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On August 19 2011 00:32 maJes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:13 Zum_ltu wrote:On August 18 2011 23:55 maJes wrote:
Don't initiate with pred, that's for your team to do. Just clean up everyone by jumping someone during/after initiation and proceed to activate ult, stone hide and wreck everyone who can't get away. yes dont init with pred ever wich has shrun inside his ass, lifesteal and slow , and silly ulti. Better wait till all your support dies then go rampage mode. above guy plz stay at 1300 rating. or stop trolling I'm guessing you're not really that great if you resort to throwing around made up MMR as a reason for shitting all over what I posted. If your team initiation is predator you're probably not going to do very well if you're playing the pred imo, because if you are herping and derping and jumping on someone to start a teamfight you are going to get wrecked by the other team, who must have outpicked you horrendously for pred to be your only initiation. You might also want to get your glasses prescription checked friend, because I didn't say anything about letting your support feed and jumping in 5 minutes later, I distinctly said to go in after or during, which means as soon as say your tempest/behe/bubbles/whoever has ported in and activated their ulti, or as they are blinking in to do it. All that unpleasentness aside predator is a pretty strong hero Sm3agol. He's fantastic at teamfights when he enters them properly, and great at pickoffs due to leap and stonehide. Even if your team has no initiation potential he farms like a beast and as said, you can pick people off if you're patient before just rolling through the opposing team with superior items and survivability.
For real ? ok so now u got tempest behe in your team ok u win. u just gave new player tip not to init with pred. i bet he never had temp with him in team and stuff anyway i wont argue with u becouse we soon going to be picking 5 heroes on each team and theory crafting who should init who should go farm who should creep pull and stuff
anyway the above who posted pick about pre laning video is very good all new players should watch that l2 not to push lanes stack creeps ward call misses and it doesnt matter what heroes u have.
if u are new try pick witcher and pred stun leap sheep and u kill any other new player same as plague or glac swift combo
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On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o
Indeed, clan Team Liquid regularly runs inhouses which you can watch or play in (though it is important to differentiate between trolling at tryharding).
TMMing with more experienced players from clan TL should also let people guide you much better than isolated tips for solo MM
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On August 19 2011 00:40 Zum_ltu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:32 maJes wrote:On August 19 2011 00:13 Zum_ltu wrote:On August 18 2011 23:55 maJes wrote:
Don't initiate with pred, that's for your team to do. Just clean up everyone by jumping someone during/after initiation and proceed to activate ult, stone hide and wreck everyone who can't get away. yes dont init with pred ever wich has shrun inside his ass, lifesteal and slow , and silly ulti. Better wait till all your support dies then go rampage mode. above guy plz stay at 1300 rating. or stop trolling I'm guessing you're not really that great if you resort to throwing around made up MMR as a reason for shitting all over what I posted. If your team initiation is predator you're probably not going to do very well if you're playing the pred imo, because if you are herping and derping and jumping on someone to start a teamfight you are going to get wrecked by the other team, who must have outpicked you horrendously for pred to be your only initiation. You might also want to get your glasses prescription checked friend, because I didn't say anything about letting your support feed and jumping in 5 minutes later, I distinctly said to go in after or during, which means as soon as say your tempest/behe/bubbles/whoever has ported in and activated their ulti, or as they are blinking in to do it. All that unpleasentness aside predator is a pretty strong hero Sm3agol. He's fantastic at teamfights when he enters them properly, and great at pickoffs due to leap and stonehide. Even if your team has no initiation potential he farms like a beast and as said, you can pick people off if you're patient before just rolling through the opposing team with superior items and survivability. For real ? ok so now u got tempest behe in your team ok u win. u just gave new player tip not to init with pred. i bet he never had temp with him in team and stuff anyway i wont argue with u becouse we soon going to be picking 5 heroes on each team and theory crafting who should init who should go farm who should creep pull and stuff anyway the above who posted pick about pre laning video is very good all new players should watch that l2 not to push lanes stack creeps ward call misses and it doesnt matter what heroes u have. if u are new try pick witcher and pred stun leap sheep and u kill any other new player same as plague or glac swift combo
My point wasn't about theorycrafting a team, it was that there are so many initiators in the game that if predator is your only source of initiation something must have gone terribly wrong in picks, and that that's not even an issue anyway since you can avoid team fights and pick people off.
He's also not a new player. If you read this thread he's played for a little while, and asks questions about how to get better. No need to get angry or start an argument really, I just don't think you quite understood what my original point was about.
Your point about learning good lane partners is nice actually, since in lower level games you can pretty much guarantee doing well in lane with them (nobody ever seems to expect that if swiftblade/plague or swiftblade/elec are in the enemy team they could gank from the side shop in your long lane).
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On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team.
Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner.
Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth.
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On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth.
I'll see if I can find you a fun replay from some team mmr with friends I had a few days ago.
Long story short - we kick our fayde before the game begins as we put a troll vote up and accidentally all vote to pass.....so ofc the other team passes XD
Then our pred decides to go troll build - 3 steamboots into hellflower port key codex.
He dominates.
It was a funny game, even though we're not that great. Can't remember if it was CM or not.
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On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth.
I like going Frostburn into BKB, sometimes even BKB first if they have alot of stuns. Much easier to stay on opponents, and allows you to be in carefree immune mode much longer. But you might be right about how hes not the best hero for novice players, considering he needs farm.
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On August 19 2011 01:01 maJes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I'll see if I can find you a fun replay from some team mmr with friends I had a few days ago. Long story short - we kick our fayde before the game begins as we put a troll vote up and accidentally all vote to pass.....so ofc the other team passes XD Then our pred decides to go troll build - 3 steamboots into hellflower port key codex. He dominates. It was a funny game, even though we're not that great. Can't remember if it was CM or not.
Hmmmmm...now you're making me want to give him another shot. Another problem might be that I usually take him jungle at lvl 3, as that's what I've seen some other players do. Is he just not a good enough jungler to do that well enough to carry?
On August 19 2011 01:05 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I like going Frostburn into BKB, sometimes even BKB first if they have alot of stuns. Much easier to stay on opponents, and allows you to be in carefree immune mode much longer. But you might be right about how hes not the best hero for novice players, considering he needs farm.
And that is the EXACT build I go for too, I just never have been able to actually be effective. And I can get some godly farm too, between jungling and creep farming empty lanes, I've been able to get phase boots, frostburn, and bkb, I just never can do anything with him it seems. I'll jump some lone support guy, drop him down to 20 hp, and then he just runs away from me and I can't do crap about it.
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On August 19 2011 01:14 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:01 maJes wrote:On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I'll see if I can find you a fun replay from some team mmr with friends I had a few days ago. Long story short - we kick our fayde before the game begins as we put a troll vote up and accidentally all vote to pass.....so ofc the other team passes XD Then our pred decides to go troll build - 3 steamboots into hellflower port key codex. He dominates. It was a funny game, even though we're not that great. Can't remember if it was CM or not. Hmmmmm...now you're making me want to give him another shot. Another problem might be that I usually take him jungle at lvl 3, as that's what I've seen some other players do. Is he just not a good enough jungler to do that well enough to carry?
I wouldn't bother. You want two levels in leap and one in stoneskin if you're laning and pred is only good at jungling with his lifesteal. Choose one or the other for early game.
Edit:
On August 19 2011 01:14 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:05 Alur wrote:On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I like going Frostburn into BKB, sometimes even BKB first if they have alot of stuns. Much easier to stay on opponents, and allows you to be in carefree immune mode much longer. But you might be right about how hes not the best hero for novice players, considering he needs farm. And that is the EXACT build I go for too, I just never have been able to actually be effective. And I can get some godly farm too, between jungling and creep farming empty lanes, I've been able to get phase boots, frostburn, and bkb, I just never can do anything with him it seems. I'll jump some lone support guy, drop him down to 20 hp, and then he just runs away from me and I can't do crap about it.
You have ghost marchers, the slow from your leap, a frostburn, and magic immunity yet support heroes are getting away from you? Sounds like you have more serious issues.
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On August 19 2011 01:17 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:14 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 01:01 maJes wrote:On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I'll see if I can find you a fun replay from some team mmr with friends I had a few days ago. Long story short - we kick our fayde before the game begins as we put a troll vote up and accidentally all vote to pass.....so ofc the other team passes XD Then our pred decides to go troll build - 3 steamboots into hellflower port key codex. He dominates. It was a funny game, even though we're not that great. Can't remember if it was CM or not. Hmmmmm...now you're making me want to give him another shot. Another problem might be that I usually take him jungle at lvl 3, as that's what I've seen some other players do. Is he just not a good enough jungler to do that well enough to carry? I wouldn't bother. You want two levels in leap and one in stoneskin if you're laning and pred is only good at jungling with his lifesteal. Choose one or the other for early game.
Well previous to lvl 2 of his passive, he gets dropped pretty low in hp by most creeps, so I usually lane for a couple levels just sitting back, going e, q, e, and then jungling. Otherwise I end up having to go back to base sometimes before level 3 if I hit some bad creep farms( or accidently stack one of them with both monitars and cats like I did in one game ).
On August 19 2011 01:14 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:05 Alur wrote:On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I like going Frostburn into BKB, sometimes even BKB first if they have alot of stuns. Much easier to stay on opponents, and allows you to be in carefree immune mode much longer. But you might be right about how hes not the best hero for novice players, considering he needs farm. And that is the EXACT build I go for too, I just never have been able to actually be effective. And I can get some godly farm too, between jungling and creep farming empty lanes, I've been able to get phase boots, frostburn, and bkb, I just never can do anything with him it seems. I'll jump some lone support guy, drop him down to 20 hp, and then he just runs away from me and I can't do crap about it.
You have ghost marchers, the slow from your leap, a frostburn, and magic immunity yet support heroes are getting away from you? Sounds like you have more serious issues.
Ok, lets say I going to jump a plague rider. I activate stone skin and jump in. I have 5 seconds to kill him before he q's me and just flat out runs away from me. In this particular instance he also has his shield ability he can pop to survive that 5 seconds even better. I'll fully admit I might be doing something bad wrong, but it's happened quite a few times to me. Obviously if I have a support teamate to stun them to, i get the kill, but most heros can do that.
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On August 19 2011 01:22 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:17 Durak wrote:On August 19 2011 01:14 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 01:01 maJes wrote:On August 19 2011 00:52 Sm3agol wrote:On August 19 2011 00:34 Alur wrote:On August 18 2011 23:36 Sm3agol wrote:On August 18 2011 14:39 Boblion wrote:
Just started HoN tonight ( free mode ), it is my first moba and i don't really know what hero is good for a beginner.
I have tried Dampeer he seems quite cool but a bit too much glasscannon for my taste.
Nomad seems too technical for me atm, i always get killed lol but i hate to play against him.
So far i had my best success with Hellbringer. He is quite fragile and i always get shitty K/D stats but at least i don't feel the need to be agressive. I usually try to go with another hero and i can be annoying early on with the ranged attack. However once we get to mid / late game i feel really useless ( only assists ) and i get killed so fast if i'm not very careful. The only good thing is the invocation ( works well against towers ).
Some tips ? Since it is free mode i have a limited number of heroes available :o Tip #1. Don't play predator. I'm a pretty n00b player myself, and after playing random for a couple months, I am trying to focus on really learning a couple heroes well. And after about 10 games of desperately trying to make pred work.....I give up. He just sucks. He's a 1 v 1 supreme that can't actually kill anyone 1 v 1....He'll probably never lose a 1 v 1 vs anyone remotely close in lvls or items, but he has no stuns and his slow lasts about 2 seconds. So he'll get someone down to about 30% hp, and then they'll just run off and he'll never catch them. He never dies, but if your team sucks, you'll never get kills either. Just had a game last night where I was 0/1/9 in a 40 minute game. I died once while doing some jungling early, and got a few assists from initiating, but never was useful the entire game despite being involved in most teamfights. I was farmed like a beast, but never could really put it to good use. Contrast that to the witchslayer game I had immediately afterwards where i was something like 13/4/19 in the same time period. Tip #2. Don't play heroes with skill shots/complicated skill mechanics. That means valk, devourer, magmus, soul-stealer, pharoah, aluna.........you get the idea. If a hero has 3/4 abilities that pretty much need to be synced well to be fully effective, then don't play that hero. Your letting your own bad experiences corrupt your objectivity, pred is a solid hero, and with the right amount of farm he can completely plow through a team. Well then he definitely is not a beginner hero....which is what I'm saying. I'm not completely terrible at the game, and i just can't make him work as well as almost any other hero I've played. I've had carry accursed games for crying aloud, and yet I can't make pred work well enough to want to continue to put time into learning him. Sure with a proper team composition and solid play by your teamates he probably could be ok, maybe even great......but at my level, ~1550....yeah, it just doesn't happen. So stick with easier heroes than pred as a beginner. Obviously this is my advice as a 1550 newbie, so take that for what it's worth. I'll see if I can find you a fun replay from some team mmr with friends I had a few days ago. Long story short - we kick our fayde before the game begins as we put a troll vote up and accidentally all vote to pass.....so ofc the other team passes XD Then our pred decides to go troll build - 3 steamboots into hellflower port key codex. He dominates. It was a funny game, even though we're not that great. Can't remember if it was CM or not. Hmmmmm...now you're making me want to give him another shot. Another problem might be that I usually take him jungle at lvl 3, as that's what I've seen some other players do. Is he just not a good enough jungler to do that well enough to carry? I wouldn't bother. You want two levels in leap and one in stoneskin if you're laning and pred is only good at jungling with his lifesteal. Choose one or the other for early game. Well previous to lvl 2 of his passive, he gets dropped pretty low in hp by most creeps, so I usually lane for a couple levels just sitting back, going e, q, e, and then jungling. Otherwise I end up having to go back to base sometimes before level 3 if I hit some bad creep farms( or accidently stack one of them with both monitars and cats like I did in one game ).
Jungling is a different ball game. If you're just learning how to play, I'd avoid it.
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On August 19 2011 01:22 Sm3agol wrote:
Ok, lets say I going to jump a plague rider. I activate stone skin and jump in. I have 5 seconds to kill him before he q's me and just flat out runs away from me. In this particular instance he also has his shield ability he can pop to survive that 5 seconds even better. I'll fully admit I might be doing something bad wrong, but it's happened quite a few times to me. Obviously if I have a support teamate to stun them to, i get the kill, but most heros can do that.
You're pred. You intitiate by leaping onto plague rider: instantly closing the distance with a nuke and 40% MS slow. PR's q animation is slow so you turn on your instant magic immunity before he can nuke you, or, you get nuked somehow because you're slow at using it and then you turn it on to dispel the 35% MS slow of PR's nuke. Regardless, you're right next to PR who has a 40% MS slow. Then, you turn on your ult instantly for +15%MS, at least -2 armor, and +attack speed. You start beating on PR with your frostburn which provides a 5% stacking ms slow up to 15% and passively gives you 15% ms.
The second you leap on plague rider, he is 50% slowed and you have bonus movement speed and attack speed. In addition, plague rider usually doesn't have ghost marchers, and if he does then he'll just be more squishy.
Plague rider is the easiest hero for predator to kill. The only thing he can do is pop a homecoming stone the second he sees you leap and hopefully he's farmed enough so that he doesn't die before he finishes teleporting.
Edit: clean-up
Edit2: PR isn't actually the easiest hero for pred to kill but I mean to emphasize how easy it is. 
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On August 19 2011 01:41 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:22 Sm3agol wrote:
Ok, lets say I going to jump a plague rider. I activate stone skin and jump in. I have 5 seconds to kill him before he q's me and just flat out runs away from me. In this particular instance he also has his shield ability he can pop to survive that 5 seconds even better. I'll fully admit I might be doing something bad wrong, but it's happened quite a few times to me. Obviously if I have a support teamate to stun them to, i get the kill, but most heros can do that. You're pred. You intitiate by leaping onto plague rider: instantly closing the distance with a nuke and 40% MS slow. PR's q animation is slow so you turn on your instant magic immunity before he can nuke you, or, you get nuked somehow because you're slow at using it and then you turn it on to dispel the 35% MS slow of PR's nuke. Regardless, you're right next to PR who has a 40% MS slow. Then, you turn on your ult instantly for +15%MS, at least -2 armor, and +attack speed. You start beating on PR with your frostburn which provides a 5% stacking ms slow up to 15% and passively gives you 15% ms. The second you leap on plague rider, he is 50% slowed and you have bonus movement speed and attack speed. In addition, plague rider usually doesn't have ghost marchers, and if he does then he'll just be more squishy. Plague rider is the easiest hero for predator to kill. The only thing he can do is pop a homecoming stone the second he sees you leap and hopefully he's farmed enough so that he doesn't die before he finishes teleporting. Edit: clean-up Edit2: PR isn't actually the easiest hero for pred to kill but I mean to emphasize how easy it is.
So you're suggesting I ulti just to gank a lone PR? 0_o I definitely haven't been doing that. But then i tend to be overprotective of ultis. Maybe i should try that more often.
I also should add i didn't usually go full frostburn on pred, I've just been stopping at icebrand. Didn't realize that firebrand gave me a MS bonus on top of the MS slow that icebrand gives you. Lulz to me, the more you know.
Also, doesn't PR shield ability slow attackers?
Edit: it does, according to the honwiki. Quite a bit too. all
-20 Attack Speed, 30% Movement Slow for 2 seconds on attacker upon hitting.
So PR could definitely escape if you couldn't drop him in about 5-7 seconds or didn't ulti?
Edit: multiple edits for clarity.
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On August 18 2011 04:11 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 03:41 rabidch wrote:
2 minute predictions
EHOME
M5
iG
MYM
SGC
MiTH
Nv.cn
MUFC <11:53:52> "rabidch" : WHATEVER <11:53:56> "rabidch" : ICEICEICE HAS THIS <11:55:08> "rabidch" : FUCK ICEICEICE WOW his powers of clairvoyance are amazing
i predicted M5 would win. i was wrong, you were right, Santa drags that entire team down
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On August 19 2011 01:51 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 01:41 Durak wrote:On August 19 2011 01:22 Sm3agol wrote:
Ok, lets say I going to jump a plague rider. I activate stone skin and jump in. I have 5 seconds to kill him before he q's me and just flat out runs away from me. In this particular instance he also has his shield ability he can pop to survive that 5 seconds even better. I'll fully admit I might be doing something bad wrong, but it's happened quite a few times to me. Obviously if I have a support teamate to stun them to, i get the kill, but most heros can do that. You're pred. You intitiate by leaping onto plague rider: instantly closing the distance with a nuke and 40% MS slow. PR's q animation is slow so you turn on your instant magic immunity before he can nuke you, or, you get nuked somehow because you're slow at using it and then you turn it on to dispel the 35% MS slow of PR's nuke. Regardless, you're right next to PR who has a 40% MS slow. Then, you turn on your ult instantly for +15%MS, at least -2 armor, and +attack speed. You start beating on PR with your frostburn which provides a 5% stacking ms slow up to 15% and passively gives you 15% ms. The second you leap on plague rider, he is 50% slowed and you have bonus movement speed and attack speed. In addition, plague rider usually doesn't have ghost marchers, and if he does then he'll just be more squishy. Plague rider is the easiest hero for predator to kill. The only thing he can do is pop a homecoming stone the second he sees you leap and hopefully he's farmed enough so that he doesn't die before he finishes teleporting. Edit: clean-up Edit2: PR isn't actually the easiest hero for pred to kill but I mean to emphasize how easy it is. So you're suggesting I ulti just to gank a lone PR? 0_o I definitely haven't been doing that. But then i tend to be overprotective of ultis. I also should add i didn't usually go full frostburn on pred, I've just been stopping at icebrand. Didn't realize that firebrand gave me a MS bonus on top of the MS slow that icebrand gives you. Lulz to me, the more you know. Also, doesn't PR shield ability slow attackers? Edit: it does, according to the honwiki. Quite a bit too. all -20 Attack Speed, 30% Movement Slow for 2 seconds upon hitting.
Yeah, but that's not a common scenario. Plague Rider doesn't have his armor until later in the game. By that time, you're a carry of death and he's still a weak support ward bitch. Even if he does have his armor on, once you leap on him you're going to get the 15% MS slow from frostburn and then he can't get away from you -- even if he has ghost marchers and you have steam boots.
Edit: And no, he still wouldn't be able to run from you even if you, in the unlikely event, didn't have the dps to kill him in the first 5 seconds.
P.S. Your ult has a 60s CD. Use it gratuitously.
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Plague rider just owns melee carries all game. Not much you can do about it - his shield totally negates pred's ult - the armor component is almost always higher than the -, and I believe generally slows pred more than the ult helps. PR also moves at 320 base MS so if you don't kill him during the slow he will generally just walk away, unless you can keep up enough for a second leap (via phase boots or some other means).
Other supports don't pose the same issue - Glacius, WS, VJ, etc. all get shredded by pred if they're out of position (do watch out for voodoo's ult - it's physical).
edit : Basically if you have 4 + levels on Plague or if he doesn't have shield yet pred can kill him easily (Plague's vary on this - sometime's it's as early as 4, sometimes as late as 8). Personally if I'm against a predator as plague rider I only get one point in the extinguish and max armor by 8-9 - it really destroys physical damage melee carries.
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On August 19 2011 02:04 Nevuk wrote:
Plague rider just owns melee carries all game. Not much you can do about it - his shield totally negates pred's ult - the armor component is almost always higher than the -, and I believe generally slows pred more than the ult helps. PR also moves at 320 base MS so if you don't kill him during the slow he will generally just walk away, unless you can keep up enough for a second leap (via phase boots or some other means).
Other supports don't pose the same issue - Glacius, WS, VJ, etc. all get shredded by pred if they're out of position (do watch out for voodoo's ult - it's physical).
If you want to make completely baseless statements, we'll do it that way.
Plague rider gets destroyed early game by predator. Plague rider only has his slow at that point which is useless against predator.
Plague rider gets chased down by a ghostmarcher icebrand predator at any point mid-game.
Plague rider gets destroyed by pred late game. Predator will kill him within seconds.
Okay so when does plague rider own predator?
Edit: Even if you take it to the extreme and say that both heroes are getting hard-carry-level farm all game, PR can never do anything against Predator. This shouldn't even be a discussion.
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On August 19 2011 02:10 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 02:04 Nevuk wrote:
Plague rider just owns melee carries all game. Not much you can do about it - his shield totally negates pred's ult - the armor component is almost always higher than the -, and I believe generally slows pred more than the ult helps. PR also moves at 320 base MS so if you don't kill him during the slow he will generally just walk away, unless you can keep up enough for a second leap (via phase boots or some other means).
Other supports don't pose the same issue - Glacius, WS, VJ, etc. all get shredded by pred if they're out of position (do watch out for voodoo's ult - it's physical).
If you want to make completely baseless statements, we'll do it that way. Plague rider gets destroyed early game by predator. Plague rider only has his slow at that point which is useless against predator. Plague rider gets chased down by a ghostmarcher icebrand predator at any point mid-game. Plague rider gets destroyed by pred late game. Predator will kill him within seconds. Okay so when does plague rider own predator? Edit: Even if you take it to the extreme and say that both heroes are getting hard-carry-level farm all game, PR can never do anything against Predator. This shouldn't even be a discussion.
Plague rider makes his TEAM own predator. He's also probably one of the better equipped supports for not dying to him.
edit:
Also, why are you calling my statements baseless when the evidence was in the post? There's no need to be quite so insulting. What your post appears to be about is that my conclusion is wrong, not that I had no evidence (which is what "completely baseless means." Being completely baseless would have to be to the extent of me coming in and saying something like "plague rider... he's really slow man, and his wings don't do anything"
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On August 19 2011 02:32 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 02:10 Durak wrote:On August 19 2011 02:04 Nevuk wrote:
Plague rider just owns melee carries all game. Not much you can do about it - his shield totally negates pred's ult - the armor component is almost always higher than the -, and I believe generally slows pred more than the ult helps. PR also moves at 320 base MS so if you don't kill him during the slow he will generally just walk away, unless you can keep up enough for a second leap (via phase boots or some other means).
Other supports don't pose the same issue - Glacius, WS, VJ, etc. all get shredded by pred if they're out of position (do watch out for voodoo's ult - it's physical).
If you want to make completely baseless statements, we'll do it that way. Plague rider gets destroyed early game by predator. Plague rider only has his slow at that point which is useless against predator. Plague rider gets chased down by a ghostmarcher icebrand predator at any point mid-game. Plague rider gets destroyed by pred late game. Predator will kill him within seconds. Okay so when does plague rider own predator? Edit: Even if you take it to the extreme and say that both heroes are getting hard-carry-level farm all game, PR can never do anything against Predator. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Plague rider makes his TEAM own predator. He's also probably one of the better equipped supports for not dying to him. Also, i'm about 80% sure that his slow goes through stone skin.
Stoneskin removes debuffs.
I'm not trying to say PR is a bad hero. His skills are very useful. But you guys are theorycrafting perfect scenarios for plague rider owning predator. That's not how it works out in a real game. Yes, plague rider's armor is useful against predator. Yes, plague rider still gets eaten alive by predator. Predator is a hard carry with a magic immune skill, a leap with a 40% ms slow, an -armor, +as, +ms ult, and lifesteal. A support hero that does all magic damage isn't going to do anything against him.
Edit: I'm not trying to be insulting but I meant your comments were baseless because they're just implausible theorycraft. You guys are probably just thinking, "I was predator and plague rider ran away from me with ghost marchers. Why can't I catch anyone?" and "I was playing plague rider solo mid against predator mid. He was 1600 MMR and I was 1750 MMR so I completely outclassed him. PR>Pred." Those aren't statements of proof nor evidence for an argument.
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On August 19 2011 02:36 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 02:32 Nevuk wrote:On August 19 2011 02:10 Durak wrote:On August 19 2011 02:04 Nevuk wrote:
Plague rider just owns melee carries all game. Not much you can do about it - his shield totally negates pred's ult - the armor component is almost always higher than the -, and I believe generally slows pred more than the ult helps. PR also moves at 320 base MS so if you don't kill him during the slow he will generally just walk away, unless you can keep up enough for a second leap (via phase boots or some other means).
Other supports don't pose the same issue - Glacius, WS, VJ, etc. all get shredded by pred if they're out of position (do watch out for voodoo's ult - it's physical).
If you want to make completely baseless statements, we'll do it that way. Plague rider gets destroyed early game by predator. Plague rider only has his slow at that point which is useless against predator. Plague rider gets chased down by a ghostmarcher icebrand predator at any point mid-game. Plague rider gets destroyed by pred late game. Predator will kill him within seconds. Okay so when does plague rider own predator? Edit: Even if you take it to the extreme and say that both heroes are getting hard-carry-level farm all game, PR can never do anything against Predator. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Plague rider makes his TEAM own predator. He's also probably one of the better equipped supports for not dying to him. Also, i'm about 80% sure that his slow goes through stone skin. Stoneskin removes debuffs. I'm not trying to say PR is a bad hero. His skills are very useful. But you guys are theorycrafting perfect scenarios for plague rider owning predator. That's not how it works out in a real game. Yes, plague rider's armor is useful against predator. Yes, plague rider still gets eaten alive by predator. Predator is a hard carry with a magic immune skill, a leap with a 40% ms slow, an -armor, +as, +ms ult, and lifesteal. A support hero that does all magic damage isn't going to do anything against him.
I just tested - stoneskin blocks the armor slow. Strange, always thought it went through bkb.
In a teamfight predator frequently wants to leap a high hp hero who he can leech a lot of hp off of, +12 armor really hurts his orb, and the second his stoneskin is off he's -30% ms and -20 attack speed - if this is put on the high hp heroes and the carries, it doesn't really matter if plague rider gets owned 1v1 by predator. The 12 armor reduces the effectiveness of predator's lifeleech massively.
It's very true that 12 armor usually comes in later than the deciding moments of the game, though.
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yeah, i don't really get this -- how does a support walk away from a predator with phase and a super short cd blink&slow? even without any items, you can leap on them, when the slow runs out you phase to keep up, and im pretty sure by the time the phase is over, your leap is up again. if somehow that's not enough, you get a slowing item.. and any slows put on you, you just laugh it off with your built-in bkb.
then there's your ult.
pred really shouldn't have trouble chasing almost anybody (which is what all of this started with -- why are you bringing up effectiveness of PR's armor vs carnivorous?)
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EPT
