EPTIs that still a thing or has it been streamlined? Or indeed was my perception wrong to begin with?
Age of Empires IV - Page 11
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24260 Posts
Is that still a thing or has it been streamlined? Or indeed was my perception wrong to begin with? | ||
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Kasto
473 Posts
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Jealous
10105 Posts
On November 15 2021 10:38 WombaT wrote: Another thing as an AoE noob, there seems to be, least in AoE2 a lot more damage/armour modifiers across types of specific units than in SC with its damage types like light/armoured etc Is that still a thing or has it been streamlined? Or indeed was my perception wrong to begin with? There are only two armor types, melee and piercing. However, certain units get bonus damage in certain interactions, which is what leads to counters. I don't remember the exact numbers but just for argument's sake let's say a Knight has 1 melee armor and a Swordsman does 5 melee damage; the Swordsman will do 4 damage to the knight. The Halberdier does 4 melee damage, so you would think that he would do 3 melee damage to the knight, but because he has +48 bonus damage against cavalry, he will actually do 51 melee damage to the knight. There are a ton of interactions with bonus damage of that nature, and it's sort of hard to put it all in one recognizable chart, not to mention the fact that some units counter other units without actually having bonus damage but simply due to their nature (mobility, range, high pierce armor, etc.) or only in certain scenarios (Bombard Cannons pretty much one shot nearly everything but if you run up close to it then it dies, plus you can dodge the cannonball). Here's a chart I found online: ![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/srcimqiw7m4z.jpg) AoE4 operates in a similar way AFAIK. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6793 Posts
On November 15 2021 03:57 MockHamill wrote: That is more or less what would happen in real life. Arrows do nothing against Rams. It is like 100 guys with knifes trying to take down a tank. Does not work. On November 15 2021 04:04 blade55555 wrote: That's how it should be, otherwise rams would suck. It's also realistic to real life as another poster mentioned. Comparing it to "real life" is really bad since in real life you actually need a lot of people to move it. And those can be dealt with as well | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4100 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
On November 15 2021 18:36 M2 wrote: Not knowing anything about the game except how good French are. I watched several games from the genesis tournament and never caught one where France won, so I checked the results and French were 3/9 in non mirrors xD It is true that the overall OP-ness of the French was overblown before this tournament, however, I do still think their Hulks (springald ships in age II) and The Guild (age III landmark) both need to be nerfed. Hulks just dominate and crush any opposition on water and The Guild magically produces a resource of your choosing out of thin air without any cap. In one game TheViper got 3500 gold out of it in a single click. That's almost as much as a small gold deposit on the map (4000), and he didn't actually have to mine it or dedicate workers to it. Just free. Aside from that Mongols obviously were the dominating force during this tournament. Nerfing them is a lot harder, because they looked overall strong across the board. Maybe a springald nerf globally would indirectly nerf mongols? Add a cooldown to springald production in the field? IDK Chinese and HRE were being avoided like the plague. One problem is probably both Prelates and Tax Collectors costing a lot at the start amongst other things... both factions need some buffs. Delhi / Rus / Abbasid were pretty OK, surprisingly. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On November 15 2021 18:42 Latham wrote: It is true that the overall OP-ness of the French was overblown before this tournament, however, I do still think their Hulks (springald ships in age II) and The Guild (age III landmark) both need to be nerfed. Hulks just dominate and crush any opposition on water and The Guild magically produces a resource of your choosing out of thin air without any cap. In one game TheViper got 3500 gold out of it in a single click. That's almost as much as a small gold deposit on the map (4000), and he didn't actually have to mine it or dedicate workers to it. Just free. Aside from that Mongols obviously were the dominating force during this tournament. Nerfing them is a lot harder, because they looked overall strong across the board. Maybe a springald nerf globally would indirectly nerf mongols? Add a cooldown to springald production in the field? IDK Chinese and HRE were being avoided like the plague. One problem is probably both Prelates and Tax Collectors costing a lot at the start amongst other things... both factions need some buffs. Delhi / Rus / Abbasid were pretty OK, surprisingly. The guild's hall tick caps at 200 every 20 seconds and it takes a long time to reach that cap, it's in line with other stuff, like 3 relic in HRE's cathedral is the same gain as a maxed out French guild's hall which takes like 20 minutes. It's a boring landmark though. The hulk is an abomination which should have never made it to release day. All the good French maps were removed by the organisers btw, so they appeared weaker than are. Now to speak about truely broken age 3 landmark, look at the Mongol's one, +50% gold income right when it's up. Then for nerf, you could repay for the Khan, don't apply the bonus speed from their T2 landmark to artillery and nerf springals. Even if not built on the field, springalds are just too good at dealing with basicly everything and they're so fast. It's the unit I hate the most atm. Players and organisers are discussing the possibility to only be able to pick each civ once during a boX, that would be better and bring some more diversity. I believe today's patch should fix some issues with prelates and officers who are idling way too much, maybe it's other bugs though, devs did not explicitly tell us, that would be a direct buff to Chinese and HRE. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Some performance fix, Mongol TC drop fix and that's pretty much the important parts. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24260 Posts
On November 15 2021 14:28 Jealous wrote: There are only two armor types, melee and piercing. However, certain units get bonus damage in certain interactions, which is what leads to counters. I don't remember the exact numbers but just for argument's sake let's say a Knight has 1 melee armor and a Swordsman does 5 melee damage; the Swordsman will do 4 damage to the knight. The Halberdier does 4 melee damage, so you would think that he would do 3 melee damage to the knight, but because he has +48 bonus damage against cavalry, he will actually do 51 melee damage to the knight. There are a ton of interactions with bonus damage of that nature, and it's sort of hard to put it all in one recognizable chart, not to mention the fact that some units counter other units without actually having bonus damage but simply due to their nature (mobility, range, high pierce armor, etc.) or only in certain scenarios (Bombard Cannons pretty much one shot nearly everything but if you run up close to it then it dies, plus you can dodge the cannonball). Here's a chart I found online: AoE4 operates in a similar way AFAIK. I’m assuming with exposure that all becomes second nature, it seems a little unwieldy to the layman, but yeah I imagine with exposure it’s not super complicated Cheers for the rather comprehensive reply | ||
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Jealous
10105 Posts
On November 16 2021 04:46 WombaT wrote: I’m assuming with exposure that all becomes second nature, it seems a little unwieldy to the layman, but yeah I imagine with exposure it’s not super complicated Cheers for the rather comprehensive reply It's definitely something that you start realizing with more time spent watching/playing, even if no one tells you. When I first started playing AoE as a kid, I thought that I could just make Spearmen and skirmishers because why spend gold if you don't have to? I made Eagle Warriors thinking they would be like super-Spearmen because they carried spears, lmao. But over time you definitely get the hang of the unit interactions and it starts to feel intuitive rather than arbitrary. Instead of trying to take in that whole chart, you can think of simple triangles such as Archers beat Spearmen, Spearmen beat Knights, Knights beat Archers, for example. Or, Skirmishers beat Archers, Archers beat Swordsmen, Swordsmen beat Skirmishers. So on and so forth. EDIT: It also helps that there is some real life logic to it, as opposed to Sci Fi units like in StarCraft. It makes sense that an Archer can kill a Spearman from a distance, and that Spearmen are good against Knights because, well, that's what was used against mounted units in antiquity and beyond lol. If you can grasp StarCraft interactions, AoE ones should be just as easy if not easier to get a grasp of, is what I'm trying to say I guess. | ||
GTR
51392 Posts
for reference, sc2 had its first balance patch after retail release after 2 months.  Patch 1.1.0and yes while there was beta testing and the like, it wasn't as extensive as sc2 and was very limited in terms of competitive multiplayer | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
Same with resources getting randomly deleted when you put down buildings. AFAIK all of these were communicated to them from closed beta & the public stress test. The balances changes can wait, I agree, but bug fixes should be a priority. | ||
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DreamOen
Spain1400 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6793 Posts
On November 16 2021 18:32 DreamOen wrote: I fear that the numbers of AOEIV in terms of online players based on steamapps, arent that big to sustain a healthy community it peaks on 40k~~ players online. SC2 numbers are hidden nowadays, but that number we still can probably hit. Don't forget that you can get AoE 4 in Game Pass for 1$. I imagine quite a lot of people are playing over Microsoft store/ Game pass. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On November 16 2021 19:59 Harris1st wrote: Don't forget that you can get AoE 4 in Game Pass for 1$. I imagine quite a lot of people are playing over Microsoft store/ Game pass. Yup. It's my case at least. | ||
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gTank
Austria2550 Posts
On November 16 2021 19:59 Harris1st wrote: Don't forget that you can get AoE 4 in Game Pass for 1$. I imagine quite a lot of people are playing over Microsoft store/ Game pass. This, have friends I regularly play and all 8 of us have it on game pass. IMO the steam numbers are lower than the game pass numbers. | ||
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cha0
Canada504 Posts
On November 16 2021 07:23 GTR wrote: its crazy how people are expecting dramatic balance changes only 3 weeks into the games retail lifespan. for reference, sc2 had its first balance patch after retail release after 2 months. Patch 1.1.0and yes while there was beta testing and the like, it wasn't as extensive as sc2 and was very limited in terms of competitive multiplayer I think you are nailing the issue in your own comment though. SC2 had very extensive beta testing with patches at least once a week, while AoE IV had a short beta, but then as well didn't fix a lot of the bugs/balance issues that were brought up. They could have had a longer beta if they wanted, or they could be more aggressive with patching with the retail launch, but they are not doing either. I myself don't really mind the balances issues too much, I think it's good to let the playerbase have time to figure things out but there are some bugs that have been around beta that really should have been fixed. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6793 Posts
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