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Huh.... that's kind of interesting they really want to force people into making new characters every season.
On June 20 2023 09:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2023 07:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Beyond fucking stupid.
edit: The perfect blueprint is there for them to copy from. FFXIV and Destiny 2 oddly enough. Destiny 2 for Season progression, and FFXIV for level scaling. Why do you think it's stupid? You can still create non-ladder characters if you want all your progress retained from your first campaign/renown/sidequest playthrough. You're literally getting an additional option here, with seasonal characters, to try new things from the ground up.
I suppose some people might not like the idea of having to start over leveling 1-100 cause that might get boring? And maybe they think it sucks they have to wait like 2 months for the new content to come over to non season?
It is interesting because we're playing with different terms for seasons. Like a Diablo Season is very different than a Destiny season.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
Did you play Diablo 3? This is literally how it worked in D3, and it was exciting. Everyone would be waiting for the new season to check out the new gear, the new race to max level, the new leaderboards in dungeons.
At the moment the leveling process from 1-100 is intimidating, and I hope they fine tune it so that it's easier to complete. They already seem to be doing that with allowing Lilith altars to carry through, and they'll probably implement more changes.
Otherwise what do you do when you hit 100?
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
I'll add the following:
D3 max level was 70. In each season, you'd reach it relatively quickly, then start earning paragon points after. This was endless - you had to grind points endlessly (no fixed cap) to reach a high paragon level in order to have enough stats to keep up with the leaderboards. It wasn't mandatory to enjoy the game, but it was mandatory if you wanted to be extremely competitive.
D4 max level is 50, and to me that's the same as the 1-70 race in D3. The difference is, there is a paragon cap of 100. But you don't NEED to be at 100 to be 'end game', that's just when you stop progressing further. You can start pushing dungeons long before you hit 100.
Basically, don't look at 1-100 as the main game. 1-50 is the initial grind, 50-70 is probably the grind-to-end-game, then 70 onwards is probably when you'd start pushing for nightmare dungeon tiers and what not.
At least, that's what I imagine it to be, as someone who played several D3 seasons but has only reached lvl 55 in D4 because adulting-takes-too-much-time.
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i havent played d4 so i may be wrong but if im not mistaken the complaint arises from the fact that seasonal gameplay in d3 was centered around post lvl 70 grinding. getting to lvl 70 could be done in a matter of hours and you could pretty much immediately start grinding bounties and pushing rifts. also iirc paragon levels werent reset each season, though i might be wrong there.
with d4 it seems theyve deliberately tried to adopt a more d2 style of pacing, except from what ive been gathering, progression just flat out feels worse than d2. when you make it more cumbersome to create characters and build them to a respectable level, its not going to be well received when you tell them that you have to start over each time.
in comparison to d2's seasons its also still a worse experience because at least with d2 theres a way bigger feeling of gratification and accomplishment. kind of making the grind worth the trouble. from what ive seen from people whove played, it doesnt seem like d4's grind feels that rewarding.
to be fair to blizzard though, this is how seasons has always been in diablo for both d2 and d3 so veterans should have seen this coming.
just saw the updated polls. thanks for the new ones. opinions seem to be fairly evenly divided, which is a shame because it doesnt really help me make up my mind 
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
1) Getting to 70 could be done in a matter of minutes eventually if you could have someone boost you + let you loot off their higher level world. Not sure if it'll be done the same way in D4. You're right though, I suspect 1-50 will take longer than 1-70. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
2) Paragon levels reset every season, but were server wide. If it were the same in D4, then any alt that hits 50 is automatically boosted with paragon levels to the same level as your main. They probably won't do this, so you're right, alts won't be as easy to make in D4. This might change with time as they fine tune things?
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Yeah I can attest to 1).
I'mma be real: I loved D3 seasons but god I hated the 1-70 experience. I usually skipped on the first night and have my friends powerlevel me the following night.
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I think my biggest gripe with D4 is they have the itemization power progression equivalent of D3 paragon, where most people by low 80's should have perfect affixes on all their gear, with only perfect rolls to hunt for. At the same time, you can't reliably drop the ancestral items until probably high 60's to low 70's.
The unicorn items are so rare that they might as well not exist. Shako would be +30% damage to my build or something crazy like that, but with a handful worldwide, I doubt I'd ever get one. People had Enigma's and Griffons and so on less than a week into D2R ladder with how many bots and people played.
The Aspect system is okay, but really, really needs some sorting and search tools.
D4 paragon I think is a good system, but could be great. In addition to the regular glyph slots, there should be room for the magic glyphs. It's also hampered by a lack of UI tools for buildcrafting.
Lastly, the unique pool is pretty mediocre. I'm using 3 at the moment, but I'm considering dropping them because not having any affix free to reroll is pretty killer, even if the effect is good.
I am at level 78 now, and pretty comfortably doing high 30 NM dungeons on flurry rogue. I might eventually have to go TB when I hit the damage ceiling, but there's definitely a few more items to go. Doing somewhere around 500k AoE DPS at the moment if I were to guess.
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Really? We are now supposed to be outraged about the seasonal journey progression requiring you to play a season character?
Seriously?
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Just Stealthblue things, everyone else is fine with it.
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On June 20 2023 17:07 Gorsameth wrote:
Really? We are now supposed to be outraged about the seasonal journey progression requiring you to play a season character?
Seriously?
The twitter responses are quite interesting. Seems like it's just a handful of people who are not familiar with general aRPG-type seasonal gameplay and expected it to be an MMORPG equivalent where you play a permanent character.
That's always been the case with a few friends who I introduced to Path of Exile, too. The first big reaction of, "What? You START OVER every few months!?"
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On June 20 2023 14:05 Firebolt145 wrote:Did you play Diablo 3? This is literally how it worked in D3, and it was exciting. Everyone would be waiting for the new season to check out the new gear, the new race to max level, the new leaderboards in dungeons. At the moment the leveling process from 1-100 is intimidating, and I hope they fine tune it so that it's easier to complete. They already seem to be doing that with allowing Lilith altars to carry through, and they'll probably implement more changes. Otherwise what do you do when you hit 100?
Diablo 2 did the same thing, yep.
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On June 20 2023 12:49 lestye wrote:Huh.... that's kind of interesting they really want to force people into making new characters every season. Show nested quote +On June 20 2023 09:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Why do you think it's stupid? You can still create non-ladder characters if you want all your progress retained from your first campaign/renown/sidequest playthrough. You're literally getting an additional option here, with seasonal characters, to try new things from the ground up. I suppose some people might not like the idea of having to start over leveling 1-100 cause that might get boring? And maybe they think it sucks they have to wait like 2 months for the new content to come over to non season? It is interesting because we're playing with different terms for seasons. Like a Diablo Season is very different than a Destiny season.
What's the alternative? Since I have a level 70 druid, I should be able to make a rogue that's preset to be level 70 without needing to put in any new work for that character? Seems like asking for way too much imo.
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On June 20 2023 18:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2023 12:49 lestye wrote:Huh.... that's kind of interesting they really want to force people into making new characters every season. On June 20 2023 09:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Why do you think it's stupid? You can still create non-ladder characters if you want all your progress retained from your first campaign/renown/sidequest playthrough. You're literally getting an additional option here, with seasonal characters, to try new things from the ground up. I suppose some people might not like the idea of having to start over leveling 1-100 cause that might get boring? And maybe they think it sucks they have to wait like 2 months for the new content to come over to non season? It is interesting because we're playing with different terms for seasons. Like a Diablo Season is very different than a Destiny season. What's the alternative? Since I have a level 70 druid, I should be able to make a rogue that's preset to be level 70 without needing to put in any new work for that character? Seems like asking for way too much imo.
70 is not that impressive some people already have level 100s
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Basically what everyone needs to do now is get all Altars and explore the map since that carries over to the seasons. Then you can decide if you want to push your "endless" char further or if you want to start new in season 1
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On June 20 2023 18:49 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2023 18:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 20 2023 12:49 lestye wrote:Huh.... that's kind of interesting they really want to force people into making new characters every season. On June 20 2023 09:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Why do you think it's stupid? You can still create non-ladder characters if you want all your progress retained from your first campaign/renown/sidequest playthrough. You're literally getting an additional option here, with seasonal characters, to try new things from the ground up. I suppose some people might not like the idea of having to start over leveling 1-100 cause that might get boring? And maybe they think it sucks they have to wait like 2 months for the new content to come over to non season? It is interesting because we're playing with different terms for seasons. Like a Diablo Season is very different than a Destiny season. What's the alternative? Since I have a level 70 druid, I should be able to make a rogue that's preset to be level 70 without needing to put in any new work for that character? Seems like asking for way too much imo. 70 is not that impressive some people already have level 100s
Holy whoosh, Batman. That's not even remotely the point. I picked an arbitrary class and level. Why do you think someone deserves a level 100 rogue without putting in any additional effort simply because they have a level 100 druid?
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
I think you're both making the same point.
On June 20 2023 19:00 Harris1st wrote:
Basically what everyone needs to do now is get all Altars and explore the map since that carries over to the seasons. Then you can decide if you want to push your "endless" char further or if you want to start new in season 1
Yeah pretty much. And get a feel for each class so you can choose what you really want to main when the season starts, when it matters.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
Also I finally swapped my Druid from Tornado to Bear because I was simply not getting the 'tornado targets 1-3 targets' legendary to drop despite 5 days of helltide farming, and in the meantime I had dropped 3 of the Vasily's Prayer uniques for Bear.
Of course 2-3 hours later my first tornado legendary drops. Naturally.
Probably will stick it out as Bear because I'm having fun and the Tornado unique hasn't dropped for me yet.
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On June 20 2023 19:00 Harris1st wrote:
Basically what everyone needs to do now is get all Altars and explore the map since that carries over to the seasons. Then you can decide if you want to push your "endless" char further or if you want to start new in season 1
Yup, that's what i am doing, It is boring as hell to be honest tho.
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is awesome32278 Posts
We will have lots of seasons of powercreep to go through. What might seem like a lot right now might be an hour of leveling in season 5 or 6.
I'm more worried about how they are going to keep ther lategame interesting than having to figure how to level a character at season start.
In the end, leveling is just another fraction of what makes an ARPG, and being knowledgeable and experimenting with what items you find along your leveling progress tests your mechanics knowledge and adds another layer to the game. That is, if the game is fun.
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The only time I played a season in D3, I got boosted by a friend from 1-70. Then I boosted his alt and then he boosted my alt.
I just got to level 75 on my ice shards sorc and got my 3rd glyph to level 15. With 2 level 15 glyphs, I got to around level 38-40 nightmare dungeons. Don't feel like pushing, even with the additional glyph. The 30s feel like a good place to be for my char.
Admittedly, I got lost when starting an alt. D2 was on rails. D3 let you go rifting immediately after allowing players to skip the campaign. When I started my alt, I was like wtf do I go? I feel at some point, they're going to let people keep all map progress and waypoints on alts. It's a pain to uncover them again. I finished uncovering the map and getting 2000 renown on every zone in T3 with my first char before moving to T4.
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EPT
