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On November 14 2021 00:26 Laurens wrote:
Gotta love it.
After the open qualifier of Genesis: "French are OP" - "Delhi was picked 0 times" - "Balance is shit".
Game 1 of RO8: Lucifron trashes Kasva with Delhi vs French :D
Don't mistake the two spainiards. It's Vortix trashing Kasva. And I'm wondering whether that's a seriously strong build or just strong because of the surprise effect.
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Ooof my bad, mixed up the brothers haha.
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That was actually a sick build! He used every strength of Delhi very well. Still feel like Kasva should have switched to a second TC.
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It looked good, very smart play to take to the map and wrestle map control from the French and secure 2/3 sacred sites. Then pump M@A that trade OK vs Royal Knights (without cycle charging) and crush archers.
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Quality of games is a bit disappointing if you're used to watching SC2, early days I guess.
I don't particularly like these two casters either 
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Vortix with the lobby practice against his brother and sick strats, Kasva, hammering the ladder, ready for the French mirror.
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Looking at this tournament, the French don't seem OP at all lol. Just a lot of shitters on ladder that can't exploit their disadvantages (including me)
in reality they probably need to be toned down a little on the Eco side like vil production and maybe water.
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This Abbasid Mirror between Hera and Recon is the best game of the tournament so far
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On November 14 2021 06:26 Latham wrote:
This Abbasid Mirror between Hera and Recon is the best game of the tournament so far
I want a wolf kill count from this game so bad.
+ Show Spoiler [result] +Makes no sense how he won this game with the wolf destroying his berries, later tech, still wins
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+ Show Spoiler +Hera didn't push his advantage when he had imperial and upgrades. He made only one bombard at first and didn't make anymore for quite a while. I am betting Hera doesn't have a lot of experience in long games like that, which was unfortunate as I was hoping for a game 5.
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Not the Lucifron I remember from SC2, still a bit new to the game I guess
Lots of mistakes in that French mirror. Constantly losing both ships and knights whilst gaining nothing.
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still having a hard time finding build orders for this game. Every game I watch people are playing differently except maybe french
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On November 14 2021 09:03 CicadaSC wrote:
still having a hard time finding build orders for this game. Every game I watch people are playing differently except maybe french
that's a good sign imo, means game has higher strategic potential, no clear always-working/always-optimal recipes. I'd even say that's kind of #1 quality for a RTS now.
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On November 14 2021 10:08 ProMeTheus112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2021 09:03 CicadaSC wrote:
still having a hard time finding build orders for this game. Every game I watch people are playing differently except maybe french that's a good sign imo, means game has higher strategic potential, no clear always-working/always-optimal recipes. I'd even say that's kind of #1 quality for a RTS now.
That's how every good RTS starts, at least; StarCraft was the same way  Eventually a clearer meta was distilled and then that meta evolved. THAT is the best possible quality of an RTS IMO.
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On November 14 2021 11:27 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2021 10:08 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On November 14 2021 09:03 CicadaSC wrote:
still having a hard time finding build orders for this game. Every game I watch people are playing differently except maybe french that's a good sign imo, means game has higher strategic potential, no clear always-working/always-optimal recipes. I'd even say that's kind of #1 quality for a RTS now. That's how every good RTS starts, at least; StarCraft was the same way Eventually a clearer meta was distilled and then that meta evolved. THAT is the best possible quality of an RTS IMO.
Yeah but AO4 macro is deeper than SC2. You have to adapt your build not only to your opponent but to the map itself. The random map generator means that you need to adapt on the fly to various map conditions, so a player that just blindly follows a build order will be behind.
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On November 10 2021 21:41 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2021 20:11 Laurens wrote:On November 08 2021 09:43 Latham wrote:![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IO4TAzx.jpg) I think I like this game  Still can't be sure though, need another 500 hours to investigate further. Any tips on how you achieved this without wasting too much time facing the AI? xD Just made a start on English mastery and the first 3 quests are 1) kill a scout in dark age 2) produce 30 longbowmen from council hall in feudal age 3) win a game vs Easy AI So naturally I load up a game vs Easy AI and completed all 3 objectives but only the first 1 got ticked off I'm guessing the best way to go about this is to do one of your current mastery tasks in a multiplayer game and only face the AI when you're explicitly told to? Otherwise it's quite the grind... You can only do 1 challenge at a time, unfortunately. However, you can set the AI to Easy and resources to High and even starting age to whatever you like it to, to not waste time. If it tells you to make King's Palace landmark (economic, age III landmark) and produce 10 workers from it, play vs easy AI, set resources to High (10K of each resource), set age to Age II and map to revealed. With 5 of your starting workers make that landmark, with 6th start building 10 barracks. Queue up like 3-4 more vils in your TC, 1st one makes houses all the others go help make barracks. Once King's Palace is built, queue up 10 workers in it and focus on making men-at-arms or spearmen. Once you have a nice blob (30-40) rush the AI and keep rallying more into his base. Burn everything down except his landmarks. Once you make sure you built 10 or 11 vills from King's Palace landmark, just burn down his TC and/or whatever he built to advance to Castle Age. Btw rushing the AI from 10 rax works on all AI difficulties. From easy to hardest. There are some weird challenges like "kill 20 enemy units with Trebs that have researched Scatter Shot technology" ... because Trebs are fucking terrible at killing units. I shit you not, I had 30 trebs and 50 pikes in front and was trying to kill 20 units for over 40 minutes. Out of 30 shots maybe 1-2 hit every time. Other hard challenges are the ones that require you to heal units. There is no friendly fire in this game so you cant mangonel your own units to half HP and then heal them. In best case, the enemy will be building mangos and you can bait them into shooting your units and retreating to heal them. In wost case, you gotta burn the AI down to the TC and move 1 unit at a time into and out of the TCs range. Rinse and Repeat for like 30 units, then move them into a mosque's range and get them healed... pain in the ass and takes a long time, but doable. It would be great if we could "pin" these challenges to the dashboard inside the game to remind ourselves of what we have to do in-game. Also a counter for that challenge would be nice (ex. 0/3000 HP healed on units) but looking at the absolute shit state of the UI upon release, I'm not at all surprised even these basic functions are missing.
Do you remember how you did the "Kill 50 units with Landsknechte" mastery?
Struggling a bit with that one, mainly because my AI opponent never makes more than 50 units it seems like.
Against multiple AI opponents Mangonels make quick work of my Landsknechte.
e: nvm, just have to put the AI on higher difficulty and he puts out some more units to kill.
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On November 14 2021 18:39 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2021 21:41 Latham wrote:On November 10 2021 20:11 Laurens wrote:On November 08 2021 09:43 Latham wrote:I think I like this game Still can't be sure though, need another 500 hours to investigate further. Any tips on how you achieved this without wasting too much time facing the AI? xD Just made a start on English mastery and the first 3 quests are 1) kill a scout in dark age 2) produce 30 longbowmen from council hall in feudal age 3) win a game vs Easy AI So naturally I load up a game vs Easy AI and completed all 3 objectives but only the first 1 got ticked off I'm guessing the best way to go about this is to do one of your current mastery tasks in a multiplayer game and only face the AI when you're explicitly told to? Otherwise it's quite the grind... You can only do 1 challenge at a time, unfortunately. However, you can set the AI to Easy and resources to High and even starting age to whatever you like it to, to not waste time. If it tells you to make King's Palace landmark (economic, age III landmark) and produce 10 workers from it, play vs easy AI, set resources to High (10K of each resource), set age to Age II and map to revealed. With 5 of your starting workers make that landmark, with 6th start building 10 barracks. Queue up like 3-4 more vils in your TC, 1st one makes houses all the others go help make barracks. Once King's Palace is built, queue up 10 workers in it and focus on making men-at-arms or spearmen. Once you have a nice blob (30-40) rush the AI and keep rallying more into his base. Burn everything down except his landmarks. Once you make sure you built 10 or 11 vills from King's Palace landmark, just burn down his TC and/or whatever he built to advance to Castle Age. Btw rushing the AI from 10 rax works on all AI difficulties. From easy to hardest. There are some weird challenges like "kill 20 enemy units with Trebs that have researched Scatter Shot technology" ... because Trebs are fucking terrible at killing units. I shit you not, I had 30 trebs and 50 pikes in front and was trying to kill 20 units for over 40 minutes. Out of 30 shots maybe 1-2 hit every time. Other hard challenges are the ones that require you to heal units. There is no friendly fire in this game so you cant mangonel your own units to half HP and then heal them. In best case, the enemy will be building mangos and you can bait them into shooting your units and retreating to heal them. In wost case, you gotta burn the AI down to the TC and move 1 unit at a time into and out of the TCs range. Rinse and Repeat for like 30 units, then move them into a mosque's range and get them healed... pain in the ass and takes a long time, but doable. It would be great if we could "pin" these challenges to the dashboard inside the game to remind ourselves of what we have to do in-game. Also a counter for that challenge would be nice (ex. 0/3000 HP healed on units) but looking at the absolute shit state of the UI upon release, I'm not at all surprised even these basic functions are missing. Do you remember how you did the "Kill 50 units with Landsknechte" mastery? Struggling a bit with that one, mainly because my AI opponent never makes more than 50 units it seems like. Against multiple AI opponents Mangonels make quick work of my Landsknechte.
I played against medium AI and started in Age I and low resources, but map revealed. It was Hills & Vale map. I stole like 90% of the sheep from the map and walled myself in with stone walls in age II. I boomed with a 2nd TC and got to age III and started making Landsknechte.
!!!! MAKE SURE TO STAY AGE III AND NOT GO IMPERIAL AGE !!!! Stupidly enough, you have to kill 50 units with Landsknechte and you CANNOT upgrade them to Elite Landsknechte or their kills won't count any longer.
Make some 30-50 Landsknechte (blacksmith and barracks upgrades are fine, just not Elite upgrade) and then send them to the AI. If it already has stone wallks, send some rams as well. Kill his army and retreat, let him build it up again. The AI usually comes out when you attack one of the buildings on the edge of its base. If he's gonna camp his forces near the TC and refuses to move out, just go in there and massacre his army near the TC, just make sure to leave the workers intact so he can rebuild his army. Do this 2x or 3x to make sure you killed enough units, and just go in for the final time and kill all the workers as well (villagers count towards that 50 kills you need).
You can try playing against the Mongols, from what I've seen they're pretty aggressive on Hard and Hardest AI if you want to.
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For yesterday's games, it was mostly about which player had the better plan. Execution did not play a huge role. And tbh, the game is not that fun to spectate (and I'm a sucker for RTS esports).
Concerning different civs, French are not as strong as expected (or no one practiced any strat on them as they had to learn other civs and they thought the vanilla French build was enough [it wasn't]), Mongols are actually the top tier civ and we were shown how Delhi were meant to be played. HRE and Chinese MIA, I hope tomorrow's patch fix their prelates and officers, it would change a lot of things for them.
Carrying deers will probably disappear or be nerfed, it's just too much food right under the TC.
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!!!! MAKE SURE TO STAY AGE III AND NOT GO IMPERIAL AGE !!!! Stupidly enough, you have to kill 50 units with Landsknechte and you CANNOT upgrade them to Elite Landsknechte or their kills won't count any longer.
Hahaha wow, what an oversight.
Cheers I did get the mastery eventually, putting the AI on Hard did the trick though it was still a bit of a slog, had to get some trebs out to snipe the landmarks from afar.
Concerning different civs, French are not as strong as expected (or no one practiced any strat on them as they had to learn other civs and they thought the vanilla French build was enough [it wasn't]),
I was really surprised by Lucifron in the French mirror. He got the sea control and then didn't really seem to know what to do. It's like you said, he probably practiced other civs.
He built the economy landmark instead of school of cavalry and then made Knights all the time without doing any trading?!
Kept running knights into his opponent's base to try and snipe villagers but trading 5 knights for 5 villagers just doesn't seem like the play. I also don't see much point in attempting to snipe villagers when your opponent is already at 100+ but maybe I'm wrong there.
He looked to have 0 lategame plan and just rolled over.
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I'm not playing AoE4 at all, just watching. I saw that French mirror between Lucifron and TheViper yesterday and IIRC TheViper had a better map starting point, but somehow Lucifron still won the battle over the water. It was like Laurens said. Lucifron did have a good advantage but then threw it away pretty hard. His small Knight attacks did basically nothing and TheViper outteched him hard just to roll him over. Was painful to see when TheViper reached Age IV lol.
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EPT
