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On November 30 2021 23:34 HolydaKing wrote:
I'm not playing the game but watching players like BeastyQT and Leenock made me feel Chinese were the strongest faction before the patch, especially non water maps. I'm not sure they needed buffs.
Delhi didn't need nerfs for sure either. Otherwise, I'm in line with most people thinking that the Springalds are too good and shouldn't get massed as much as they currently are, but I'm also thinking Bombards are too dominant in Age IV even if the opponent doesn't use Springalds they're still too good imo.
The consensus overall was that Chinese were bottom tier, but again, the game is new and things are being still figured out. I don't have strong opinions on the issue, but on the few pre-patch tournaments China was almost never picked, less even than HRE and Abbasid.
I agree that Delhi nerfs weren't necessary, but I've been playing mostly Delhi and been having a grand time, so I'm suspect in that reguard. I do think it's universally agreed upon that they're more boring to play without the tension of dark age sacred sites.
At least it's a good impetus to play other factions. I feel like learning English now, or maybe Abbasid.
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Good news, patch coming next week.
- Abbassids bug techs fix
- Resources building exploit fix
- Springald nerf
I can't wait for the Springald nerf, my god am I excited. I will be so happy not being forced into that unit.
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Yes springald is one of the few things I do not like about the game. Which I why I tend to kill my opponents in feudal. No castle age, no springald.
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On December 01 2021 00:11 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2021 23:34 HolydaKing wrote:
I'm not playing the game but watching players like BeastyQT and Leenock made me feel Chinese were the strongest faction before the patch, especially non water maps. I'm not sure they needed buffs.
Delhi didn't need nerfs for sure either. Otherwise, I'm in line with most people thinking that the Springalds are too good and shouldn't get massed as much as they currently are, but I'm also thinking Bombards are too dominant in Age IV even if the opponent doesn't use Springalds they're still too good imo. The consensus overall was that Chinese were bottom tier, but again, the game is new and things are being still figured out. I don't have strong opinions on the issue, but on the few pre-patch tournaments China was almost never picked, less even than HRE and Abbasid. I agree that Delhi nerfs weren't necessary, but I've been playing mostly Delhi and been having a grand time, so I'm suspect in that reguard. I do think it's universally agreed upon that they're more boring to play without the tension of dark age sacred sites. At least it's a good impetus to play other factions. I feel like learning English now, or maybe Abbasid.
Chinese was considered one of the top civs, if not the top, on choke maps like Black Forest and Mountain Pass due to their ability to get up walls quick and mass siege with high HP. Outside of map specific, I'd agree with your statements.
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The Springald nerfs for those interested:
Springald cost increased from 200 Gold/200 Wood to 250 Gold/250 Wood
Springald bonus damage vs. Siege engines increased from 20 to 90
Springald base damage reduced from 60 to 30
Springald move speed decreased from 4 to 3.75
Personally I thought the biggest problem with springalds was their attack range, taking shots at your army from super far forces you to choose between unfavourable engagements or backing off and losing buildings.
Looks like they chose to keep the attack range and nerf everything else, hopefully it's enough 
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On December 06 2021 18:18 Laurens wrote:The Springald nerfs for those interested: Show nested quote +Springald cost increased from 200 Gold/200 Wood to 250 Gold/250 Wood
Springald bonus damage vs. Siege engines increased from 20 to 90
Springald base damage reduced from 60 to 30
Springald move speed decreased from 4 to 3.75 Personally I thought the biggest problem with springalds was their attack range, taking shots at your army from super far forces you to choose between unfavourable engagements or backing off and losing buildings. Looks like they chose to keep the attack range and nerf everything else, hopefully it's enough
60 to 30 is pretty big, though maybe not as big as it might appear since at high enough numbers overkilling is a thing.
Maybe it's enough of a nerf that you can now get just enough springs to suicide them to kill the enemy mangos and win the battle on the back of the rest of your army. The spring player will still kite, but maybe it won't be as painful
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On December 06 2021 18:18 Laurens wrote:The Springald nerfs for those interested: Show nested quote +Springald cost increased from 200 Gold/200 Wood to 250 Gold/250 Wood
Springald bonus damage vs. Siege engines increased from 20 to 90
Springald base damage reduced from 60 to 30
Springald move speed decreased from 4 to 3.75 Personally I thought the biggest problem with springalds was their attack range, taking shots at your army from super far forces you to choose between unfavourable engagements or backing off and losing buildings. Looks like they chose to keep the attack range and nerf everything else, hopefully it's enough
They need their range or they won't do what they were intended for (countering siege). I do think the attack nerf will be enough and the cost increase will also help. I don't think we'll be seeing the patch today. Hoping for tomorrow!
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I'm a new aoe4 player with a SC/sc2 background .
Right now even tho I'm looking at streams and stuff I don't grasp what I am aiming for in my games .
There is obv a lot of talk a out the springald but I don't face this in my games yet .
I just started playing French and I usually just get 1-2 royal knight in the early game to scout harass and then I get lost . Il keep producing villager and go to late game but my army comp is like all over the place. If I see walls and defensive position I'll try to add some siege but that it . Is there anything I should try to get ? What is a good general comp ?
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It's not easy to answer that question. Depends on the civ you play, the civ your opponent is playing, and sometimes even the map you're on.
As French I had great success with a Knights + Springald comp but Springalds are getting a nerf soon.
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In AoE 2 you should make your strongest unit (French - Knights) and a counter to the unit that counters your strongest unit, so in this case, archers that deal extremely well with spearmen, if that makes any sense.
AoE4 is really similar to AoE2 in that aspect. Play to your strengths as a civilization, and try to cover your weaknesses and/or think 1 step ahead of your opponent.
After hitting Age III (Castle Age) start adding siege, mangonels (2-3) and then springalds to counter the enemy springalds that will try to snipe your mangonels. In Age 4 you have access to the royal artillery academy or whatever its called, and then just pump 2-3 cannons and culverins (both extremely expensive). Maybe leave out the organ guns, not sure how legitimate they are right now.
Just keep upgrading your units lines (Knights, archers, arbelests) to veteran and elite as you age up and don't forget blacksmith upgrades that are vital and important.
If you don't know how to play aggressively and push your advantages you could always go for the control play and starve the opponent out. The games will be long and you'll feel like a boa constrictor but it's quite effective. Don't go for game-winning plays, instead make your opponent make mistakes and quit the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yea there is no answer to "what comp should I make" and having a random mix of units is considered a "noob comp" in AoE and in RTS in general to some extent. The reasoning is that if you are producing a mix of units there is no way that you have the opportunity to upgrade all of them without wasting a lot of resources and delaying your age up, and while nothing may directly counter your entire army, a person who specializes in a few key units will almost always outperform you because they will have better upgrades and numbers due to streamlining and only a small fraction of your mixed army will counter that unit.
The right answer is that it depends; in general, you should either be making a unit that takes the initiative and forces them to counter you and then you counter that, or you make that which counters your opponent's expected comp. The way you can see what comp they are making is by scouting what production facilities they invested in, what initial units you see being made, and of course considering their civ into the equation will help point you in a direction.
An AoE2 example is that you open Scouts, which are fast harassing units so this puts the enemy on the defensive (usually) and that means that they will often go for Spearmen. While they are making Spearmen, you transition into Archers. So, once they finally have a number of Spearmen that can stop you from harassing with your Scouts, you already have the counter to their Spearmen and can do even more damage. Now they are forced to make Skirmishers to counter your Archers, but by then you are already ahead and should be going up to the next age which allows you to make Knights. There are many different variations on what could happen of course.
Going straight for your civ's boosted unit is very predictable and an easy way to get countered. That's why controlling the flow of the game and forcing your opponent into what turns out to be a bad decision in the end is the goal. Sometimes you will get away with this and sometimes you will not. But, in general and as always, I feel like focusing on your fundamentals like not getting housed, not floating too many resources unless you're saving for post-age-up upgrades, keeping TC idle time low, etc. is the surest course to improvement and victory. As you win games and get better, you will encounter stronger players that will do novel things against you and then you can learn from what they do.
Or, maybe even better yet, you can just watch pro games and actually analyze what they do and why. Instead of watching purely for entertainment, ask yourself "why did X pro do Y at this moment" and use that logic in your own play, much like any other RTS IMO.
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Patch is out. All hail the Springald nerf!
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having a BLAST playing aoe4, haven't had this fun since i discovered bw in 2000.
If someone wanna play , hit me up (same id on steam as here)
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On December 09 2021 23:57 Jealous wrote:
Going straight for your civ's boosted unit is very predictable and an easy way to get countered.
Horse archers disagree!
I'm struggling the most against Rus and Mongols atm, this stupid horse archer rush and being overwhelmed by mongols' free units. Happily I'm low enough MMR that people play about everything, the community is not very tryhard.
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beastycuty did a youtube vid on aoe4 intro for sc folks, might help some.
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Anyone watched some of that steel series? Leenock vs TheViper game 3 was great.
Overall, once you remove Rus, Mongol, water maps and the fact that players don't pick turtly maps too often, the game really shines, which is the feeling I get from my own games as well. I would love being able to ban half of the maps.
It really feels like the game is close to greatness, it only really needs an UI rework, some better maps, nerf siege and some more minor balance tweaks. It looks like a lot but some games happen to not be impacted by all those issues, no broken civs, open land map, not reaching siege war, and those games are epic.
On December 16 2021 23:42 FluffyMaguro wrote:Hi, I created this overlay for displaying information about your allies and opponents. + Show Spoiler +It does support both 1v1 and team games, streaming overlay, civ/map randomizer, and provides some stats. API calls are done through https://aoeiv.net/ right now.
Come on, triple Chinese in team game? Respect your opponents.
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Still loving to follow AoE IV competetive scene!
https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Winter_Series/1
The tourrnament above completed just now. + Show Spoiler +Congrats to Marinelord to his first AoE IV win. Looks to me he quit SC2 considering he dropped out of Dreamhack. Not a bad choice considering how good he is in AoE IV and it might have a brighter future tbh... I have like zero faith in Blizzard anymore and they kind of dropped SC2 esports and balancing from what I remember.
I personally think the most blatant imbalance currently is Rus Horse Archers...
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Yeah it was great, the players delivered.
Not a big fan of casters though, I rate the French one a bit above the English ones, but not by much and mostly because he's speaking French.
+ Show Spoiler +Mlord was commentating his games before his internet dropped, it's a great viewer experience
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/pthWYr8.jpg)
