On June 29 2025 11:16 CicadaSC wrote: I'm really hoping we get esports at 1.0 even if the player count is ~1000 they just fund it with a war chest or compendium where you can choose to support the circuit, maybe like you get an army accent doesn't have to be something super crazy that takes away from dev time and that money gets put into the esports prize pool. Then, you host it online and have a community caster such as beomulf, or aureil or anyone else who wants to cast it. 0 production cost and the competitive scene is satisfied. Thoughts? You could even do it for 3v3 mayhem mode if you want up to the team and the community if that is just a for fun mode or if they wanna make it competitive.
Again, it doesn't need to be a big thing, but my point is it's SOMETHING at least. What does frost giant get out of this? They get marketing. They get players logging on more consistently to practice too. Before they said they wanted to do esports, they haven't said they don't wanna do esports anymore but it has been silence so there is a bit of a question mark in the air if it's still actually happening or not. I believe they said they wanted the competitive esports circuit to coincide with major patches or campaign chapter being released and I think it is a really good idea.
Thoughts guys?
pro scene? they would need way more viewers to even be considered by tournament organiser
No tournament organizer. They do it themself.
If you are talking about some online tourney then sure. Offline? It's not cheap at all.
On July 01 2025 10:32 RogerChillingworth wrote: If people want to reignite at least a little bit of hype for themselves, D.O.R.F. seems pretty cool to me so far. They've been uploading to their YT recently. Obv not the first time someone's brought up DORF, but just sayin. It's not a Blizz-style RTS, so it probably won't scratch that itch, but it's a cool project that's coming along nicely. The only thing is I have no clue when it'll be playable. I was thinking of making a separate thread for it but have been too lazy.
Somehow that game showed up on my feed with their recent video. Pretty damn nice looking and physics, not sure if it's my type of RTS but I am gonna give it a go for sure.
On July 01 2025 10:50 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yes that first trailer was lit, but I was on the Stormgate koolaid kart at the time so I kinda dismissed it. Not trying to get on another hype train only to be disappointed but it seems like unencumbered fun. Definitely C&C style but possibly emanating a lil WC2 sizzle dizzle, with an added lil injection of LSD/liquid nitro straight into the nostrils.
But nah, idk. gotta appreciate 2 people making a 2D RTS with some style. My only big criticism, just related to personal taste, is that it's another game that doesn't emphasize micro, or so it seems. Not a single modern RTS seems to be doin that and I think there's just a huge gap for it but oh well.
I dunno why, it’s fun as fuck to micro. It’s a big part of why I’m such a fan of Blizz RTS games
I’ve played so many 7/10 games in the genre at this point that could have been 9s or 10s but the micro was garbage.
Look we’re going off clips, but even from there DORF has silly, enjoyable spectacle. Everything that Stormgate lacks. I imagine 100% DORF doesn’t handle as well as Stormgate.
I remember some record label would commission different artists to just hole up for a week or two and do an EP together, and sometimes it was awful and sometimes great. I feel Stormgate’s increasing technical chops, allied to something more ‘fun’ would kick arse
On July 01 2025 10:50 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yes that first trailer was lit, but I was on the Stormgate koolaid kart at the time so I kinda dismissed it. Not trying to get on another hype train only to be disappointed but it seems like unencumbered fun. Definitely C&C style but possibly emanating a lil WC2 sizzle dizzle, with an added lil injection of LSD/liquid nitro straight into the nostrils.
But nah, idk. gotta appreciate 2 people making a 2D RTS with some style. My only big criticism, just related to personal taste, is that it's another game that doesn't emphasize micro, or so it seems. Not a single modern RTS seems to be doin that and I think there's just a huge gap for it but oh well.
I dunno why, it’s fun as fuck to micro. It’s a big part of why I’m such a fan of Blizz RTS games
I’ve played so many 7/10 games in the genre at this point that could have been 9s or 10s but the micro was garbage.
Look we’re going off clips, but even from there DORF has silly, enjoyable spectacle. Everything that Stormgate lacks. I imagine 100% DORF doesn’t handle as well as Stormgate.
I remember some record label would commission different artists to just hole up for a week or two and do an EP together, and sometimes it was awful and sometimes great. I feel Stormgate’s increasing technical chops, allied to something more ‘fun’ would kick arse
Ye. I think what bothers me is that there's just so much you can do with RTS but we keep getting recycled ideas. It's a shame. And it's not just Stormgate. Just generally feel like everything's a remake, and no one is really innovating. Wouldn't put Battle Aces in the RTS category, although they did try something a little different. Just wasn't for me, and I think they dropped the ball on the few things they did go for.
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think. As in, it seems to be all we get but we'd all be pleasantly surprised with a great alternative. You can have a game that acknowledges the kind of micro management a player like Boxer or Moon or Grubby or whoever would really appreciate, while also acknowledging the kind of intense macro other players would really appreciate. These things don't have to be in the same spoonful every time, but can absolutely be in the same game.
It's just too bad. I'd love to see the long-time fans get something worthy of their wait. Admittedly, it isn't an easy task for a development team, but that doesn't mean people should settle for anything less. If your goal is to make a followup to StarCraft, or a Blizz-style RTS that inherits the fandom and communities of these games, then you must make a game as good or better than those classics of 20 years ago—hopefully better—or you won't and should not succeed. In my opninon, the people capable of doing this are either those who have been cooking for 10+ years on their own worlds, and/or those who fundamentally understand what made StarCraft 1 and Warcraft III great and can iterate and innovate correctly.
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
I think it's Stormgates biggest issue atm. Big fights are boring because players are not rewarded for doing noticeable movement-based micro. I think Battle Aces had a similar issue. Big armies walking into each other.
However, I think big army engagements can work but it requires that different type of unit design as to what we have now. The simplest solution is to add more AOE abilities and make their effects significant. In general I believe in as few abilities as possible to keep the game simple but make each ability very powerful.
It needs to be possible to turn a fight around with well-placed abilities or accurate and fast movement-based micro (e.g. dodging enemy abilities). But at the same time the gameplay cannot be too snowbally so making a single split-second error (and thus losing the team-fight) should not lose you the game.
The original concept appeared to be that the game will be more forgiving by reducing damage for both abilities and normal aa relative to Sc2. And while I am kinda fine with the latter, abilities need to be exciting and lethal. And as a consequence battles can be very volatile.
On July 01 2025 10:50 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yes that first trailer was lit, but I was on the Stormgate koolaid kart at the time so I kinda dismissed it. Not trying to get on another hype train only to be disappointed but it seems like unencumbered fun. Definitely C&C style but possibly emanating a lil WC2 sizzle dizzle, with an added lil injection of LSD/liquid nitro straight into the nostrils.
But nah, idk. gotta appreciate 2 people making a 2D RTS with some style. My only big criticism, just related to personal taste, is that it's another game that doesn't emphasize micro, or so it seems. Not a single modern RTS seems to be doin that and I think there's just a huge gap for it but oh well.
I dunno why, it’s fun as fuck to micro. It’s a big part of why I’m such a fan of Blizz RTS games
I’ve played so many 7/10 games in the genre at this point that could have been 9s or 10s but the micro was garbage.
Look we’re going off clips, but even from there DORF has silly, enjoyable spectacle. Everything that Stormgate lacks. I imagine 100% DORF doesn’t handle as well as Stormgate.
I remember some record label would commission different artists to just hole up for a week or two and do an EP together, and sometimes it was awful and sometimes great. I feel Stormgate’s increasing technical chops, allied to something more ‘fun’ would kick arse
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
well in SC1 it is mostly attack moving with limited spell casters. I don't think adding more spell or abilities is as cool as people think either...
personally I think that sounds like a headache to control. SC2 strikes a good balance and stormgate isnt far off. A move with dark prophecy, or exo lancer with some sentinels to lock down key units etc.
On July 01 2025 10:50 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yes that first trailer was lit, but I was on the Stormgate koolaid kart at the time so I kinda dismissed it. Not trying to get on another hype train only to be disappointed but it seems like unencumbered fun. Definitely C&C style but possibly emanating a lil WC2 sizzle dizzle, with an added lil injection of LSD/liquid nitro straight into the nostrils.
But nah, idk. gotta appreciate 2 people making a 2D RTS with some style. My only big criticism, just related to personal taste, is that it's another game that doesn't emphasize micro, or so it seems. Not a single modern RTS seems to be doin that and I think there's just a huge gap for it but oh well.
I dunno why, it’s fun as fuck to micro. It’s a big part of why I’m such a fan of Blizz RTS games
I’ve played so many 7/10 games in the genre at this point that could have been 9s or 10s but the micro was garbage.
Look we’re going off clips, but even from there DORF has silly, enjoyable spectacle. Everything that Stormgate lacks. I imagine 100% DORF doesn’t handle as well as Stormgate.
I remember some record label would commission different artists to just hole up for a week or two and do an EP together, and sometimes it was awful and sometimes great. I feel Stormgate’s increasing technical chops, allied to something more ‘fun’ would kick arse
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
well in SC1 it is mostly attack moving with limited spell casters. I don't think adding more spell or abilities is as cool as people think either...
personally I think that sounds like a headache to control. SC2 strikes a good balance and stormgate isnt far off. A move with dark prophecy, or exo lancer with some sentinels to lock down key units etc.
Sc1 half the units have their own micro or control to make them function not like morons. Goon control being an obvious example, vulture micro, muta micro etcetc. Their unit control becomes functional efficiency multipliers which is what makes SC1 not just attack move. A pro will beat my ass with half the number of vultures because mine will never shoot, because I don't know how to control the damn things... compare to sc2 where I've got a fighting chance vs Serral if I've got 20 lings and he's got 10. Its not the spells, its the fact that half the units in the game are dramatically worse if you just a-move. This isn't true of most other RTS, which is why deathball happens.
On July 01 2025 10:50 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yes that first trailer was lit, but I was on the Stormgate koolaid kart at the time so I kinda dismissed it. Not trying to get on another hype train only to be disappointed but it seems like unencumbered fun. Definitely C&C style but possibly emanating a lil WC2 sizzle dizzle, with an added lil injection of LSD/liquid nitro straight into the nostrils.
But nah, idk. gotta appreciate 2 people making a 2D RTS with some style. My only big criticism, just related to personal taste, is that it's another game that doesn't emphasize micro, or so it seems. Not a single modern RTS seems to be doin that and I think there's just a huge gap for it but oh well.
I dunno why, it’s fun as fuck to micro. It’s a big part of why I’m such a fan of Blizz RTS games
I’ve played so many 7/10 games in the genre at this point that could have been 9s or 10s but the micro was garbage.
Look we’re going off clips, but even from there DORF has silly, enjoyable spectacle. Everything that Stormgate lacks. I imagine 100% DORF doesn’t handle as well as Stormgate.
I remember some record label would commission different artists to just hole up for a week or two and do an EP together, and sometimes it was awful and sometimes great. I feel Stormgate’s increasing technical chops, allied to something more ‘fun’ would kick arse
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
well in SC1 it is mostly attack moving with limited spell casters. I don't think adding more spell or abilities is as cool as people think either...
personally I think that sounds like a headache to control. SC2 strikes a good balance and stormgate isnt far off. A move with dark prophecy, or exo lancer with some sentinels to lock down key units etc.
Sc1 half the units have their own micro or control to make them function not like morons. Goon control being an obvious example, vulture micro, muta micro etcetc. Their unit control becomes functional efficiency multipliers which is what makes SC1 not just attack move. A pro will beat my ass with half the number of vultures because mine will never shoot, because I don't know how to control the damn things... compare to sc2 where I've got a fighting chance vs Serral if I've got 20 lings and he's got 10. Its not the spells, its the fact that half the units in the game are dramatically worse if you just a-move. This isn't true of most other RTS, which is why deathball happens.
On July 02 2025 23:38 Fleetfeet wrote: Sc1 half the units have their own micro or control to make them function not like morons. Goon control being an obvious example, vulture micro, muta micro etcetc. Their unit control becomes functional efficiency multipliers which is what makes SC1 not just attack move. A pro will beat my ass with half the number of vultures because mine will never shoot, because I don't know how to control the damn things... compare to sc2 where I've got a fighting chance vs Serral if I've got 20 lings and he's got 10. Its not the spells, its the fact that half the units in the game are dramatically worse if you just a-move. This isn't true of most other RTS, which is why deathball happens.
Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head. To me, this is pretty essential for making an interesting competitive RTS: autopilot technically works but is the bare minimum, while personally piloting a unit truly activates it. And then there is a whole spectrum of how good of a pilot you are. Feels like a no-brainer to me, but the modern studio calculation is that noobs don't want this, or can't handle it. So the game becomes more linear (and objectively worse) and the noobs still don't play! Slide_Whistle.wav
On July 02 2025 23:38 Fleetfeet wrote: Sc1 half the units have their own micro or control to make them function not like morons. Goon control being an obvious example, vulture micro, muta micro etcetc. Their unit control becomes functional efficiency multipliers which is what makes SC1 not just attack move. A pro will beat my ass with half the number of vultures because mine will never shoot, because I don't know how to control the damn things... compare to sc2 where I've got a fighting chance vs Serral if I've got 20 lings and he's got 10. Its not the spells, its the fact that half the units in the game are dramatically worse if you just a-move. This isn't true of most other RTS, which is why deathball happens.
Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head. To me, this is pretty essential for making an interesting competitive RTS: autopilot technically works but is the bare minimum, while personally piloting a unit truly activates it. And then there is a whole spectrum of how good of a pilot you are. Feels like a no-brainer to me, but the modern studio calculation is that noobs don't want this, or can't handle it. So the game becomes more linear (and objectively worse) and the noobs still don't play! Slide_Whistle.wav
I think what the Total Annihilation series of games (latest Beyond All Reason) and AoE2 does is one way to target this. Actual dodging of projectiles, if you A move the opponent likely hits most shots but if you micro you can dodge a large percentage of them.
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
I think it's Stormgates biggest issue atm. Big fights are boring because players are not rewarded for doing noticeable movement-based micro. I think Battle Aces had a similar issue. Big armies walking into each other.
However, I think big army engagements can work but it requires that different type of unit design as to what we have now. The simplest solution is to add more AOE abilities and make their effects significant. In general I believe in as few abilities as possible to keep the game simple but make each ability very powerful.
It needs to be possible to turn a fight around with well-placed abilities or accurate and fast movement-based micro (e.g. dodging enemy abilities). But at the same time the gameplay cannot be too snowbally so making a single split-second error (and thus losing the team-fight) should not lose you the game.
The original concept appeared to be that the game will be more forgiving by reducing damage for both abilities and normal aa relative to Sc2. And while I am kinda fine with the latter, abilities need to be exciting and lethal. And as a consequence battles can be very volatile.
When I read something like this and some other posts it makes me wonder if the hands conjuring it have even tried playing the game seriously.
Most units have an ability or a passive that drastically changes how you can take on fights. The interactions are actually very satisfying.
The bolded part is just so objectively wrong it's painful. Atlas(Sieged), Hexen(Miasma), Animancer(Dark Prophecy) will all absolutely dumpster someone not respecting them.
The game has a plethora of issues, but what you are describing is about the least concerning of them.
I did pop into a Beowulf stream and saw the barnies do a woof-charge and the shooties do a little dash back and I was like WHOAAAA. Jk I closed the stream and bleached my eyes.
But no, if you like SG then please play it. It's fine. When I reinstalled to give it a shot I was reminded that they try to force their bad 'quick macro' on you like Ash shoving the rolled up magazine down Sigourney Weaver's throat in Alien. That's what it felt like, I swear. Couldn't even have 2 command centers on control group 5. I uninstalled just in time for my computer not to turn into a fucking ember. genuflect
I expected and wanted more than what feels like SC2 but with an anti-cheat root kit installed on my PC, like someone's bugeyes up my asshole. Might as well just keep playing the game I was already playing. I have enjoyed this chat about micro though. I feel better when the chat isn't about SG but about RTS in general. When it gets back to SG I feel like putting my face in one of those plug-in countertop grills with the chili-pepper handle.
On July 03 2025 10:08 RogerChillingworth wrote: Couldn't even have 2 command centers on control group 5. I uninstalled just in time for my computer not to turn into a fucking ember. genuflect
.
you must be doing something wrong then, i dont use their quick macro and i put all my command centers on 1 control group, and production on another just fine. gotta change some settings maybe.
On July 03 2025 10:08 RogerChillingworth wrote: Couldn't even have 2 command centers on control group 5. I uninstalled just in time for my computer not to turn into a fucking ember. genuflect
.
you must be doing something wrong then, i dont use their quick macro and i put all my command centers on 1 control group, and production on another just fine. gotta change some settings maybe.
Really? You could be right. I looked around, couldn't change it.
KKKKKKK anyway I'ma fuck off this thread again. Just tryin to make y'all laugh. Too distracting for me tho. gl hf.
On July 03 2025 10:08 RogerChillingworth wrote: Couldn't even have 2 command centers on control group 5. I uninstalled just in time for my computer not to turn into a fucking ember. genuflect
.
you must be doing something wrong then, i dont use their quick macro and i put all my command centers on 1 control group, and production on another just fine. gotta change some settings maybe.
Really? You could be right. I looked around, couldn't change it.
KKKKKKK anyway I'ma fuck off this thread again. Just tryin to make y'all laugh. Too distracting for me tho. gl hf.
if i had to guess you probably had auto hotkeys on so if you tried to set them on the same control group it got overridden. not sure.
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
I think it's Stormgates biggest issue atm. Big fights are boring because players are not rewarded for doing noticeable movement-based micro. I think Battle Aces had a similar issue. Big armies walking into each other.
However, I think big army engagements can work but it requires that different type of unit design as to what we have now. The simplest solution is to add more AOE abilities and make their effects significant. In general I believe in as few abilities as possible to keep the game simple but make each ability very powerful.
It needs to be possible to turn a fight around with well-placed abilities or accurate and fast movement-based micro (e.g. dodging enemy abilities). But at the same time the gameplay cannot be too snowbally so making a single split-second error (and thus losing the team-fight) should not lose you the game.
The original concept appeared to be that the game will be more forgiving by reducing damage for both abilities and normal aa relative to Sc2. And while I am kinda fine with the latter, abilities need to be exciting and lethal. And as a consequence battles can be very volatile.
When I read something like this and some other posts it makes me wonder if the hands conjuring it have even tried playing the game seriously.
Most units have an ability or a passive that drastically changes how you can take on fights. The interactions are actually very satisfying.
The bolded part is just so objectively wrong it's painful. Atlas(Sieged), Hexen(Miasma), Animancer(Dark Prophecy) will all absolutely dumpster someone not respecting them.
The game has a plethora of issues, but what you are describing is about the least concerning of them.
Compared to Psi Storm? Or Reavers in Brood War. (or anything in Brood war really - abilities are incredibly powerful, just difficult to spam).
The point isn't to have more abiliities them selves. The point is to ensure that players are constantly rewarded for moving groups of units around in an engagement all the time during en agement, and if not during one moment of 'lack of micro' the battle could turn around.
Just found a random example. This fight at the Stormgate at 27 mins is boring.
If big engagements were amazing to play and watch with lots of movement-based micro (aside from kiting) and 'swingy movements', the game would have potential and we could look ignore some of its other flaws from now. However, if engagements don' play out well, nothing really matters..
Another quick example from 0.4
Yes Magmadon do reward a bit of movement-based micro, but it's still way too much a-move, ability casting, move forward, move backward. What we need more is splitting of individual of units and abilities being lethal if done well.
You need to think of it this way. If you show these engagements to a player that is part of the target group of the game. Would it excite them and make them want to play the game? If not, the game it's a much more fundamental one than any thing else.
On July 03 2025 10:08 RogerChillingworth wrote: Couldn't even have 2 command centers on control group 5. I uninstalled just in time for my computer not to turn into a fucking ember. genuflect
.
you must be doing something wrong then, i dont use their quick macro and i put all my command centers on 1 control group, and production on another just fine. gotta change some settings maybe.
Really? You could be right. I looked around, couldn't change it.
KKKKKKK anyway I'ma fuck off this thread again. Just tryin to make y'all laugh. Too distracting for me tho. gl hf.
if i had to guess you probably had auto hotkeys on so if you tried to set them on the same control group it got overridden. not sure.
Some of these functions should be turned off as default I think. Pretty much everyone I know and everyone in this thread had to study for hours to understand how this game is controlled... that is not a good basis
On July 01 2025 10:50 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yes that first trailer was lit, but I was on the Stormgate koolaid kart at the time so I kinda dismissed it. Not trying to get on another hype train only to be disappointed but it seems like unencumbered fun. Definitely C&C style but possibly emanating a lil WC2 sizzle dizzle, with an added lil injection of LSD/liquid nitro straight into the nostrils.
But nah, idk. gotta appreciate 2 people making a 2D RTS with some style. My only big criticism, just related to personal taste, is that it's another game that doesn't emphasize micro, or so it seems. Not a single modern RTS seems to be doin that and I think there's just a huge gap for it but oh well.
I dunno why, it’s fun as fuck to micro. It’s a big part of why I’m such a fan of Blizz RTS games
I’ve played so many 7/10 games in the genre at this point that could have been 9s or 10s but the micro was garbage.
Look we’re going off clips, but even from there DORF has silly, enjoyable spectacle. Everything that Stormgate lacks. I imagine 100% DORF doesn’t handle as well as Stormgate.
I remember some record label would commission different artists to just hole up for a week or two and do an EP together, and sometimes it was awful and sometimes great. I feel Stormgate’s increasing technical chops, allied to something more ‘fun’ would kick arse
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
well in SC1 it is mostly attack moving with limited spell casters. I don't think adding more spell or abilities is as cool as people think either...
personally I think that sounds like a headache to control. SC2 strikes a good balance and stormgate isnt far off. A move with dark prophecy, or exo lancer with some sentinels to lock down key units etc.
Sc1 half the units have their own micro or control to make them function not like morons. Goon control being an obvious example, vulture micro, muta micro etcetc. Their unit control becomes functional efficiency multipliers which is what makes SC1 not just attack move. A pro will beat my ass with half the number of vultures because mine will never shoot, because I don't know how to control the damn things... compare to sc2 where I've got a fighting chance vs Serral if I've got 20 lings and he's got 10. Its not the spells, its the fact that half the units in the game are dramatically worse if you just a-move. This isn't true of most other RTS, which is why deathball happens.
Yes and the challenge - for any modern competitive RTS - is figuring out how to replicate some of these parts of BW (or other games) while still having a very clean and responsive engine/pathing.
Micro in both small and larger engagements need to be awesome and a-moving cannot be too efficient. Ideally it's also possible for a smaller army to be cost effective against a larger army (as in bw due to the pathing).
It feels to me that this hasn't even been a focus of Frostgiant (and it definitely wasn't a focus of Battle Aces which was far more egroious when it came to micro).
I think they thought that with a good engine + slower battles that players would have more time to micro - and that would be enough.
In general, this trend of attack-moving large armies into each other is a lot less fun than people think.
I think it's Stormgates biggest issue atm. Big fights are boring because players are not rewarded for doing noticeable movement-based micro. I think Battle Aces had a similar issue. Big armies walking into each other.
However, I think big army engagements can work but it requires that different type of unit design as to what we have now. The simplest solution is to add more AOE abilities and make their effects significant. In general I believe in as few abilities as possible to keep the game simple but make each ability very powerful.
It needs to be possible to turn a fight around with well-placed abilities or accurate and fast movement-based micro (e.g. dodging enemy abilities). But at the same time the gameplay cannot be too snowbally so making a single split-second error (and thus losing the team-fight) should not lose you the game.
The original concept appeared to be that the game will be more forgiving by reducing damage for both abilities and normal aa relative to Sc2. And while I am kinda fine with the latter, abilities need to be exciting and lethal. And as a consequence battles can be very volatile.
When I read something like this and some other posts it makes me wonder if the hands conjuring it have even tried playing the game seriously.
Most units have an ability or a passive that drastically changes how you can take on fights. The interactions are actually very satisfying.
The bolded part is just so objectively wrong it's painful. Atlas(Sieged), Hexen(Miasma), Animancer(Dark Prophecy) will all absolutely dumpster someone not respecting them.
The game has a plethora of issues, but what you are describing is about the least concerning of them.
Compared to Psi Storm? Or Reavers in Brood War. (or anything in Brood war really - abilities are incredibly powerful, just difficult to spam).
The point isn't to have more abiliities them selves. The point is to ensure that players are constantly rewarded for moving groups of units around in an engagement all the time during en agement, and if not during one moment of 'lack of micro' the battle could turn around.
Just found a random example. This fight at the Stormgate at 27 mins is boring.
If big engagements were amazing to play and watch with lots of movement-based micro (aside from kiting) and 'swingy movements', the game would have potential and we could look ignore some of its other flaws from now. However, if engagements don' play out well, nothing really matters..
Yes Magmadon do reward a bit of movement-based micro, but it's still way too much a-move, ability casting, move forward, move backward. What we need more is splitting of individual of units and abilities being lethal if done well.
You need to think of it this way. If you show these engagements to a player that is part of the target group of the game. Would it excite them and make them want to play the game? If not, the game it's a much more fundamental one than any thing else.
(First video... "example") In what world do you think a 50 supply deficit with less tech should be able to compete? Ignoring the 25% supply disadvantage the infernal doesn't even have miasma at 11 minutes.
For the second, other than being on 0.4 (which the game doesn't get there unless the infernal player literally allows it, even then still should be unlosable) that fight looks more than fine. There is plenty going on and also nice things like a shield on the Vulcan absorbing a ton of damage from the Hellbornes. Good pulling back to a building + a tank that is on its way whiling focusing Magmadons and ranging the slow Hellbornes.
I think there is plenty offered to pique interest. Much more going on than banelings roll in banelings roll out.
What we need more is splitting of individual of units and abilities being lethal if done well.
Well I think we can agree to hard disagree. Thinking like this alone is why especially in early starcraft 2 that players (myself included) lost motivation to play. It's absolutely awful design to have a game be able end in an instant. Playing 12 minutes to have something stupid to happen on either side and that all be erased/go next in the span of 5 seconds. (It doesn't feel satisfying to win that way and it's uninstall worthy if you lose) I seriously can't imagine any high level player preferring what you would want.
EPT
