of the game basics, and not have any more simple questions that can be looked up. I did that. I am not some know it all from another game. I did it because I do not want to be spoon fed. So what if it took me some extra time, I am waiting for skills to train so I have time.
When did I ask to have my hand held? See again here. This reply is idiotic. I never asked for my hand to be held. More trolling.
So this Boggler guy, masterful troll, or just highly annoyed flamer?
Neither. But you have to expect me to defend myself after being flamed. I still haven't done anything wrong.
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EPT
