EPTDotA [Backdoor] - Page 5
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 29 2009 13:00 KurtistheTurtle wrote: But my OWN TEAM was getting on me. We had just had 2 previous team fights where we initiated and got all our stuns off and they still killed all 5 of us for 1 maybe 2 people. I was the one who explained the strategy and called the ganks the entire game up to that point, and everybody still called me noob at the end. I was the only person in that game thinking about the metagame. I mean honestly...wtf? Are there any dota communities where I don't have to deal with this kind of retardation? It's a BATTLENET pub. When I first started playing on Garena and it used to crash, sometimes I'd do BNET DOTA pubs - they are the equivalent of BW games where guys get mad at you for cliffing their nat on LT, 4 pooling them, and all kinds of shit. Just ignore it and keep raping. You had a team of whiners and unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it, unlike in BW where you'd just unally and rape his ass too. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
On May 29 2009 13:06 Ace wrote: Just ignore it and keep raping. You had a team of whiners and unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it, unlike in BW where you'd just unally and rape his ass too. That's what I usually do, but now I'm getting banned for this shit. The next 5 games I tried joining I got booted. I think I'll try out garena | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
So I bottled an illusion rune with mirana, and with aid of lothars and leap got right next to their rax undetected. I wiped it out, caused mega creeps and gg. . That right there means you went the wrong items. Mirana is a ganker that goes into a late game semi carry (who if you out farm your opponent like you describe, should be raping hardcore). To you saying that leagues do not ban backdooring, im not talking about TDA which is mostly bnet pubs who think they are good. Im talking about leagues that actually have prizes and you play people who are good as a team. Most all of them do not allow backdooring: Cevo Free and Cevo Pro: 19.40 Backdooring (Creep Skipping) Attacking towers before your creep's are inside the attack radius is allowed for the outside 2 towers in each lane. Team's who attack beyond this point if no creeps are inside opponent's base will receive a FF LOSS. If your creep's die while attacking a base structure you will still able to continue your assault. However once your opponents creep's are out of the attack radius, the structures will be immune until your next push. DXD league: Backdooring: You MAY NOT attack any building within the enemy base without creep support. You MAY attack any building in the base, but you must enter the base through the same lane your creep support is in. If no creeps are already in the enemy base, you may push with a creep wave and attack buildings so long as you are within 700 range of your team's creeps when you begin to attack buildings or enter the base. If your creep support dies after you have pushed into the base, you may continue to attack buildings until you leave the base, but if you use any spell that makes you invisible such as Wind Walk, Lothar's Edge, or Permanent Invisibility you must attack a building within 10 seconds of your creep support dying or it is considered backdoor. NAIHL: Backdooring Backdooring any of the 2 outer towers in each lane is completely legal. Base towers and buildings may not be attacked until creeps have entered the base. Entering the base is defined as reaching the top of the hill in any base entrance. Heroes must enter through the same entrance that creeps did. Once there are no more creeps in the base, heroes are allowed to continue attacking buildings. If there are no creeps in the base and the heroes have left, creeps must enter the base again before heroes can attack buildings. That is just a few leagues that specify backdooring rules. If you want you can go here: http://www.garena.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=213078&extra=page=1 to check lists of other leagues that have said rules, but they all follow relatively the same guidelines. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
That right there means you went the wrong items. Mirana is a ganker that goes into a late game semi carry (who if you out farm your opponent like you describe, should be raping hardcore). Oh I know. It was a weird game and I didn't get that much farm until mjollnir, I had 20+ assists. I threw together the lothars out of bfly/decapitator money Thanks for the actual league rules. I guess I'll just have to adhere to host/wherever I'm playing. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On May 29 2009 12:52 KurtistheTurtle wrote: I've read in higher level dota play, TDA+, backdooring is allowed. Only in public games and some other lower level places is it not. It sounds to me like the public dota community figured out a way to outlaw dota cheesing. >.> So it's inconvenient. Icefrog made it so towers you hadn't gotten to yet are invulnerable. If he wanted to outlaw bd'ing, he'd implement the same kind of coding he has that doesn't let you attack rosh--but he didn't. If he does it in 6.6, I'll eat my words. Until then, I think teams should develop strategies and habits that take into account all possibilities that can occur with in the game, whether thats carrying tp scrolls/having some dedicated defenders. F9 and look at the linked rules--bd'ing is allowed. In my specific case, an -rd game, my team had chosen a majority of early-game heroes. Our strategy was to push as hard and as fast as we could early game because as soon as the 50 min mark hit we wouldn't be able to win team fights. The point of the game we were at was well past the 60 min mark, and we had pushed down every lane of theirs except one. We'd killed the tower already. So I bottled an illusion rune with mirana, and with aid of lothars and leap got right next to their rax undetected. I wiped it out, caused mega creeps and gg. They were pushing bottom (their good rax were top) and had I stayed top to fight, I would have just died or fired an arrow or two that wouldn't really amount to anything. I also looked through their items and saw not a SINGLE one of them had a tp that didn't have BoT. They would have finished us with that push. Instead I took the last strategy that could result in a win and used it. If I had tried pushing top from where the creep waves were, I never would have made it in time. 1. TDA is NOT higher level play. The reason backdooring is accepted in TDA is because TDA admins don't want to have to enforce rules beyond those they can use a replay parser for. Imagine if you had to watch 60 replays a day to see if BD was performed or not. Fun? No. The majority of cash leagues and tournaments ban backdooring. Why? Because if you need to TP 2-3 heroes back, you can't fucking counterpush, now can you? In the worst instance, you simply have a furion tree pop up in your opponents base that someone like CK or krob tps to, obliterating the tower asap. The entire reason why there was +10000 tower armor and now tower invulnerability was implemented in the game was to stop shit like that. 2. The rules posted in the information section of the map are for TDA. Tournaments make their own rules. Tournaments regularly ban shit like multiple mek/AR/Euls/guinsoo and the only one which has been pseudo coded in has been mek. 3. There are a number of things which have been illegal for the majority of games that icefrog simply hasn't coded out. Pooling took what, 5 years to be removed? | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
Anyways, bd'ing is "banned" in pubs since most players find it not fun. I think the point is that there are some heroes which can take down a building within a few seconds. Most pubbies can't react fast enough (glyph cd, tp is like 2 seconds and doesn't invul anymore?), or if you're like me and play -ar alot, don't have heroes that can stand up short of having 4-5 heroes which throws off any sort of push/attack you're currently doing. I personally have no problem with bd'ing, but I can see why it's discouraged - it's somewhat anti-pvp. I think 50-60 min mark for no bd'ing is fine for pubs. Battle.net DOTA probably has the worst player-base in terms of flaming that I've ever seen. When I used to host I called no bd'ing simply because of all the flaming and dropping people would do. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Ace, you cant do shit against a farmed hero backdooring a 140 hp tower. backdooring is simply not good for the entertainment and balance level of a game. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
Some heroes are just way to good at that, it changes the whole game in a *bad* way. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Amel
Canada14 Posts
the end. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
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nbtnbt5
232 Posts
simple as that | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On May 31 2009 08:27 nbtnbt5 wrote: tps>backdoor simple as that Not that easy, as many heroes they can have an entire rax dead/mostly dead in 3 seconds, and, just sending one hero vs a hero that strong normally means the 1 hero will die anyway, meaning multiple heroes have to port back, thus stopping a push/rosh/gank and overall making your team play way more defensively than you should. If your team is raping in team fights late game and is pushing lanes, why should it be that the opposing team can turn around and back door with a clinkz or gondar and win because they cant win team fights. That is absolutely retarded to think that because the team is winning and has all lanes pushed that the opposing team is magically allowed to bd for mega creeps to turn the game around. to simply say tps > backdoor means you have never played against people who can farm well because i can tell you raxes dont last long vs a farmed hero that backdoors well. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On May 31 2009 08:34 Alventenie wrote: If your team is raping in team fights late game and is pushing lanes, why should it be that the opposing team can turn around and back door with a clinkz or gondar and win because they cant win team fights. That is absolutely retarded to think that because the team is winning and has all lanes pushed that the opposing team is magically allowed to bd for mega creeps to turn the game around. to be fair it's just another tactic. take guildwars for instance, it is actually a VERY good comparison in this case. the standard play is 8v8 gvg (im talking before expansions, dunno what shit came after), you go to middle (lanes), fight over flag (creeps, hk's), get morale (items) if you can keep flag, push into their base, kill npcs (towers) and finally kill guild lord (rax/tree) to win the game. see how great this compares to a standard dota game? and for a while, that's how this was. then Te (or maybe someone else did it first) came around with split teams, where they'd have some of their guys running around the back sniping the NPC bodyguards (aka towers) so that they can kill the guild lord (aka rax/tree) without having to fight the other team in 8v8 and win the game. aka exact same as backdoor, this comparison turned out better than i thought. what did the gw community do? whine? ban this? no of course, that would've been fucking retarded (like dota), they adapted instead and the gameplay got deeper. dota's just fairly bad that's all. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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