On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
Thank the gods. At least now I have a reason to actually finish the campaign...
On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
I think a lot of people were still worried about these (despite the devs already stating them), so repeating them is probably a good thing.
On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
I think a lot of people were still worried about these (despite the devs already stating them), so repeating them is probably a good thing.
It's no wonder though. Redoing all this stuff would be a huge pain. Some of the worst parts of D4 include dungeons, with all the unnecessary busywork (kill all the mobs here, pull 2 levers that have spikes under them randomly interrupting you, backtrack most of the dungeon to grab the thingie to put on a pedestal, kill 3 things in opposite ends of the dungeon). And the suffering is doubled for MSQ dungeons, where you can't even port to the exit and have to go all the way back.
On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
I think a lot of people were still worried about these (despite the devs already stating them), so repeating them is probably a good thing.
It's no wonder though. Redoing all this stuff would be a huge pain. Some of the worst parts of D4 include dungeons, with all the unnecessary busywork (kill all the mobs here, pull 2 levers that have spikes under them randomly interrupting you, backtrack most of the dungeon to grab the thingie to put on a pedestal, kill 3 things in opposite ends of the dungeon). And the suffering is doubled for MSQ dungeons, where you can't even port to the exit and have to go all the way back.
Honestly, as a frequent completionist of games, I didn't mind the optional grind for Altars of Lilith or renown. And given that the quality of life for D4 dungeons is infinitely better than D2 dungeons, I didn't hate them at all. The fact that the layouts of the dungeons are smarter, more efficient, more circular, easier to travel around, the fact that the enemies are labeled and literally warp to you if you miss them... all these were positives in my book, compared to running around aimlessly and needing to backtrack if you miss, say, a waypoint or objective in D2. Very appreciative of the upgrades and updates made for D4 dungeons, despite the fact that I will still always love D2.
On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
I think a lot of people were still worried about these (despite the devs already stating them), so repeating them is probably a good thing.
It's no wonder though. Redoing all this stuff would be a huge pain. Some of the worst parts of D4 include dungeons, with all the unnecessary busywork (kill all the mobs here, pull 2 levers that have spikes under them randomly interrupting you, backtrack most of the dungeon to grab the thingie to put on a pedestal, kill 3 things in opposite ends of the dungeon). And the suffering is doubled for MSQ dungeons, where you can't even port to the exit and have to go all the way back.
Honestly, as a frequent completionist of games, I didn't mind the optional grind for Altars of Lilith or renown. And given that the quality of life for D4 dungeons is infinitely better than D2 dungeons, I didn't hate them at all. The fact that the layouts of the dungeons are smarter, more efficient, more circular, easier to travel around, the fact that the enemies are labeled and literally warp to you if you miss them... all these were positives in my book, compared to running around aimlessly and needing to backtrack if you miss, say, a waypoint or objective in D2. Very appreciative of the upgrades and updates made for D4 dungeons, despite the fact that I will still always love D2.
The thing about D2 dungeons though is that 90% of them were completely irrelevant bonus content (more like D4 cellars). Unless you mean "normal" dungeons that you have to go through like prison in Act I etc. then I think they're still not that bad because they're part of your story progression so you have something to look forward to at the end.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind extra stuff to do to open doors or new paths but a) not ALL the time (would be fine if it only happened in MSQ dungeons) b) if there was some greater variety to it, right now it seems there's like 3-4 mechanics like that which will get repetitive and annoying fast when you have over 150 dungeons in the game.
On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
I think a lot of people were still worried about these (despite the devs already stating them), so repeating them is probably a good thing.
It's no wonder though. Redoing all this stuff would be a huge pain. Some of the worst parts of D4 include dungeons, with all the unnecessary busywork (kill all the mobs here, pull 2 levers that have spikes under them randomly interrupting you, backtrack most of the dungeon to grab the thingie to put on a pedestal, kill 3 things in opposite ends of the dungeon). And the suffering is doubled for MSQ dungeons, where you can't even port to the exit and have to go all the way back.
Honestly, as a frequent completionist of games, I didn't mind the optional grind for Altars of Lilith or renown. And given that the quality of life for D4 dungeons is infinitely better than D2 dungeons, I didn't hate them at all. The fact that the layouts of the dungeons are smarter, more efficient, more circular, easier to travel around, the fact that the enemies are labeled and literally warp to you if you miss them... all these were positives in my book, compared to running around aimlessly and needing to backtrack if you miss, say, a waypoint or objective in D2. Very appreciative of the upgrades and updates made for D4 dungeons, despite the fact that I will still always love D2.
The thing about D2 dungeons though is that 90% of them were completely irrelevant bonus content (more like D4 cellars). Unless you mean "normal" dungeons that you have to go through like prison in Act I etc. then I think they're still not that bad because they're part of your story progression so you have something to look forward to at the end.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind extra stuff to do to open doors or new paths but a) not ALL the time (would be fine if it only happened in MSQ dungeons) b) if there was some greater variety to it, right now it seems there's like 3-4 mechanics like that which will get repetitive and annoying fast when you have over 150 dungeons in the game.
Yeah I think my biggest gripe with the D4 dungeons is the redundancy (your part b). BotW and especially TotK have a ton of mini-dungeons (shrines), and each one is refreshingly different.
Backtracking is annoying, sure. But that's not all. Somehow the D4 dungeons are just not fun as a whole. A lot of walking, few enemies, boring objectives and a few other things I can't really put my finger on right now. And I'm only pushing T10 NM and I'm losing my will to live after 2 dungeons in a row
On July 07 2023 20:14 Harris1st wrote: Backtracking is annoying, sure. But that's not all. Somehow the D4 dungeons are just not fun as a whole. A lot of walking, few enemies, boring objectives and a few other things I can't really put my finger on right now. And I'm only pushing T10 NM and I'm losing my will to live after 2 dungeons in a row
Few enemies? There are hundreds (maybe even more than a thousand) of enemies in every dungeon, sometimes with mobs that seemingly never end, and with elite / extra strong leaders to boot. Great varieties of monsters, lots of monster properties/abilities, and high quantities of them keep me pretty engaged. I love the fact that sometimes I'm engaged in combat for several straight minutes at a time.
On July 07 2023 20:14 Harris1st wrote: Backtracking is annoying, sure. But that's not all. Somehow the D4 dungeons are just not fun as a whole. A lot of walking, few enemies, boring objectives and a few other things I can't really put my finger on right now. And I'm only pushing T10 NM and I'm losing my will to live after 2 dungeons in a row
Few enemies? There are hundreds (maybe even more than a thousand) of enemies in every dungeon, sometimes with mobs that seemingly never end, and with elite / extra strong leaders to boot. Great varieties of monsters, lots of monster properties/abilities, and high quantities of them keep me pretty engaged. I love the fact that sometimes I'm engaged in combat for several straight minutes at a time.
Im not sure which game you are playing but certainly not Diablo IV. The monster density is abyssmal for an ARPG. There are some dungeons where its better but a lot of dungeons have more walking than actual combat. I am not sure how you are engaged in "straight minutes of combat" because for me its
> Cast > Run > Cast > Run > Run > Run > Cast >Boss one shot >over
Blind Burrows is probably an exception in terms of density. Abandoned Mineworks is good too but a lot of dungeons dont come close
On July 07 2023 20:14 Harris1st wrote: Backtracking is annoying, sure. But that's not all. Somehow the D4 dungeons are just not fun as a whole. A lot of walking, few enemies, boring objectives and a few other things I can't really put my finger on right now. And I'm only pushing T10 NM and I'm losing my will to live after 2 dungeons in a row
Few enemies? There are hundreds (maybe even more than a thousand) of enemies in every dungeon, sometimes with mobs that seemingly never end, and with elite / extra strong leaders to boot. Great varieties of monsters, lots of monster properties/abilities, and high quantities of them keep me pretty engaged. I love the fact that sometimes I'm engaged in combat for several straight minutes at a time.
Im not sure which game you are playing but certainly not Diablo IV. The monster density is abyssmal for an ARPG. There are some dungeons where its better but a lot of dungeons have more walking than actual combat. I am not sure how you are engaged in "straight minutes of combat" because for me its
> Cast > Run > Cast > Run > Run > Run > Cast >Boss one shot >over
Blind Burrows is probably an exception in terms of density. Abandoned Mineworks is good too but a lot of dungeons dont come close
Maybe you're not playing high/difficult enough nightmare dungeons or something? Because it blows my mind that someone would say the dungeons have only a "few enemies". Do you instead mean to say that the large quantity of enemies are getting one-shotted and mowed down very quickly because you're so strong? Or truly that the dungeon literally only has a few enemies? Because I've never played in a dungeon that was essentially empty.
Boring and repetitive objectives in dungeons? Sure. No combat in dungeons? No idea what you're talking about
On July 07 2023 20:14 Harris1st wrote: Backtracking is annoying, sure. But that's not all. Somehow the D4 dungeons are just not fun as a whole. A lot of walking, few enemies, boring objectives and a few other things I can't really put my finger on right now. And I'm only pushing T10 NM and I'm losing my will to live after 2 dungeons in a row
Few enemies? There are hundreds (maybe even more than a thousand) of enemies in every dungeon, sometimes with mobs that seemingly never end, and with elite / extra strong leaders to boot. Great varieties of monsters, lots of monster properties/abilities, and high quantities of them keep me pretty engaged. I love the fact that sometimes I'm engaged in combat for several straight minutes at a time.
On July 07 2023 20:14 Harris1st wrote: Backtracking is annoying, sure. But that's not all. Somehow the D4 dungeons are just not fun as a whole. A lot of walking, few enemies, boring objectives and a few other things I can't really put my finger on right now. And I'm only pushing T10 NM and I'm losing my will to live after 2 dungeons in a row
Few enemies? There are hundreds (maybe even more than a thousand) of enemies in every dungeon, sometimes with mobs that seemingly never end, and with elite / extra strong leaders to boot. Great varieties of monsters, lots of monster properties/abilities, and high quantities of them keep me pretty engaged. I love the fact that sometimes I'm engaged in combat for several straight minutes at a time.
He is talking about density. And yes, it's trash.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then, as I consider killing hundreds (or more) of enemies in around 10 minutes - the time it takes me to clear a dungeon - to be a pretty strong monster density. I'm sure everyone has their own standards though.
I'm not sure increasing mob density would actually benefit anything. Even on levels 40+ with decent build you pretty much instagib everything except big bosses, and it doesn't matter if it's 1 enemy or 50 of them, kill time remains the same. This is actually one of my pet peeves because I delete a group of enemies in a second and then I have to run to another group and there I have 2 potential problems: 1. I found the group too early and my cooldowns are not up yet so there's this awkward moment of dodging and running around until CDs are up and I delete everything in one second again. 2. I found the group and my cooldowns are all up, which means I've been running without fighting for 15 seconds (seems like low density then). It's kinda awkward for pacing really, IMO it should somehow be almost non-stop combat with me taking longer to kill enemies (but then all the cooldown bullshit would have to go and resource management should be more manageable) or I should instagib everything and just continue like that seamlessly deleting group after group without pause (I guess we're back to cooldown issue again).
Maybe it's better at levels 70+ when you have all of your gear and got all the cooldown reduction mods and resource generation mods you need to be able to sustain indefinitely but levels 15-40 have been really awkward for me like that. Run, delete, run, run, run, delete, repeat. Most awkward being having to wait for those cooldowns and just running around doing nothing but dodging and kiting.
I guess this was kinda inherited from D3, where you picked torment level where you could one-shot everything for maximum efficiency, farmed stronger gear and moved to higher torment/higher GRs to once again one-shot everything. Sure, you could go 1 level higher to have a more prolonged fights but that's a) sub-optimal and b) less fun in a game that's all about being OP instagibber. At least in D3 you didn't really have to think about resource management in later stages (you barely clicked any buttons at all).
I wonder if in D4 we'll also see builds that do 400+ quadrillion damage in a few years...
I was wrong. They didn't go for the extra shrine or the extra treasure goblins season. They went for the extra legendary power one. This is Blizzard's "knock it out of the park" peak content for the first season of their new game, by the way.
More and more people are already bored with D4's game loop and this new season 'mechanic' does very little to improve that.
Oh, well. It's the expected quality from Blizzard at this point.
Now that we know when season 1 officially starts, lets do another poll:
Poll: Which class will you play in season 1?
Will not be playing Season 1 (4)
22%
Rogue (coming from a different class) (4)
22%
Sorcerer (coming from a different class) (3)
17%
Barbarian (coming from a different class) (2)
11%
Necromancer (coming from a different class) (2)
11%
Barbarian (same as lauch) (1)
6%
Druid (same as lauch) (1)
6%
Druid (coming from a different class) (1)
6%
Rogue (same as lauch) (0)
0%
Necromancer (same as lauch) (0)
0%
Sorcerer (same as lauch) (0)
0%
18 total votes
Your vote: Which class will you play in season 1?
(Vote): Barbarian (same as lauch) (Vote): Barbarian (coming from a different class) (Vote): Rogue (same as lauch) (Vote): Rogue (coming from a different class) (Vote): Druid (same as lauch) (Vote): Druid (coming from a different class) (Vote): Necromancer (same as lauch) (Vote): Necromancer (coming from a different class) (Vote): Sorcerer (same as lauch) (Vote): Sorcerer (coming from a different class) (Vote): Will not be playing Season 1
On July 07 2023 07:20 iamperfection wrote: so i think they somewhat confirmed before but they explicitly stated now for seasons
Once you have completed the Campaign, any Seasonal character will start the game with:
The option to skip the Campaign. Your Mount available immediately. All previously discovered Altars of Lilith unlocked, and the corresponding Renown for them. All previously discovered areas of the map revealed, and the corresponding renown for them.
I think a lot of people were still worried about these (despite the devs already stating them), so repeating them is probably a good thing.
It's obviously not their first plan considering they needed a work around of having people log in with their most advanced character on July 18 to save progress for their seasonal character.
As for dungeon density, I've been pushing tier 40-55 NM dungeons lately and I think it's fine for the most part. Just don't farm Black Asylum. There are definitely better ones and crappier ones. But for most people, regular dungeons are going to way too easy at some point so I can see why people are complaining about mob density.
My bigger gripe is crap like Stormbane's Wrath, Lightning Storm, Drifting Shade et al being effing annoying while I'm trying to release prisoners or pick up whatever the dungeon's thingamob is or looting. Some of the NM dungeon affixes are just really obnoxious.
Did Blizz mess around with drop rates again? I got 3 copies of Raiment of the Infinite in 90 minutes of NM dungeons this morning. Too bad none of them were clear upgrades over the one I'm currently using.
EPT
