EPTDiablo IV - Page 101
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uummpaa
238 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On July 22 2023 06:33 uummpaa wrote: oh look, respec costs down by 40 % one month after release, guess it will be finally free next year then but i guess there was no way to predict that those costs were a bad idea in the first place I think Llama made good point about this he said the problem with the respecs isn't the cost but the tedium of it. (how long it takes to switch stuff around, no "loadouts") | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17733 Posts
On July 22 2023 05:53 BluemoonSC wrote: after watching the developer livestream, i have lost all faith in the team in charge of producing content for this game. such a shame because i feel all of the pieces are there. saying things like...that they REALIZED reducing XP constituted a nerf without density changes...said that they felt nightmare dungeons were OVERTUNED, yet nerfed player power.. told me everything i needed to know. no one over there actually plays the game. Not sure they can change density without ruining the early-mid game for people. Since they opted for this stupid generator/spender system where during the leveling process you're forced to use the shitty generator (that no one puts more than 1 point into ever) because there's no mana management yet. After a while you can even drop the generator altogether but your 3 skill points will remain tied to it (which begs the question why it's there in the first place) but in the beginning it's such a chore to hear "not enough mana" or whatever and having to switch to your shit generator for a bit to again be able to use the skill you actually want to be using. If they'd increase density across the board the early-mid game resource problems would just be exacerbated. On July 22 2023 08:54 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think Llama made good point about this he said the problem with the respecs isn't the cost but the tedium of it. (how long it takes to switch stuff around, no "loadouts") I agree here. IMO you either should have unlimited free respecs or no respecs at all. The way they did it in D4 is weird not just because of skills and paragon board (I think Llama mentioned that if he had to redo the paragon board he'd rather just level new char) but also all of your equipment since there's rarely good crossover stuff between different builds (not enough good generic items that can be used for different stuff). I really, REALLY, hope that it's not all there just to facilitate typical monetization strategies like making simple stuff complex and introducing problems on purpose just to later sell you a solution (usually QOL stuff). Right now it kinda smells like that's what they wanted to do but maybe now need to backtrack because of the backlash. And I think it's good there's backlash because they might've just been testing the waters to see how much inconvenience people can handle so that they know where to set up toll gates. | ||
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uummpaa
238 Posts
On July 22 2023 08:54 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think Llama made good point about this he said the problem with the respecs isn't the cost but the tedium of it. (how long it takes to switch stuff around, no "loadouts") i heard that one quite a bit and i agree that this a a huge pain as well, but i still hate the costs more personally i am honestly under the impression that the devs were listing to a VERY loud minority that thought "POE and D2 are great games and have (almost) no respec costs and therefore this is what makes them great" or "D3 had it and its terrible" which is obviously a gross oversimplification but this nonsense is in game now and there is obviously a big que for QoL improvements like this we'll have to wait months for the devs to get there (which i get, the mistakes were made before release and now this stuff will take time) in the end it boils down for me to the same thing i did with D3, i played it a bit on release and i didnt touch it for the better part of a year when it actually became fun to play. same happend now in D4 (even though its in a much better state then D3 was, but still quite underwhelming to me), i didnt even bother with Season 1 and i am fairly certain that a year from now the game will be in a much better state overall only shame is that the Diablo franchise is so bloody iconic, and all they managed to release is this extremly bland and unpolished game | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
On July 22 2023 18:48 uummpaa wrote: i heard that one quite a bit and i agree that this a a huge pain as well, but i still hate the costs more personally i am honestly under the impression that the devs were listing to a VERY loud minority that thought "POE and D2 are great games and have (almost) no respec costs and therefore this is what makes them great" or "D3 had it and its terrible" which is obviously a gross oversimplification but this nonsense is in game now and there is obviously a big que for QoL improvements like this we'll have to wait months for the devs to get there (which i get, the mistakes were made before release and now this stuff will take time) in the end it boils down for me to the same thing i did with D3, i played it a bit on release and i didnt touch it for the better part of a year when it actually became fun to play. same happend now in D4 (even though its in a much better state then D3 was, but still quite underwhelming to me), i didnt even bother with Season 1 and i am fairly certain that a year from now the game will be in a much better state overall only shame is that the Diablo franchise is so bloody iconic, and all they managed to release is this extremly bland and unpolished game Path of Exiles respec costs are WAY higher than Diablo 4's in addition to getting the currency you need directly from playing the game in Diablo 4. Im a very big Path of Exile fan and I'm also an advocate in having skillpoints and builds mean something and not be able to switch on the fly yet in PoE the costs are insane. You get some respec points via quests but other than that you have to get orbs of regret (find, trade, buy from vendors for other orbs) which means there is no real guarantee that you get plenty if you want to fully respec. In D4 you can easily fully repec - you could before cost reduction too. Respecs shouldnt be free and you also shouldnt be able to swap your build around for content. Part of an ARPG should be building a meaningful character which can be Bosskillers Clear/Farm Allrounder etc Having free respects and a switch to swap between builds will simply result in you have 3 specific gearsetups and builds (loadout lol) and never have to make any decision for content. Thats simply bad design of a game. Characters and their progression should have meaningful decisions and strengths as well as weaknesses. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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uummpaa
238 Posts
On July 22 2023 20:43 TaKeTV wrote: Path of Exiles respec costs are WAY higher than Diablo 4's in addition to getting the currency you need directly from playing the game in Diablo 4. Im a very big Path of Exile fan and I'm also an advocate in having skillpoints and builds mean something and not be able to switch on the fly yet in PoE the costs are insane. You get some respec points via quests but other than that you have to get orbs of regret (find, trade, buy from vendors for other orbs) which means there is no real guarantee that you get plenty if you want to fully respec. In D4 you can easily fully repec - you could before cost reduction too. Respecs shouldnt be free and you also shouldnt be able to swap your build around for content. Part of an ARPG should be building a meaningful character which can be Bosskillers Clear/Farm Allrounder etc Having free respects and a switch to swap between builds will simply result in you have 3 specific gearsetups and builds (loadout lol) and never have to make any decision for content. Thats simply bad design of a game. Characters and their progression should have meaningful decisions and strengths as well as weaknesses. look, im not going to waste my time with the "meanigful choices" crowd again if you want to lvl a new "meanigful" char every time you want to try a new build, go for it. why the mere option for people who want to spend their time ingame otherwise makes that not possible for the likes of you i will never understand, but whatever (something about competitivenes in a game without leaderboards or good ole "it doesnt feel right" i guess) and what ARPGs "typically" have or not is subject to change, D1 didnt even have specs so there is that... | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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uummpaa
238 Posts
On July 22 2023 21:45 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Well I think in D1 you can't redistribute your stat points at all can you? They're permanent, as all spells learnt. stat points aint no spec and you could learn ALL the spells you had the int for so thats no valid comparison there | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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uummpaa
238 Posts
On July 22 2023 21:59 ProMeTheus112 wrote: You can't learn the spells if you don't have the stats for it so so what? what on earth does this have to do with anything talked about above? chars had different max stats anyway, and with gear you could expand for learning spells. none of that had anything to do with specs in the sense of D2 and onwards but sure, whatever your point was you were correct and i was wrong, we can move on now... | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On July 22 2023 22:02 uummpaa wrote: so what? what on earth does this have to do with anything talked about above? chars had different max stats anyway, and with gear you could expand for learning spells. none of that had anything to do with specs in the sense of D2 and onwards but sure, whatever your point was you were correct and i was wrong, we can move on now... Sure agreed | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
On July 22 2023 21:43 uummpaa wrote: look, im not going to waste my time with the "meanigful choices" crowd again if you want to lvl a new "meanigful" char every time you want to try a new build, go for it. why the mere option for people who want to spend their time ingame otherwise makes that not possible for the likes of you i will never understand, but whatever (something about competitivenes in a game without leaderboards or good ole "it doesnt feel right" i guess) and what ARPGs "typically" have or not is subject to change, D1 didnt even have specs so there is that... Players are often not good game designers and what they desire isn't making for a fun overall experience. I'm not sure my idea is better than yours but the past showed that simply being able to swap around stuff with one button leads to issues. Why let the player make any decision at all - if its designed like you wish for the developer can simply give you 20 characters and builds and you pick whatever content. | ||
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uummpaa
238 Posts
On July 22 2023 22:23 TaKeTV wrote: Players are often not good game designers and what they desire isn't making for a fun overall experience. I'm not sure my idea is better than yours but the past showed that simply being able to swap around stuff with one button leads to issues. Why let the player make any decision at all - if its designed like you wish for the developer can simply give you 20 characters and builds and you pick whatever content. i see, would you care to name me some of those "issues"? apart from artificially keeping players ingame longer cause they have to lvl chars all the time ofc. and i am so, so tired of those reductio ad absurdums. if you feel that free respecs is the same as that nonsense you wrote in that second paragraph than thats your own problem honestly. if you cant see that respecs give you even more decisions then less i dont know how iu could possibly explain it but again you are correct i am not sry for bothering | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45707 Posts
On July 22 2023 08:54 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think Llama made good point about this he said the problem with the respecs isn't the cost but the tedium of it. (how long it takes to switch stuff around, no "loadouts") I think this is the most sensible take. I don't think the respecs should be free, and they certainly aren't too expensive. They take some time and effort to deselect/select all the skills and nodes - and that's really not a huge deal - but it'd be pretty cool if you could save skill tree + paragon point builds. That's just a quality of life thing though, for people who don't want to spend 10-20 minutes undoing/redoing builds. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45707 Posts
On July 21 2023 05:57 Sermokala wrote: I've been really on the fence about getting it vs just waiting until poe2 comes out. Is there new content each "season" or is it more of just like new maps or something? There is new content every season. | ||
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0x64
Finland4613 Posts
I played d4 with anecro and I felt like my Skeletons looked like shit. D2 skill tree was great and very clear. But it old to have the potions on 1-4 hotkeys. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
On July 22 2023 22:23 TaKeTV wrote: Players are often not good game designers and what they desire isn't making for a fun overall experience. I'm not sure my idea is better than yours but the past showed that simply being able to swap around stuff with one button leads to issues. Why let the player make any decision at all - if its designed like you wish for the developer can simply give you 20 characters and builds and you pick whatever content. Isn't that just called "mods" and actually very common? | ||
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