Age of Empires IV - Page 13

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Jealous

10314 Posts

November 19 2021 19:34 GMT

#241

On November 20 2021 03:21 Sbrubbles wrote:

Show nested quote +

That is so silly. They need to add some crazy visual effects or reduce that range drastically

Shrapnel is more dangerous than the actual blast, so I think it's a fair visualization?

Qwyn

United States2779 Posts

November 19 2021 22:18 GMT

#242

Having played a good hundred games or so now I've gotta say as far as balance goes:

- Not a fan of siege, please make different categories of units have different "anti-siege attacks". I.E., if my knights or m@a reach your siege, you should lose it, not be able to walk it away casually lol. Also a lot of games seem to devolve into who can get springalds first which is so boring ;_;
- This is siege again, but castles feel so useless due to things like bombards. They definitely do not feel at all like they have the presence of AOE2 castles...
- Also siege, but on another track, anyone else think trebs are useless? I play exclusively English but I was sad to see even Warwulf (or whatever they call it now) is crappy now. I see no point in making them. If u wanna do a timing push just make rams, cost no gold and do just as much damage
- The maps outside of 1v1 are WAY TOO BIG, seriously there's 2 size categories of 2v2 map and they chose the larger one. I mean the same goes for closed maps in AOE2 as well but please just take everything besides Arabia/Mongolia out of the pool and go from there...or give us like 4 downvotes so I can mark down all the BF clones. And shrink the map size by at least 20%

Fast 2TC builds are probably the future, fastest I've seen is 5:00 but maybe someone will get even faster, idk though might be the ceiling. English fast 2TC into LB/spear (potential ram push) feels very consistent, can do a 3TC castle knight push follow-up that usually wins most games. If not you've usually lost unless you can transition into springald spam behind and then things get stupid ;_;

Pocket water builds are a lot of fun and can get you a ridiculous castle age timing, unfortunately that just means mass springald for now...I do a lot of xbow/archer/springald/spear and it's a super lean & mean comp that while not as flashy as knights does get the job done.

Outside of siege being waaaaaay too OP all my complaints are just to do with UI. There's a lot of hotkeys that are missing from SC2 that the game desperately needs.

The most important, critical, day one, ASAP, very next patch change is to add wireframe cloning. I cannot function without it! You use it for so many things. Scouting/deselect 1, farm splitting (not as important now), managing eco...

Latham

9576 Posts

November 20 2021 00:56 GMT

#243

Not a fan of siege, please make different categories of units have different "anti-siege attacks". I.E., if my knights or m@a reach your siege, you should lose it, not be able to walk it away casually lol. Also a lot of games seem to devolve into who can get springalds first which is so boring ;_;

Agreed, siege is a bit too quick now, and maybe a bit too potent as well, especially springalds. It is hard to believe that workers are just as effective against it as M@A and Knights. Would like to see it toned down as well.

- This is siege again, but castles feel so useless due to things like bombards. They definitely do not feel at all like they have the presence of AOE2 castles...
- Also siege, but on another track, anyone else think trebs are useless? I play exclusively English but I was sad to see even Warwulf (or whatever they call it now) is crappy now. I see no point in making them. If u wanna do a timing push just make rams, cost no gold and do just as much damage

That's because bombards are just absurd against buildings. And bombards are Age IV units which a lot of games should already be decided by that time, I feel.
Coincidentally that's why trebs feel bad. Bombards power crept them way too hard. If you'd be sieging castles with just 2-3 trebs and bombards wouldn't exist (like Age III) castles feel much more imposing.
Warwulf has been replaced by "Shattering Projectiles" that indeed is completely useless. It's supposed to help trebs kill units and clumps of units but with treb's piss-poor accuracy and reload times just about the only thing they can hit is a castle or a wall.

I feel like Imperial Age (Age IV) kinda throws away any semblance of balance and game flow this game had prior to it. Bombards, culverins, organ guns, hand cannoneers, capital ships on water etc.

AoE2 does it better in that regard.

Amphok

4 Posts

November 20 2021 10:52 GMT

#244

i don't fully agree, siege should not be a support units only like in the previous aoe, i like siege to be good alone like in BW, i like this approach, in BW you can go full mech, which is kinda full siege here, i don't want to be forced to build always infantry to win, both strategy should be viable

Jealous

10314 Posts

November 20 2021 17:30 GMT

#245

On November 20 2021 19:52 Amphok wrote:
i don't fully agree, siege should not be a support units only like in the previous aoe, i like siege to be good alone like in BW, i like this approach, in BW you can go full mech, which is kinda full siege here, i don't want to be forced to build always infantry to win, both strategy should be viable

Going full siege just doesn't make sense in a historical context whatsoever, it should not be an option in an AoE game. Full siege should rightfully be rolled by full Knight. In AoE2 it is possible to go proxy Siege/Monk all-in but even then you usually have a few support units if the all-in doesn't win outright. Siege is dangerous and important enough already that it needs exploitable weaknesses, like any unit in any RTS.

Amphok

4 Posts

November 21 2021 12:22 GMT

#246

no game need to fully be like it is in real like, it's just a game everything that remind me of BW is a good thing anyway

nojok

France15846 Posts

November 21 2021 13:26 GMT

#247

Mech is not like siege only at all, only the siege tank is a siege unit, the rest of the kit surrounding the tank is normal units. Siege units are reavers, lurkers, guardians and siege tanks and they require support and more micro than the regular fighting units, if anything it's a good exemple of how siege units should work, ie not on their own. On top of that BW has stuff like dark swarm, stasis, air units and drops to keep siege units in check.

But tbf, in aoe4 the most skilled players trade blow for blow, whereas at my elo we suck and eventually stockpile ressources which lead to age 4 and mass artillery, pros don't go age 4 that often or won't be able to support the switch to full artillery when they do. On the other hand the springald reigns supreme at their level.

Yurie

12083 Posts

November 21 2021 22:03 GMT

#248

I agree with the suggestion of letting a few units be anti siege. Triple the current damage on lancers/knights or man at arms would put it roughly where it should be.

Laurens

Belgium4557 Posts

November 22 2021 10:43 GMT

#249

The Chinese have this with Fire Lancers. Maybe the counter to mass Springald games is playing Chinese? XD
Haven't been able to try this out yet so idk how effective they actually are.

MockHamill

Sweden1798 Posts

November 22 2021 20:42 GMT

#250

The pylon show has a really good episode on AOE4:
Lowko, ViBE, Beastyqt and UpATreeZelda join Artosis to chat about AoE4 on Ep.144 of ThePylonShow

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

November 24 2021 04:50 GMT

#251

Winter patch coming out next week! https://www.ageofempires.com/news/age-of-empires-iv-update-next-week

GTR

51586 Posts

November 24 2021 08:28 GMT

#252

no word on tuning down the springald which i think is the main issue not mentioned in the post that's plaguing the game

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

November 24 2021 08:32 GMT

#253

In the developer interview, they talked about how they dont' like how the springald is being used, but are going to look into it in the future. I think this patch was pretty much completed before the springald's started being so dominant. Hopefully we get it before Spring though...

Laurens

Belgium4557 Posts

November 24 2021 18:51 GMT

#254

After farming all the achievements I can reasonably get on my own I've started dabbling in 1v1 multiplayer.
I picked up a Knights + Springalds castle age push build and it's just filthy.
People make spearman in response but they can't do shit vs my Springalds. A mongol did a great job at holding off Knight damage with his Mangudai but again it was all over as soon as the Springalds came out.
Is there actually a counter to Springald that isn't your own Springald?

HolydaKing

21254 Posts

November 24 2021 19:31 GMT

#255

Cannons seem to own them from what I've seen on BeastyQTs stream, but then again he's using China, which are the best late game. And to be fair he usually has some Springalds too. ^^

Blitzkrieg0

United States13132 Posts

November 24 2021 19:46 GMT

#256

On November 25 2021 04:31 HolydaKing wrote:
Cannons seem to own them from what I've seen on BeastyQTs stream, but then again he's using China, which are the best late game. And to be fair he usually has some Springalds too. ^^

But cannons are imperial units. You need something castle because you won't survive to imperial age typically from that push.

Latham

9576 Posts

November 24 2021 19:55 GMT

#257

On November 25 2021 04:46 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:

Show nested quote +

But cannons are imperial units. You need something castle because you won't survive to imperial age typically from that push.

exactly. Sadly right now the counter to springalds is your own springalds. They were advertised as anti-siege units, probably meant to counter mangonels and rams somehow? Maybe even trebs, but they're anti-everything.

I'd be tempted to say just make more trash units like horsemen or pikes and swarm the enemy like with zerglings, but with good positioning, springalds are nigh untouchable with melee. You'll lose too much approaching them and every enemy unit will get free hits on your units when you're trying to run past to reach the springalds.

edit: BTW does anyone else think horsemen need 1 base piercing armor? In very low numbers they counter archers, but already in moderate numbers, archers, let alone longbowmen, absolutely decimate horsemen before they can get on top of em with micro.