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On June 18 2023 20:54 Vinekh wrote:
Diablo 4 successfully recreates the feel of D3 RoS and I think that this was the goal for Blizzard. I think that in their eyes Diablo 3 was a major success, which just shows how out of touch they are and that they don't really care about it.
Because it was a major success? I mean that's their goal is to marry the good parts of D3 with D1/2.
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On June 19 2023 17:35 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2023 20:54 Vinekh wrote:
Diablo 4 successfully recreates the feel of D3 RoS and I think that this was the goal for Blizzard. I think that in their eyes Diablo 3 was a major success, which just shows how out of touch they are and that they don't really care about it. Because it was a major success? I mean that's their goal is to marry the good parts of D3 with D1/2.
Depends on how you measure success.
D1 and D2 were ground breaking and created a genre of their own. Diablo 3 is forgettable, at best.
If we are talking sales, then yes its a major success... for Boby Kotick. Major success in the same way FIFA and Madden are. I'm sure D4 is already a major success, as well.
Where are the good parts from D1 and 2 ? I fail to see any.
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On June 19 2023 18:06 Vinekh wrote:
Where are the good parts from D1 and 2 ? I fail to see any.
They tried to do something that would resemble those games but unfortunately failed at both. Dark atmosphere from D1 which can be seen in some of the environmental design and classes with skill trees from D2. It feels like they wanted those things but also just a bit of them and not fully embrace them to make it safe. In the end it's kinda dark but not as dark as D1, there just isn't this oppressive feeling of fear and anxiety, it also has classes and skill trees but they're not as extensive or impactful as in D2.
Edit:
I really fail to see how they could botch up such a simple concept. In a game like that you don't really need the large open world (something that kinda irked me about D2 and D3 too), especially if the supposed endgame is going to be you running the dungeons. Why not go back to basics and make it more like D1? You have just one town with all the services and you just go into nearby dungeons to delve deeper and deeper into them. Simple and effective. Also easy to add on to as you can simply add more dungeons whenever you want (you can even add dungeons inside of dungeons).
This way you solve most of the problems of D4. You have a hub for people to hang out, there's no confusion as to where to go and what to do, you can easily judge your power and progression by just looking at your progress with the dungeons (what floor of which dungeon you're able to clear).
With this design you can add whatever combat system you want, it's all easier to develop and design around and then balance (all of the sudden you don't need mounts and stuff, all the time designing different towns and areas can just go into designing dungeons).
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So I switched from Arc Lash / Chain Lightning to a Ice Shard build and suddenly the game is actually VERY fun! Level 50 now and just did the dungeon from WT2 to WT3.
I can only advise everyone who is bored with the combat should try out some new build or other classes.
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I hit a wall in the low 70s with my ice shard sorc and started a rogue. A few thoughts:
1. The game is really fun. It's only good so far, not great, but I think the bones of a great game is somewhere there. It just needs some tweaking. I enjoyed all games in the series so far. I played D2 and D3 for the first 4-5 years of their existence and they weren't made in a day. The people who sing the praises about D2 constantly are talking about a game I don't recognize. If there is somebody here who would do the same for D3, I probably won't recognize that game too.
2. Leveling is just way too slow after you get past level 50. I'm kinda keeping track of my pace. At my pace, I spent around 50 hours to finish the campaign on T2. I spent around 30 hours to gain roughly 10 levels each in T3 and T4, with some of that time in T3 spent finishing renown. Perhaps that will change if nightmare dungeons give more exp.
3. They dropped the ball with nightmare dungeons. At level 75, I'm already at the point in the game where T4 is easier than T2, might even be equivalent to T1. I'm more squishy but the mobs die as fast as T1 mobs do. However, doing the nightmare dungeons is just so unrewarding. I'm glad they're raising exp gain in a patch but they should raise item drop quality as well. The overworld and regular dungeons are more rewarding because of how easy they are in comparison.
The difficulty modifiers are terrible. Some will just destroy your build. 60% damage resist against crit damage or my damage type (specific element or physical) is just a salvage if they roll against my build. Some are just there to harass the player while they are looting. Those are really obnoxious too.
4. I agree with Nony about itemization. Too much complexity is not a good thing in this case. I should be able to eye upgrades and get rid of unneeded shit much faster than this. There are way too many affixes. Same thing with how much grinding there is to play a different build. Either ease the leveling so I can make a new character of the same class or give me more stash space to store backup gear for different builds. I already have more than 1 of the 4 shared stash tabs filled with backup aspects and I've only played 1 char so far.
5. The combat is great once you get your build going but some builds are so painful while leveling up. Imagine if mana steal was so rare and so small in D2 before you hit level 50. The physical classes would just be painful to play until then. That's D4 (I guess D3 was kinda similar in some way) for most builds it seems. Ice shards sorc is totally different with 35% CDR and 25% MCR. I think I have around 25-30% extra mana regen as well. The game might be better off if they rebalanced it around having these numbers naturally and just remove these affixes entirely from items.
I'm not too fond of the vulnerable meta either. Some builds have easier access than others. And it lasts too short for the current rotations.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Now that the game has been out for a couple of weeks:
EDIT: NEW POLLS for easier view. Please vote again if you already had:
Poll: How do you rate Diablo 4? (v2)10/10 (0) 0% 9/10 (2) 10% 8/10 (8) 38% 7/10 (4) 19% 6/10 (2) 10% 5/10 (2) 10% Less than 5/10 (3) 14% 21 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ 10/10
☐ 9/10
☐ 8/10
☐ 7/10
☐ 6/10
☐ 5/10
☐ Less than 5/10
Poll: Woudl you recomend someone to buy Diablo 4?Yes, definitely (8) 42% Yes, but wait for a sale. (1) 5% Yes, but wait for seasons updates (2) 11% No (8) 42% Maybe depending on patches (0) 0% 19 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Yes, definitely
☐ Yes, but wait for a sale.
☐ Yes, but wait for seasons updates
☐ No
☐ Maybe depending on patches
Old polls:
+ Show Spoiler +Poll: How do you rate Diablo 4?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ 10/10
☐ 9/10
☐ 8/10
☐ 7/10
☐ 6/10
☐ 5/10
☐ Less than 5/10
Poll: Woudl you recomend someone to buy Diablo 4?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Yes, definitely
☐ Yes, but wait for a sale.
☐ Yes, but wait for seasons/patches
☐ No
☐ Maybe depending on patches
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Hold the **** up.... so when the new Season starts we lose our physical char levels?! Not just our renown etc.
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how do u check poll results without voting?
maybe add an option for guys to click without having to skew the results by pressing on a legit option
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On June 20 2023 01:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Hold the **** up.... so when the new Season starts we lose our physical char levels?!
No.
Not just our renown etc.
Also no.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Updated the polls so that you can view the results without voting. Please vote again. 
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after playing a bit more, I really feel the progression is way to slow.
I'm currently lvl 58 Necro and i'm doing T16 NM dungeon amd I hardly get 1/4 of a level for a dungeon. This feel so fucking slow :\
it's even worst, i just did a T16 NM and i didn't event got 1 paragon from it... this is dum
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On June 20 2023 04:29 FaCE_1 wrote:
after playing a bit more, I really feel the progression is way to slow.
I'm currently lvl 58 Necro and i'm doing T16 NM dungeon amd I hardly get 1/4 of a level for a dungeon. This feel so fucking slow :\
it's even worst, i just did a T16 NM and i didn't event got 1 paragon from it... this is dum
At this point for XP, its better to run normal dungeons in the open world. NM dungeons are only good for glyph XP at the moment.
They nerf these weekly in hotfixes, so the ranking varies every week, but right now the best 3 are:
1. Uldur's Cave (Khejistan) [10M XP/hour]
2. Charnel House (Dry Steppes) / Blind Burrows (Hawezar) [~9.3M XP/h]
3. Champ's Demise (Dry Steppes) / Iron Hold (Hawezar) [~8.8M XP/h]
The XP/h is assuming you can just plow through everything while running, kinda like a WW Barbarian does... your mileage way vary depending on your class's clear speed.
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Ya, NM dungeons suck for anything other than being the only source of glyph XP. I actually like playing them more if the rewards scale better compared to normal dungeons and the overworld. Those are too easy now. The issues with monster CC rears its ugly head in harder content though and its worse if you get bad rolls like multiple cold enchanted elites that chain freeze you. But then again, stupid affix combinations is a series staple since D2.
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On June 19 2023 18:06 Vinekh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2023 17:35 lestye wrote:On June 18 2023 20:54 Vinekh wrote:
Diablo 4 successfully recreates the feel of D3 RoS and I think that this was the goal for Blizzard. I think that in their eyes Diablo 3 was a major success, which just shows how out of touch they are and that they don't really care about it. Because it was a major success? I mean that's their goal is to marry the good parts of D3 with D1/2. Depends on how you measure success. D1 and D2 were ground breaking and created a genre of their own. Diablo 3 is forgettable, at best. If we are talking sales, then yes its a major success... for Boby Kotick. Major success in the same way FIFA and Madden are. I'm sure D4 is already a major success, as well. Where are the good parts from D1 and 2 ? I fail to see any.
A major success for the franchise and millions of people love it? I wouldn't describe D3 as forgettable... even the awful story is unforgettable how bad it is.
And Yeah.... FIFA and Madden are also super successful? Millions of people love those games.
The tone/art style and the talent trees. Itemization to an extent. It's not D1/2 itemization but there's DNA in there.
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On June 20 2023 01:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Hold the **** up.... so when the new Season starts we lose our physical char levels?! Not just our renown etc. Seasons are entirely optional.
The base d4 experience you are having now is not going away. Seasons offer the chance to start, somewhat, fresh along with everyone else and see how far you can get x amount of time, if you feel so inclined.
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On June 20 2023 06:24 lestye wrote:
And Yeah.... FIFA and Madden are also super successful? Millions of people love those games.
People actually kinda hate those games but they simply don't have alternatives. If there were other games within the genre that would also have access to real player names and teams the situation would be different. PES is kind of a competition for FIFA (and everyone I know who played FIFA switched over to PES once they tried it out) but it doesn't have all the teams/players and what they have might be outdated (unless you're on PC and mod it) which is a big turnoff for a lot of people.
Sadly in those games what counts is name/team recognition. You can have the best football game ever mechanically but if you don't have the cash and reach to sign the contracts with all the teams to be able to use their brands and player names people simply won't play your game.
That's why I wouldn't really put FIFA and Madden as any success story. It's just another sad story about big corp money holding customers hostage, monopolizing the market and churning out overpriced garbage year after year. The only way to stop it would be for all those players to suddenly not buy those games but it's a hard ask.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On June 20 2023 01:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Hold the **** up.... so when the new Season starts we lose our physical char levels?! Not just our renown etc.
I haven't looked into how D4 seasons work
But in D3 a new season = you have to create new characters to be part of the season to have access to seasonal drops. Your previous characters still exist, but they won't be seasonal, and therefore won't get seasonal drops, or be on the leaderboards etc.
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On June 20 2023 06:53 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2023 06:24 lestye wrote:
And Yeah.... FIFA and Madden are also super successful? Millions of people love those games.
People actually kinda hate those games but they simply don't have alternatives. If there were other games within the genre that would also have access to real player names and teams the situation would be different. PES is kind of a competition for FIFA (and everyone I know who played FIFA switched over to PES once they tried it out) but it doesn't have all the teams/players and what they have might be outdated (unless you're on PC and mod it) which is a big turnoff for a lot of people. Sadly in those games what counts is name/team recognition. You can have the best football game ever mechanically but if you don't have the cash and reach to sign the contracts with all the teams to be able to use their brands and player names people simply won't play your game. That's why I wouldn't really put FIFA and Madden as any success story. It's just another sad story about big corp money holding customers hostage, monopolizing the market and churning out overpriced garbage year after year. The only way to stop it would be for all those players to suddenly not buy those games but it's a hard ask.
Holding customers hostage by....how exactly? They're not forced at gunpoint to play the game. If you think FIFA sucks I'd love to know your thoughts on the latest iteration on PES.
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Beyond fucking stupid.
edit: The perfect blueprint is there for them to copy from. FFXIV and Destiny 2 oddly enough. Destiny 2 for Season progression, and FFXIV for level scaling.
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Why do you think it's stupid? You can still create non-ladder characters if you want all your progress retained from your first campaign/renown/sidequest playthrough. You're literally getting an additional option here, with seasonal characters, to try new things from the ground up.
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EPT
