EPTOn June 26 2025 01:28 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
So how is the patch ? Are Stormgates fun ?
So how is the patch ? Are Stormgates fun ?
Suprisingly fun! Ofc needs a lot of work and tuning.
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 234
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Purple_hu
4 Posts
Suprisingly fun! Ofc needs a lot of work and tuning. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
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Agh
United States1045 Posts
On June 26 2025 01:28 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So how is the patch ? Are Stormgates fun ? No different. I'd prefer creeps(with improvements) + stormgates. Stormgates actually leave a net negative feeling over positive, since they lean win more all the way to auto-win if you get clone(s) and the right timing. Oh you just got your first Dragon/Hellcarrier/Archangel? Duped. x2 or x3 if you held an early one. Can absolutely ruin an otherwise close and satisfying game. Also the existence of the production boost promotes uninteresting cookie cutter base layout and optimization. Aside from that... Brutes still too strong. Shocker. Celestial economy still has a scaling issue. Plus we're back to ardent spamming being objectively the best strategy. Not really sure how they arrived at the idea to power creep a unit then give it more utility. Vanguard still lacks ability to trade. They either win hard or die (usually the latter). At this point I'm convinced they don't have anyone on their team that can play the game at a meaningful level to begin to understand the balance intricacies (or just fun/enjoyment in general) for competitive play. Also have to avoid somebody like David Kim who will do more harm than good, but at the very least be able to filter out the (biased) feedback. The only real positive is change this patch was the removal of top bar and baking it into the Town halls. It just leads to more strategy and build diversity which is ironically the opposite of making the game "more simple" per their reasoning. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
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Agh
United States1045 Posts
On June 27 2025 09:17 CicadaSC wrote: Does anyone know if stormgate will still run an ESPORTS circuit? They havent said that their plans were cancelled but we know Torch the guy running it left the company, and so I was just curious. With their current cycle the game is at least two years away from being competitive ready, and even then I feel that's being extremely generous. Having anything like the Tasteless tournament again will just do infinitely more harm that good until it's in a proper state. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
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Agh
United States1045 Posts
On June 27 2025 22:16 _Spartak_ wrote: Well, if they have any esports plans they will not wait 2 years, that's for sure. They don't have that sort of time/budget. They will be releasing the 1.0 version later this year and if it is a hit, it is a hit. If not, c'est la vie. ..What? They aren't going to make the same mistake twice. Despite the shit that it's somewhat deservedly getting, the game has immense potential. It's also pretty much the last hope for a new age traditional* RTS. (*in both senses as in 15 years a few people will be able to make it themselves). Balance aside, once the game is "finished" costs drastically reduce, which is why you see every studio axe their workforce after release. It will take very little to maintain at that point, which unless seriously bungled will be taken care of from mtx. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19352 Posts
1. I found worker management to by very frustrating. Grabbing and selecting workers to distribute them to the two types of resources felt intuitive. 2. Selecting a worker to build is basically not a thing. You're supposed to just select build and the closest worker gets the job done. I'm not sure if I hate this or not lol. I like selecting builders  3. I would have loved to rebind-ed keys to have stuff make sense for me, but it seems like it breaks too much of their system. Currently the binding doesn't jive with my play style. 4. It's weird having all the units from all the facilities bound to a selection. Maybe it's nice, but I'm not a fan of it right away. I think overall, because the changes made things too easy/different it was actually harder for me to adapt to. I've got over 20 years of habits I'm supposed to give up. I'll try to keep an open mind and play the next patch though. | ||
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BeoMulf
United States94 Posts
On June 28 2025 03:03 BisuDagger wrote: I've only played a few games and it was on the previous patch, but my initial feelings come from the really different Input system. 1. I found worker management to by very frustrating. Grabbing and selecting workers to distribute them to the two types of resources felt intuitive. 2. Selecting a worker to build is basically not a thing. You're supposed to just select build and the closest worker gets the job done. I'm not sure if I hate this or not lol. I like selecting builders 3. I would have loved to rebind-ed keys to have stuff make sense for me, but it seems like it breaks too much of their system. Currently the binding doesn't jive with my play style. 4. It's weird having all the units from all the facilities bound to a selection. Maybe it's nice, but I'm not a fan of it right away. I think overall, because the changes made things too easy/different it was actually harder for me to adapt to. I've got over 20 years of habits I'm supposed to give up. I'll try to keep an open mind and play the next patch though. 1. I obviously come from an SC2 perspective, not BW or anything else, but what about boxing workers to send them to separate resources is frustrating? I haven't really found too many issues with that 2. You can definitely select a worker to build things - just select them and press the build hotkey. There is currently an unfortunate interaction where quick macro commands can override direct worker commands. Is that what you're dealing with? 3. Every hotkey is individually bindable now (finally! Added like 2 months ago). Have you changed the drop down under "Style" in hotkeys to "By Command" instead of "Grid?" Grid holds it to the grid standard that they were working with from Day 1, but By Command lets you set custom hotkeys for each and every command in the game, across game modes. 4. If you're talking about the defualt '0' control group, that's certainly something that's editable. I really like the auto control groups, but you can just press the "Clear all Categories" button to totally wipe them and not play with them | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19352 Posts
On June 28 2025 05:24 BeoMulf wrote: 1. I obviously come from an SC2 perspective, not BW or anything else, but what about boxing workers to send them to separate resources is frustrating? I haven't really found too many issues with that 2. You can definitely select a worker to build things - just select them and press the build hotkey. There is currently an unfortunate interaction where quick macro commands can override direct worker commands. Is that what you're dealing with? 3. Every hotkey is individually bindable now (finally! Added like 2 months ago). Have you changed the drop down under "Style" in hotkeys to "By Command" instead of "Grid?" Grid holds it to the grid standard that they were working with from Day 1, but By Command lets you set custom hotkeys for each and every command in the game, across game modes. 4. If you're talking about the defualt '0' control group, that's certainly something that's editable. I really like the auto control groups, but you can just press the "Clear all Categories" button to totally wipe them and not play with them Thanks for this feedback! I’ll give it all a try. I definitely gotta get comfortable with my keyboard and mouse on the game before I feel I can give it an honest opinion, so I’ll put some effort into customizing everything. Cheers! | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
On June 28 2025 01:12 Agh wrote: ..What? They aren't going to make the same mistake twice. Despite the shit that it's somewhat deservedly getting, the game has immense potential. It's also pretty much the last hope for a new age traditional* RTS. (*in both senses as in 15 years a few people will be able to make it themselves). Balance aside, once the game is "finished" costs drastically reduce, which is why you see every studio axe their workforce after release. It will take very little to maintain at that point, which unless seriously bungled will be taken care of from mtx. It wouldn't be a "mistake" since it is not really a choice. They don't have the funds remaining to develop the game for 2 more years as it stands. They need to release 1.0 and hope that brings in a lot of players/revenue so that they can keep developing the game further. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2396 Posts
On June 28 2025 05:24 BeoMulf wrote: 1. I obviously come from an SC2 perspective, not BW or anything else, but what about boxing workers to send them to separate resources is frustrating? I haven't really found too many issues with that 2. You can definitely select a worker to build things - just select them and press the build hotkey. There is currently an unfortunate interaction where quick macro commands can override direct worker commands. Is that what you're dealing with? 3. Every hotkey is individually bindable now (finally! Added like 2 months ago). Have you changed the drop down under "Style" in hotkeys to "By Command" instead of "Grid?" Grid holds it to the grid standard that they were working with from Day 1, but By Command lets you set custom hotkeys for each and every command in the game, across game modes. 4. If you're talking about the defualt '0' control group, that's certainly something that's editable. I really like the auto control groups, but you can just press the "Clear all Categories" button to totally wipe them and not play with them the workers all overlap on top of eachother on the gold mine and the hitbox for clicking the workers is smaller than they actually look so its very hard to do it accurately; i found myself turning back on the quick macro because its too hard to select my workers and build something quickly also if i select some scvs and try to queue up 3 depots they all try to build 1 and the other 2 dont get built | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
On June 28 2025 09:34 Scarlett` wrote: the workers all overlap on top of eachother on the gold mine and the hitbox for clicking the workers is smaller than they actually look so its very hard to do it accurately; i found myself turning back on the quick macro because its too hard to select my workers and build something quickly also if i select some scvs and try to queue up 3 depots they all try to build 1 and the other 2 dont get built You play brood war, you learn to not just fight the player, but fight the engine and game itself. It is a great thing and part of skill expression. As a pro gamer you should know this better than anyone we call it a "feature" not a "bug." It's what made smash melee still loved after all these years. These sort of things you outlined I love. So then u gotta tell your workers to build 1 by 1. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On June 28 2025 08:47 CicadaSC wrote: I think they need to just do esports ASAP as a marketing tool. You don't even need to spend money really just make a war chest or compendium system and host it all as an online tournament. It’s not close to being finished. And I think quite a big chunk of those potentially interested are waiting for that now. I enjoyed watching the tourney Tasteless et al hosted, but the game is completely unrecognisable now to then, so I mean what did that ultimately accomplish? SC2 had beta tournaments, but the game was pretty much as it was going to be at launch, and you’re building hype for a release that’s going to be very similar | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On June 28 2025 10:16 CicadaSC wrote: You play brood war, you learn to not just fight the player, but fight the engine and game itself. It is a great thing and part of skill expression. As a pro gamer you should know this better than anyone we call it a "feature" not a "bug." It's what made smash melee still loved after all these years. These sort of things you outlined I love. So then u gotta tell your workers to build 1 by 1. Brood War wasn’t built this century. It wasn’t built around 300 APM monsters. ‘Bugs’ can be features, but they have to be fun or add depth. Strafe jumping in Quake or whatever. One of Stormgate’s selling points is good QoL and not fighting the UI all the time. I think in general they do a good job. I think at times quick build introduces un-intuitive behaviour, and trying to do it the ‘Starcraft way’ likewise. Which is something I think they need to fix. Broodwar is mechanically difficult but, pretty intuitive, SG is much easier but at times un-intuitive and wonky. Especially given it’s a love-letter to Blizz RTS games, for building to work differently is strange. | ||
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BeoMulf
United States94 Posts
On June 28 2025 09:34 Scarlett` wrote: the workers all overlap on top of eachother on the gold mine and the hitbox for clicking the workers is smaller than they actually look so its very hard to do it accurately; i found myself turning back on the quick macro because its too hard to select my workers and build something quickly also if i select some scvs and try to queue up 3 depots they all try to build 1 and the other 2 dont get built Yeah that's fair - and extra annoying with vanguard. I haven't had too many issues clicking one single worker to send on its way, and I'm just boxing and shift clicking the command card to get the number of workers I want - which is pretty much what I do in SC2 as well. Maybe that just exposed bad mechanics more than anything else 😅 | ||
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Agh
United States1045 Posts
On June 28 2025 09:34 Scarlett` wrote: the workers all overlap on top of eachother on the gold mine and the hitbox for clicking the workers is smaller than they actually look so its very hard to do it accurately; i found myself turning back on the quick macro because its too hard to select my workers and build something quickly also if i select some scvs and try to queue up 3 depots they all try to build 1 and the other 2 dont get built To be fair they somehow bugged it this patch. The worker and goldmine both have smaller than intended hitboxes. Regarding the farms/depots I actually found that logical so it didn't bother me. Quick macro behaves in the method you want though. On June 28 2025 11:43 BeoMulf wrote: Yeah that's fair - and extra annoying with vanguard. I haven't had too many issues clicking one single worker to send on its way, and I'm just boxing and shift clicking the command card to get the number of workers I want - which is pretty much what I do in SC2 as well. Maybe that just exposed bad mechanics more than anything else 😅 I still haven't fully broken the habit but unless you're speed building with multiple servos it's objectively bad from an APM standpoint not to use the quick macro, as it's literally double the actions + added precision with selection plus queue command to return. | ||
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BeoMulf
United States94 Posts
On June 28 2025 20:23 Agh wrote: To be fair they somehow bugged it this patch. The worker and goldmine both have smaller than intended hitboxes. Regarding the farms/depots I actually found that logical so it didn't bother me. Quick macro behaves in the method you want though. I still haven't fully broken the habit but unless you're speed building with multiple servos it's objectively bad from an APM standpoint not to use the quick macro, as it's literally double the actions + added precision with selection plus queue command to return. I primarily use quick macro for most things - the exception is early game structures where you're trying to optimize everything (imps that have delivered lumite, prepull worker so it gets to your natural at exactly 300 luminite, etc). | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19352 Posts
On June 28 2025 09:34 Scarlett` wrote: the workers all overlap on top of eachother on the gold mine and the hitbox for clicking the workers is smaller than they actually look so its very hard to do it accurately; i found myself turning back on the quick macro because its too hard to select my workers and build something quickly also if i select some scvs and try to queue up 3 depots they all try to build 1 and the other 2 dont get built That’s the same I was experiencing. The overlap and small hit box could be tweaked. | ||
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