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On January 13 2012 01:49 Rikke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 21:26 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 20:24 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 19:42 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 19:36 Rikke wrote:
Nah, PvP isn't really fun. Playing as level50 with/vs Level10s is no fun! And the rewarding system for PvP is total RNG Crap! If you are lucky you get full-pvp-set in 10 bags and if you're unlucky you open 50 bags and only get like 1-2 items.
Right now, I will just finish the class-stories for my Juggernaut&Saboteur and if the Endgame is still that boring I won't pay for another month. Dude, there is a level 50 bracket AND the non-RNG gear being added this month I still see no motivation in PvP, the Itemscaling is ridiculous. Illum is dead and a Daily-Quest only zone and the PvE Content ist the most time waste in a long time. If BioWare doesn't put out HUGE changes to the endgame until January 20th, 80% of players will don't touch this game again and it will be like Aion or LotRO. Leveling was alot of fun but at Maxlevel there is absolutly no conent beside doing boring dailies in PvP or PvE. At 50, you do dungeons, raids, pvp and dailies to grind reputation or whatever in either PvE or PvP. There is all of that in SWTOR. You just dont like MMO's then? No! WoW had alot of motivation in Vanilla and TBC. SWTOR doesnt have that! There needs to be something to work on at maxlevel! I cleared the bugged heroics, I cleared the bugged operations, I have seen enough of bugged PvP... motivation gone! There is just no point in doing heroics/raids/pvp. The endgame is so bad that you are full-epic after 1 day at maxlevel and heroic-gear = raidgear. Would be better if you only got Blue Gear in Heroics and Operations had only one Difficulty (=Nightmare). I saw all the Encounters now and no one has the motivation to clear the same operations in Nightmare, when the only difference are the boss hp/dps scaled up. If the game were much harder, there would be content left to motivate for. And I don't think BioWare will make the game much harder, so WoW has destroyed the MMO Genre for Non-Casuals.
What motivation did you have in Vanilla and TBC?
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On January 13 2012 01:39 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 01:05 abominare wrote:On January 12 2012 21:26 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 20:24 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 19:42 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 19:36 Rikke wrote:
Nah, PvP isn't really fun. Playing as level50 with/vs Level10s is no fun! And the rewarding system for PvP is total RNG Crap! If you are lucky you get full-pvp-set in 10 bags and if you're unlucky you open 50 bags and only get like 1-2 items.
Right now, I will just finish the class-stories for my Juggernaut&Saboteur and if the Endgame is still that boring I won't pay for another month. Dude, there is a level 50 bracket AND the non-RNG gear being added this month I still see no motivation in PvP, the Itemscaling is ridiculous. Illum is dead and a Daily-Quest only zone and the PvE Content ist the most time waste in a long time. If BioWare doesn't put out HUGE changes to the endgame until January 20th, 80% of players will don't touch this game again and it will be like Aion or LotRO. Leveling was alot of fun but at Maxlevel there is absolutly no conent beside doing boring dailies in PvP or PvE. Its exactly like every other MMO out there. At 50, you do dungeons, raids, pvp and dailies to grind reputation or whatever in either PvE or PvP. There is all of that in SWTOR. You just dont like MMO's then? Whats a daily quest or a dungeon? *eve smug* There's certainly room to be creative in the MMO world, though I wish more people would incorporate successes of games like eve into their dev plans. You know like having a functional economy/crafting system, or at the very least embrace that you made an MMO and stop finding ways of separating players from other players. /also the post you quoted, is virtually all red squiggles on my screen, an impressive feat. The problem is that Eve is also unbelievably boring to many people.
You know I've always though that grinding the same bosses, dungeons, and daily quests for years was boring too. This is the cornerstone of MMO hypocrisy, most games concede that there needs to be huge swaths of the game that are intentionally not fun.
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On January 13 2012 01:53 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 01:49 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 21:26 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 20:24 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 19:42 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 19:36 Rikke wrote:
Nah, PvP isn't really fun. Playing as level50 with/vs Level10s is no fun! And the rewarding system for PvP is total RNG Crap! If you are lucky you get full-pvp-set in 10 bags and if you're unlucky you open 50 bags and only get like 1-2 items.
Right now, I will just finish the class-stories for my Juggernaut&Saboteur and if the Endgame is still that boring I won't pay for another month. Dude, there is a level 50 bracket AND the non-RNG gear being added this month I still see no motivation in PvP, the Itemscaling is ridiculous. Illum is dead and a Daily-Quest only zone and the PvE Content ist the most time waste in a long time. If BioWare doesn't put out HUGE changes to the endgame until January 20th, 80% of players will don't touch this game again and it will be like Aion or LotRO. Leveling was alot of fun but at Maxlevel there is absolutly no conent beside doing boring dailies in PvP or PvE. At 50, you do dungeons, raids, pvp and dailies to grind reputation or whatever in either PvE or PvP. There is all of that in SWTOR. You just dont like MMO's then? No! WoW had alot of motivation in Vanilla and TBC. SWTOR doesnt have that! There needs to be something to work on at maxlevel! I cleared the bugged heroics, I cleared the bugged operations, I have seen enough of bugged PvP... motivation gone! There is just no point in doing heroics/raids/pvp. The endgame is so bad that you are full-epic after 1 day at maxlevel and heroic-gear = raidgear. Would be better if you only got Blue Gear in Heroics and Operations had only one Difficulty (=Nightmare). I saw all the Encounters now and no one has the motivation to clear the same operations in Nightmare, when the only difference are the boss hp/dps scaled up. If the game were much harder, there would be content left to motivate for. And I don't think BioWare will make the game much harder, so WoW has destroyed the MMO Genre for Non-Casuals. What motivation did you have in Vanilla and TBC?
I remember having alot of motivation to get crul shorukh edge of chaos
O_O
that's about it :D
WoW raid instances in vanilla were quite cool
I'm not there yet in swotr so i can't know
Thing you guys have to keep in mind is that WoW designers were EQ hardcores and wanted to carry on the spirit to some extent
Swotr is good because it's about jedis !
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On January 13 2012 01:53 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 01:49 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 21:26 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 20:24 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 19:42 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 19:36 Rikke wrote:
Nah, PvP isn't really fun. Playing as level50 with/vs Level10s is no fun! And the rewarding system for PvP is total RNG Crap! If you are lucky you get full-pvp-set in 10 bags and if you're unlucky you open 50 bags and only get like 1-2 items.
Right now, I will just finish the class-stories for my Juggernaut&Saboteur and if the Endgame is still that boring I won't pay for another month. Dude, there is a level 50 bracket AND the non-RNG gear being added this month I still see no motivation in PvP, the Itemscaling is ridiculous. Illum is dead and a Daily-Quest only zone and the PvE Content ist the most time waste in a long time. If BioWare doesn't put out HUGE changes to the endgame until January 20th, 80% of players will don't touch this game again and it will be like Aion or LotRO. Leveling was alot of fun but at Maxlevel there is absolutly no conent beside doing boring dailies in PvP or PvE. At 50, you do dungeons, raids, pvp and dailies to grind reputation or whatever in either PvE or PvP. There is all of that in SWTOR. You just dont like MMO's then? No! WoW had alot of motivation in Vanilla and TBC. SWTOR doesnt have that! There needs to be something to work on at maxlevel! I cleared the bugged heroics, I cleared the bugged operations, I have seen enough of bugged PvP... motivation gone! There is just no point in doing heroics/raids/pvp. The endgame is so bad that you are full-epic after 1 day at maxlevel and heroic-gear = raidgear. Would be better if you only got Blue Gear in Heroics and Operations had only one Difficulty (=Nightmare). I saw all the Encounters now and no one has the motivation to clear the same operations in Nightmare, when the only difference are the boss hp/dps scaled up. If the game were much harder, there would be content left to motivate for. And I don't think BioWare will make the game much harder, so WoW has destroyed the MMO Genre for Non-Casuals. What motivation did you have in Vanilla and TBC?
For pvp I remember the ongoing guild effort to get a certain player in our guild the grand marshal pvp title, lots of effort there. Purple was pretty much a color you only saw in 40 man raid content. BWL, was probably one of the funnest/hardest raid zones in wow for a long time.
The motivation in early wow was only the fact that most of the population would not have full epics, would not be ranked highly in pvp, and would never see the content you did. Yet while the high end raid content was locked off from people, thousands of players would continue to hurl themselves at the entry level raid, and beg and bribe their way into guilds that could beat it, or hope to god their scrub guild would work out the kinks and that they might see the second raid dungeon.
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On January 13 2012 01:36 Zocat wrote:
Daoc had 3 realms. With only 2 factions every "world changing" pvp system is doomed to fail, because of massive population imbalance. Sure you can buff the outnumbered, or limit the amount of people allowed to enter, but those are just bad design options, which try to cover the underlying fault.
Also I want to whine a bit about the crafting system:
"You already have this schemantic" while reverse engineering is the most disappointing message ever... especially when you consider that no such message shows when learning an already known recipe from a plan (oh and you actually use & lose the plan in those cases^^).
Very true, having 3 sides makes the game almost balance itself because the 2 weaker sides will often help eachother out and try to take out the strongest side. This is what happend alot in DAoC.
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On January 13 2012 02:29 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 01:53 Zocat wrote:On January 13 2012 01:49 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 21:26 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 20:24 Rikke wrote:On January 12 2012 19:42 Capped wrote:On January 12 2012 19:36 Rikke wrote:
Nah, PvP isn't really fun. Playing as level50 with/vs Level10s is no fun! And the rewarding system for PvP is total RNG Crap! If you are lucky you get full-pvp-set in 10 bags and if you're unlucky you open 50 bags and only get like 1-2 items.
Right now, I will just finish the class-stories for my Juggernaut&Saboteur and if the Endgame is still that boring I won't pay for another month. Dude, there is a level 50 bracket AND the non-RNG gear being added this month I still see no motivation in PvP, the Itemscaling is ridiculous. Illum is dead and a Daily-Quest only zone and the PvE Content ist the most time waste in a long time. If BioWare doesn't put out HUGE changes to the endgame until January 20th, 80% of players will don't touch this game again and it will be like Aion or LotRO. Leveling was alot of fun but at Maxlevel there is absolutly no conent beside doing boring dailies in PvP or PvE. At 50, you do dungeons, raids, pvp and dailies to grind reputation or whatever in either PvE or PvP. There is all of that in SWTOR. You just dont like MMO's then? No! WoW had alot of motivation in Vanilla and TBC. SWTOR doesnt have that! There needs to be something to work on at maxlevel! I cleared the bugged heroics, I cleared the bugged operations, I have seen enough of bugged PvP... motivation gone! There is just no point in doing heroics/raids/pvp. The endgame is so bad that you are full-epic after 1 day at maxlevel and heroic-gear = raidgear. Would be better if you only got Blue Gear in Heroics and Operations had only one Difficulty (=Nightmare). I saw all the Encounters now and no one has the motivation to clear the same operations in Nightmare, when the only difference are the boss hp/dps scaled up. If the game were much harder, there would be content left to motivate for. And I don't think BioWare will make the game much harder, so WoW has destroyed the MMO Genre for Non-Casuals. What motivation did you have in Vanilla and TBC? I remember having alot of motivation to get crul shorukh edge of chaos O_O that's about it :D WoW raid instances in vanilla were quite cool I'm not there yet in swotr so i can't know Thing you guys have to keep in mind is that WoW designers were EQ hardcores and wanted to carry on the spirit to some extent Swotr is good because it's about jedis !
The raid instances in vanilla were very cool, but the boss fights were pretty dull other than some in BWL. SWOTR has some fantastic boss mechanics and it makes the instances a lot more fun for me.
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I would take a difficult boss encounter any day over fun, yet easy ones.
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DAoC was a phenomenal PvP experience. With capturable forts, sieges, and 3 factions, it was hands down my favorite PvPing, with Planetside being a close runner up. Darkness Falls <3
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On January 13 2012 02:56 BliptiX wrote:
I would take a difficult boss encounter any day over fun, yet easy ones.
Agreed, because with a difficult encounter (which granted is not stupidly hard) will allways be fun, kinda like dark/demons souls is fun 
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On January 13 2012 03:14 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 03:06 HackBenjamin wrote:
DAoC was a phenomenal PvP experience. With capturable forts, sieges, and 3 factions, it was hands down my favorite PvPing, with Planetside being a close runner up. Darkness Falls <3 For me Planetside and Lineage2 have had the best pvp experience. Shared #1 because they are so different. Too bad one is dead, and the other one was broken by their developer and playerbase. Open PVP or more than 2 factions is what i want in an optimal mmo.
2 Factions can be enough, there just needs to be more incentive for PvP to take place. Specifically, TOR needs more contested territories. Capturable territories/planets/bases etc. would be a good start, but most importantly there needs to be a reward or benefit for one faction holding more assets than the other, such as a buff or bonus to items/credits, maybe even a zone that the losing faction wouldnt have access to, a la Darkness Falls from DAoC. It CANNOT be like Wintergrasp or Tol Barad with a 2 hour timer between fights or whatever, and the ridiculous limits of 200 people per fight. Open PvP needs to be able to happen at any time, and no, there should NOT be a limit on how many people can join in, nor a minimum amount of players required to get the fight started.
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On January 13 2012 03:30 HackBenjamin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 03:14 zeru wrote:On January 13 2012 03:06 HackBenjamin wrote:
DAoC was a phenomenal PvP experience. With capturable forts, sieges, and 3 factions, it was hands down my favorite PvPing, with Planetside being a close runner up. Darkness Falls <3 For me Planetside and Lineage2 have had the best pvp experience. Shared #1 because they are so different. Too bad one is dead, and the other one was broken by their developer and playerbase. Open PVP or more than 2 factions is what i want in an optimal mmo. 2 Factions can be enough, there just needs to be more incentive for PvP to take place. Specifically, TOR needs more contested territories. Capturable territories/planets/bases etc. would be a good start, but most importantly there needs to be a reward or benefit for one faction holding more assets than the other, such as a buff or bonus to items/credits, maybe even a zone that the losing faction wouldnt have access to, a la Darkness Falls from DAoC. It CANNOT be like Wintergrasp or Tol Barad with a 2 hour timer between fights or whatever, and the ridiculous limits of 200 people per fight. Open PvP needs to be able to happen at any time, and no, there should NOT be a limit on how many people can join in, nor a minimum amount of players required to get the fight started.
The main problem with systems of open PvP such as you describe is that they don't work on servers with faction imbalance - if one faction has 2 or 3x the amount of players then the other, they will control the zone almost 100% and therefor forever get the benefits, which can cause people to want to transfer to the more populated side and further imbalance the server.
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What's important to me in a mmo is how i fall in love with my character. My sith marauder does that and I'm happy with it ! :D
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On January 13 2012 03:17 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 02:56 BliptiX wrote:
I would take a difficult boss encounter any day over fun, yet easy ones.
Agreed, because with a difficult encounter (which granted is not stupidly hard) will allways be fun, kinda like dark/demons souls is fun
Demon Souls can only be considered fun when it's just you playing. Imagine Demon Souls where if any of the 8-25 people you play with mess up, you all have to go back and start again.
Not fun anymore.
The dirty little secret of MMO encounters is everyone wants the encounters to be "hard but not impossible". Unfortunately what that means is vastly different from person to person. One person's "hard but not impossible" is another person's easy mode, and vice versa. Everyone wants it tuned for them, but it's a game of millions of people.
Now put on top of that the fact that because of WoW and intelligent website designers and other bright minds, MMO players have an average level of sophistication that is orders of magnitude higher than it was during Vanilla WoW or EQ. People know how to dissect fights, reverse-engineer game mechanics, min-max and optimize using tools of ever-greater complexity and accuracy.
Just remember whenever you say "the encounters in SWTOR should be X hard", there's always a group of people who want it easier than that and a group of people that want it harder than that. You are both a "hardcore" and a "scrub". It's all a matter of perspective.
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On January 12 2012 16:50 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 07:22 Narw wrote:On January 11 2012 20:52 Capped wrote:On January 11 2012 14:52 topoulo wrote:
so things arent broken eh ?
SO whos right now That last bit, that proves how damn childish the guy is. It also basically proves what we're having to put up with in this thread, its damn pathetic. I wish people could quit complaining about the game in here so we can start discussing the game :-( I just finished chapter 1 of sith inquis class quest. It was awesome O.O + Show Spoiler +I didnt expect Zash to be trying to take my body with the ritual, was an amazing twist, along with her ending up in khem val's body LOL. Then to have the other guy send me off to die right away :-( Also im really enjoying pvp, im only 33 so i struggle vs the ever increasing amounts of 50's. Still fun as hell though :-) To the guy saying how Huttball would never be balanced because of the need to use force pulls / pushes / knockbacks...It promotes a hell of alot of teamplay, which is a good thing... Just because you cant tank all the way to the goal with the ball :-( Seriously. People should be defending you, stunning / keeping away those people that are trying to push you off the edge. Certain classes can force jump to friendly / enemy players alike, if you fall off you can get back up. If your not that class theres another that can PULL you back up. And then if you get knocked off, try not being greedy and passing up to the team :O. I agree sometimes the stunlock can be a bit aggrivating and tedious, but tbh if its done by more then 2 people then its fair game. Why do people come in here and expect to faceroll everyone?  if huttball was like that, then tanks would grab the ball and just walk off with it. It would just become the spam of who could get the ball fastest + random ganking for 3~ minutes. So in short, you talk about something you have no idea about and expect to have some discussion? Your last line sums that the best. Thats how exactly random a hutball match looks. And "random" ganking happens couse hey guess what, pvp rewarding system is abysmal exactly like the whole pvp in this game is abysmal at this point so it promotes random ganking and dragging the game instead of actually winning fast. So enjoy questing and leveling couse it is actually good, but dont try to convince anyone that pvp in this game is good. It will be maybe good after 3-6 months of patches and constant work on tons of issues that have been listed in this thread so many times it actually hurts to have to repeat em for x time. If you want competitive and semi balanced pvp go play WoW. I dont know why i keep coming into this thread to get flamed to **** by all the people who apparently love trolling and consistently complaining about something they dont like...Its annoying i cant resist.I dont see how i have no idea about it? What, because i disagree with your bullshit QQ? Dont be so fucking aggressive. Im valor R40 so i think i'd have a FAIR idea about how the PvP aspect works. The only things i see "broken" are the ability delay (which i hardly notice i must say, but i know its there and people cry to their parents about it all day long.) and the reward system, but its new at release what did you expect, they're fixing Ilum as i speak. After that its disorganise idiots, known as PUG's causing the majority of my problems. When people dont play as a team, the whole thing goes to shit. Which i think is your problem, you get roflstomped so you think its unbalanced. Seriously if you dont think teamwork and counter stuns / pulls etc balance eachother out, your silly mate. Ive seen it happen time after time anyway. There really is no problem with it. The only problem i can see is being stunlocked by 1-2 people for longer then 6s, if theres more then 2, you cant really complain as your a target if you have the ball, and you should have defence and CD's to get you out of them. (Here's a tip: Dont use them at the first chance you get. they're baiting you -_- I can literally force slow some people to get them to use CD then stun and knock them off, dumbasses.) Positioning helps too. Your complaining about the way the warzone was designed, it was designed around the pulls/pushes/stuns blah blah, someone force pushes you off, your team pulls you back up..you get stunned, team stun enemy. You cant be pulled up, team runs to goal and you pass up to them. Its magic, really. If you dont like the way the warzone is played out, then im sorry. But theres not really a fundamental balance problem with it. I cant comment on class balance as im not level 50, nor have i played in a level 50 only bracket (like any of you.) so i wont, ive never bothered myself with class balance anyway. Im glad they're finally adding the 50 bracket, came a week too late if you ask me. Been getting facerolled by geared 50's all week XD i guess they needed to wait for it to flesh out so there wouldnt be long queues. And WoW competitive and semi-balanced? I dont even know where to begin, but dont do it in this thread ffs. Decent MMO PvP was DAoC, GW, L2. And guess what, they all had their fair share of imbalance. (L2 Archers, GW Obs spikes to name the first that come to mind.) Just keep it out of this thread so it doesnt devolve into pointless WoW vs SWTOR crap and get everyone banned
Huttball is an amazing PvP mechanic when played at high-level, but my issue with PvP at current is that you need a pre-made to have any reasonable hope of success in the game. The matchmaking system is so uneven at present that you can spend an entire evening being rolled by pre-mades when your team has a number of characters in the teens. Then, the next night, you catch all the pre-made queues and you win like 7 games in a row.
The game needs to do a better job of level-matching (not necessary once 50-only bracket goes in), a better job of matching skill level (perhaps some sort of ranking system or Elo system), and a better job of matching pre-mades against pre-mades.
I don't think any of the classes are too OP relative to each other (though Operatives are reaaaaallly close on the Alderaan Warzone), but there's such an uneven experience to the PvP that it becomes really frustrating.
I've pinned most of my unhappiness with the PvP at 50 to the fact that the Daily Quest for Warzones is to win 3 games. When I was sub-50 and you get the "Play in one warzone" quest or even the "Win one warzone" quest, I didn't care about long win streaks or long losing streaks. If the game got badly out of hand I just tried to find good 1v1's or 2v2's while participating to make it fun. Win some, lose some. But now I need to win 3 games a night, which in an optimal situation could take a minimum of 45 minutes, but may take upwards of 1-1.5 hours all told with queues and such if the games stretch out longer. But you won't win them all without a pre-made, so it could take 3-4 hours just to secure those 3 wins.
If they changed the daily quest to "play 3 warzones", my aggravation with PvP would dramatically lessen. If I want to do something else with my night, I'm stuck in the warzones til I hit my quota. If that chore takes up too much of a percentage of my playing time, then I'm not having fun anymore.
Clearly I need to find a PvP guild... but I think there's plenty of ways to make PuG BGs more enjoyable.
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Would it be a good idea to make a thread (or have the OP do this) listing all of the TL players, and the server on which they play (and also faction)?
i.e. I currently Play on Chuundar (EU) - Republic - Pellucidity (Main Character)
Seems like it'd be an easy way for us to find eachother, or is there already such a thread/post and have I just missed it?
P.S. I'm looking for a fun server to play some Sith Characters on, any suggestions welcome. For the first time in a long while I find myself actually leveling for storylines.
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On January 13 2012 04:42 Pellucidity wrote:
Would it be a good idea to make a thread (or have the OP do this) listing all of the TL players, and the server on which they play (and also faction)?
i.e. I currently Play on Chuundar (EU) - Republic - Pellucidity (Main Character)
Seems like it'd be an easy way for us to find eachother, or is there already such a thread/post and have I just missed it?
P.S. I'm looking for a fun server to play some Sith Characters on, any suggestions welcome. For the first time in a long while I find myself actually leveling for storylines.
Look out for the sith assassin stabbin' your ass with a pointy light stick.
Capped - Chuundar (EU) - Empire.
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The way they are handling this high-res texture thing is making me seriously just want to never play this game again. Bioware left a really foul taste in my mouth with DA2 and now with this it feels like they are doing it again. It seems EA just pushes this shit out whether or not it's good to go.
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PVP in this game is okay.
With one glaring exception the game feels relatively balanced in PVP. Tanks help curb any potential damage absurdity that WoW was plagued with, but WoW's engine is far better than this game's engine in regards to responsiveness.
Almost Valor 60 on my Guardian (Piro - Saber of Exar Kun) and I have been enjoying it, no feeling of "grindyness". I might start streaming group pvp with my friends if there's any interest in something like that. Big aoe crits with focus spec 
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Does this game have good end-game pve/pvp competition?
i.e. Only top guilds will be able to get top gear, or will total noobs be able to walk in and stomp everything? I've been highly considering getting this game since one of my friends has it, and I played the beta(to about level 20, it was pretty fun but perhaps because it was *new*), but if the game is only going to last me 2 months I'd rather not play it. If anyone could share some insight that'd be awesome
Thx in advance!
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EPT
