EPTStormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 233
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SoleSteeler
Canada5460 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On June 24 2025 00:52 SoleSteeler wrote: "Comeback mechanics" are more necessary when things like widow mine/baneling drops or oracle harass can wipe out your whole mineral line in seconds. Stormgate is slow enough that it doesn't feel like it needs it. At least nothing artificial. But, it does need units that can be controlled well to turn the tides... I think comeback mechanics are a bandaid fix for games that are too snowbally. E.g. MOBA's are prime example of that. What a modern RTS should strive for is more forgiving gameplay. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have powerful AOE abilities, but rather that the effect of landing a strong POE and killing some units doesn't change win probability from 50 to 95% (generally speaking). | ||
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Yurie
12088 Posts
On June 24 2025 03:18 Hider wrote: I think comeback mechanics are a bandaid fix for games that are too snowbally. E.g. MOBA's are prime example of that. What a modern RTS should strive for is more forgiving gameplay. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have powerful AOE abilities, but rather that the effect of landing a strong POE and killing some units doesn't change win probability from 50 to 95% (generally speaking). Can't you instead go the other way and think as in card games. Where if you hit your combo you have won the game. That is fine since the games are not that long. Though a large part of RTS players want to build bases more than they want to fight. You would lose that entire demographic. | ||
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ETisME
12715 Posts
In some games it's also too hard to close out the game, because of massive defender advantage. How much and how easy these are available is just arbitrary, so It's too game dependant to say X and y shouldn't exist or how it should be | ||
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Agh
United States1045 Posts
https://playstormgate.com/news/stormgate-update-0-5-0 I reserve full doomer until we can test it tomorrow but game is actually looking deader than it already is. Sucks when you want something to succeed. It's like there is a legitimate bad actor trying to sabotage | ||
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ETisME
12715 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
On June 24 2025 09:30 Agh wrote: Patch notes dropped https://playstormgate.com/news/stormgate-update-0-5-0 I reserve full doomer until we can test it tomorrow but game is actually looking deader than it already is. Sucks when you want something to succeed. It's like there is a legitimate bad actor trying to sabotage what are stormgates biggest problems in your opinion? | ||
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Bacillus
Finland2049 Posts
On June 24 2025 11:25 ETisME wrote: they could have tested the creep camp removal with one or two map for the past couple of months. In a way it's really weird to even be able to pivot away from creeps without huge redesign in map pool and mechanics. | ||
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ETisME
12715 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
On June 24 2025 17:04 ETisME wrote: Let's see how many players it bring once the patch lands. I predict it will be fair bit below the last update. I think around the same amount, which is a shame because we were on an upward trend every patch it would be scary to level out. My reason for this is because outside of the stormgates, they didnt really change much. There are a lot of things players are excited about, and have been excited about for months (campaign, co-op, 2v2, 3v3, tier 3 units, faction re-design, map editor. This patch really delivers on none of that and instead implements their own in-house idea.) So really players who took a step back- when they thought about when they would be willing to give SG another try none of those checkboxes got marked off in 0.5. If you arent a 1v1 grinder, its hard to get excited to log back in. | ||
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ETisME
12715 Posts
On June 24 2025 17:25 CicadaSC wrote: I think around the same amount, which is a shame because we were on an upward trend every patch it would be scary to level out. My reason for this is because outside of the stormgates, they didnt really change much. There are a lot of things players are excited about, and have been excited about for months (campaign, co-op, 2v2, 3v3, tier 3 units, faction re-design, map editor. This patch really delivers on none of that and instead implements their own in-house idea.) So really players who took a step back- when they thought about when they would be willing to give SG another try none of those checkboxes got marked off in 0.5. If you arent a 1v1 grinder, its hard to get excited to log back in. no one to blame but themselves. I have mentioned before but they should be testing way more earlier in the cycle. Remember how long they dragged out the dog meta? They don't even have all t3 yet, but treating it like there's a fine tuned meta in the game. The fact that they still got faction rework coming in mid/later this year just before 1.0 releases, says it all. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
On June 25 2025 05:14 Gorsameth wrote: the flip side is that a rank reset means the pro's stomp all the new people coming to check out the patch into quitting. thats a good point. Maybe make it a soft reset then. Sort of like how if you finished last season in masters in sc2 next season you are unranked but start at masters mmr. i dont know, it is just offputting to me seeing someone be 98-5 and knowing none of that is this version of the game. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
On June 24 2025 17:04 ETisME wrote: Let's see how many players it bring once the patch lands. I predict it will be fair bit below the last update. looks like you were right, and numbers seem to have already peaked at ~200. I think frost giant has to ask themself what went wrong and why this patch didnt deliver the same way 0.4 did. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On June 25 2025 05:37 CicadaSC wrote: Because you only get so many second chances before players just don't bother showing up to see if this time you got it rightlooks like you were right, and numbers seem to have already peaked at ~200. I think frost giant has to ask themself what went wrong and why this patch didnt deliver the same way 0.4 did. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On June 24 2025 04:44 Yurie wrote: Can't you instead go the other way and think as in card games. Where if you hit your combo you have won the game. That is fine since the games are not that long. Though a large part of RTS players want to build bases more than they want to fight. You would lose that entire demographic. I think that was kinda the way Battle Aces tried to go. Personally I prefer longer back-and-forth gameplay. And if the gameplay is indeed snowbally its better to have comeback-mechanics than not have them. However, ideally the gameplay doesn't snowball as hard. In some games it's also too hard to close out the game, because of massive defender advantage. Closing out indicates a player has like a 95%+ win-probability but that the game drags out for a long time after. That is not good game-design. Rather, I prefer longer periods of time where the win-probs are relatively close - even when a lot of trading occurs. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On June 24 2025 17:25 CicadaSC wrote: I think around the same amount, which is a shame because we were on an upward trend every patch it would be scary to level out. My reason for this is because outside of the stormgates, they didnt really change much. There are a lot of things players are excited about, and have been excited about for months (campaign, co-op, 2v2, 3v3, tier 3 units, faction re-design, map editor. This patch really delivers on none of that and instead implements their own in-house idea.) So really players who took a step back- when they thought about when they would be willing to give SG another try none of those checkboxes got marked off in 0.5. If you arent a 1v1 grinder, its hard to get excited to log back in. If I had to guess those changes would probably take longer to implement. Conceptually speaking they could justify the change with Stormgates being an exciting idea that could bring in new players. In reality I don't think it matters. Stormgate is still not an exciting game. Looking at unit battles - they are still boring. And as long as you can't make battes and micro cool - nothing else you do matter. The way I think about is you should be able to show a 1-2 minute highlight video to new players and immediately get them excited. If you cannot - the game is DOA. Nothing else matters. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6968 Posts
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