DotA [Backdoor]

On May 29 2007 08:48 Tadzio00 wrote:
Wow, so many different views on what backdooring is. Back when I played, admittedly a year or two ago, backdooring in DOTA involved the act of bypassing one or more defensive towers to attack the mains. So instead of killing the two enemy towers in your lane, you'd be "bypassing" if you snuck past them and destroyed buildings that were responsible for opponent creep spawns. In DOTA ROC, the Tauren was particularly good at this because of his earthquake spell, which could snipe buildings outside of any tower attack range (and, incidently, his own visual range) and do considerable damage. But pretty much any hero could do it eventually, if not with their epic skill then with super gear and move speed.

Edit: The type of "backdooring" imRadu describes where you destroy the first tower in your lane without any creeps near you-- assuming it's indeed banned now (I wouldn't doubt it, except it seems super over-restrictive, like playing BW with a no rush rule... in leagues!)-- was not only legal when I played, but common. It was a great way to make some fast gold.

On May 29 2007 12:26 Judicator wrote:
No it shouldn't be banned, in TDA backdooring is legal after the game has extended for one hour which is more than reason enough to start backdooring because every hero (if competent) would be farmed at that point.

By the way, I don't consider taking down a red tower (in deny health) backdooring, you have the opportunity to deny it, just as I have the chance to farm it.

And backdooring isn't easily countered, if their carry hero gets big (TB/SFiend) it really puts a damper on your pushes. (After around 40-50 min mark with decent teams). Basically ack1027 summarized the concept of BD, don't do it unless you have no way of winning or if the game has dragged on longer than it should.

You cannot use any form of teleport (furion skill, ignis fatuus, or Boots of Travel) to enter an enemy base UNLESS your creeps are already present in the base. So, for example, teleporting with Boots of Travel onto an ignis fatuus that runs in to backdoor is illegal. Another example is having your teamates backdoor and enter an enemy base and then teleport to your teamates as Furion. This is illegal because your creep wave is not present.

On May 29 2007 19:20 ToT)BrAiN( wrote:
just buy a tp scroll ...

On May 30 2007 03:32 Empyrean wrote:
Yisun, Furion can't teleport into the other base. There's a trigger.

On May 30 2007 07:48 Equinox_kr wrote:
Ehh, I played a pub game yesterday with Centaur Warchief and I ended up backdooring the hell out of the other team (since it technically IS allowed) and the other team were total fags, as Travis said.

Some examples:
"f u stop backdooring noob"
"play vs my team they'll pwn you"

On May 30 2007 15:38 a-game wrote:

what the hell lol, if your knowingly doing something that pubs consider bad etiquette it's just like doing something to deliberately piss tl.net off, you're going to get flamed all the way to Gliese 581c (whether you broke a "rule" or not)

you can't knowingly rub someone the wrong way then label them a fag for reacting.

p.s. look at it this way, progaming allows hold lurker yet WCG does not.

in dota, apparently most leagues allow BD'ing, but pubs generally do not.

On May 29 2007 11:33 Ack1027 wrote:
This is the way I see it and I play in CAL league.

Pubs, the general consensus is that you shouldn't backdoor. Idk why it happened this way, probably because most people are noobs and have no idea how to stop a competent backdoor attempt. It's looked down upon and laughed at if you do it in a pub and if you win with it people call you pussy and other bs like that. However, there is no written rule anywhere stating that backdoor is illegal. Also, if you look at the game info during a game of dota in the TDA rules it says backdooring IS indeed legal.

CAL league backdooring is legal simply because if you're in a league you should know how to defend a backdoor, it is kinda comparable to a cheese strat or an all out attempt because if you don't have aegis and you try to do that shit you will get counter-pushed. And it's not like only one side has the availability to backdoor.

Nowadays backdooring applies to any kind of tower excluding the very first towers because in order to attack the inner or base towers/buildings you have to destroy the previous towers.

Backdooring is fine in my book, usually in inhouses 5v5 with friends we don't backdoor unless we absolutely have no other way of winning. It's more of an etiquette thing than anything else.

On May 30 2007 10:22 azndsh wrote:
It's technically legal but considered really bad etiquette and cheap in public games... kinda like, say, allied mine. Nobody prevents you from using allied mine on bnet but using it to win is frowned upon.

On May 31 2007 00:26 lololol wrote:
It's just a flawed game mechanic, if we have to compare it to SC, the it's something like Terran being absolutely dominant at lower skill levels... they won't be banned in any tournament since they are fine with pros, but it would be bad mannered to use it in a low level game.

People play without backdooring, because it's lame and removes the fun of hero vs hero combat, it's you being an ass backdooring, not them complaining about you breaking a rule they had in the game.

On May 31 2007 00:41 OverTheUnder wrote:


I wasn't aware terran was dominant at lower skill levels.

Or are you just picking a random example?

On May 31 2007 04:26 ToT)BrAiN( wrote:
lol

On May 30 2007 23:39 ~OpZ~ wrote:


Yes...Very true

Too bad ass holes still will banlist your ass from pubs for bding, even when it isn't against the rules...nub hosts.

On May 31 2007 06:17 {ToT}Strafe wrote:


and you said I wasn't funny. keep conloltradicting yourself

On May 31 2007 09:45 KOFgokuon wrote:


wooo personal ban lists, those scare me a whole lot

On May 29 2009 11:29 IntoTheWow wrote:
Wow, this thread has 50 views and 13k views...

On May 29 2009 12:01 Kaneh wrote:
The best comparison is cheesing. It's a perfectly viable strat, noobs all say it's lame, but they lost and you won. Are you playing to win? or playing for some other reason? DoTA pubs all have made up rules in their heads, like '20min NR' in SC.

In leagues and competitive play, it's perfectly acceptable. There, everyone agrees that they'll use every means possible short of cheating to win. If a structure can be attacked, then it's perfectly acceptable to run to it and attack it at any time. All the 'exploitative' moves have been hard-coded to not work anymore. It's like cheese/allin in proleague or a tournament - a win's a win.

If you play to beat the other guys, then do it, just don't expect BNet pubbers to understand why you're not following their made up rules. Then again, if you play to win, why are you playing pub BNet games.

On May 29 2009 11:31 MYM.Testie wrote:


*head explosion*

On May 29 2009 12:06 Ace wrote:
How can you be powerful enough to backdoor safely and have it take 2-3 heroes to stop you?

Wouldn't that mean the other team let you free farm too much anyway so it technically WOULD NOT MATTER?

I still don't see how you can' t see a backdoor coming with good ward placement and a TP scroll to your tower. Explain this please?

On May 29 2009 12:07 IntoTheWow wrote:


Sorry meant replies

On May 29 2009 12:41 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
furion needs no help, just use the ultra spicy dc build imo

On May 29 2009 12:44 paper wrote:


DO ELABORATE<3

On May 29 2009 11:15 Alventenie wrote:
Its generally not accepted except in specific cases (such as outer towers being in deny range and the opposing team doesn't kill it, that's their own fault for not noticing)

On May 29 2009 12:02 Judicator wrote:
Back door is not a fair strategy because nothing else in the game forces the other team to suddenly change strategy/gameplay as quickly as backdooring. If you are powerful enough to back door safely, chances are its going to take 2-3 heroes to stop you effectively, as in actually keep you from killing what you intend to kill. To drag 2-3 heroes from one side of the map to the BD location is utterly ridiculous.

On May 29 2009 12:48 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:


ask mr.tastie, if he remembers

! better yet, ask awara, if he's still around, i pissed him off doing it one time

On May 29 2009 12:55 Ace wrote:
I dont see the problem. It would be kind of stupid for you to fight headfirst into their strategy. Sounds like they were sore losers to me.

On May 29 2009 13:00 KurtistheTurtle wrote:

But my OWN TEAM was getting on me. We had just had 2 previous team fights where we initiated and got all our stuns off and they still killed all 5 of us for 1 maybe 2 people. I was the one who explained the strategy and called the ganks the entire game up to that point, and everybody still called me noob at the end. I was the only person in that game thinking about the metagame.

I mean honestly...wtf? Are there any dota communities where I don't have to deal with this kind of retardation?

On May 29 2009 13:06 Ace wrote:
Just ignore it and keep raping. You had a team of whiners and unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it, unlike in BW where you'd just unally and rape his ass too.

So I bottled an illusion rune with mirana, and with aid of lothars and leap got right next to their rax undetected. I wiped it out, caused mega creeps and gg.
.

That right there means you went the wrong items. Mirana is a ganker that goes into a late game semi carry (who if you out farm your opponent like you describe, should be raping hardcore).

On May 29 2009 12:52 KurtistheTurtle wrote:

I've read in higher level dota play, TDA+, backdooring is allowed. Only in public games and some other lower level places is it not. It sounds to me like the public dota community figured out a way to outlaw dota cheesing.

>.>


So it's inconvenient. Icefrog made it so towers you hadn't gotten to yet are invulnerable. If he wanted to outlaw bd'ing, he'd implement the same kind of coding he has that doesn't let you attack rosh--but he didn't. If he does it in 6.6, I'll eat my words. Until then, I think teams should develop strategies and habits that take into account all possibilities that can occur with in the game, whether thats carrying tp scrolls/having some dedicated defenders.

F9 and look at the linked rules--bd'ing is allowed.

In my specific case, an -rd game, my team had chosen a majority of early-game heroes. Our strategy was to push as hard and as fast as we could early game because as soon as the 50 min mark hit we wouldn't be able to win team fights. The point of the game we were at was well past the 60 min mark, and we had pushed down every lane of theirs except one. We'd killed the tower already. So I bottled an illusion rune with mirana, and with aid of lothars and leap got right next to their rax undetected. I wiped it out, caused mega creeps and gg.

They were pushing bottom (their good rax were top) and had I stayed top to fight, I would have just died or fired an arrow or two that wouldn't really amount to anything. I also looked through their items and saw not a SINGLE one of them had a tp that didn't have BoT. They would have finished us with that push. Instead I took the last strategy that could result in a win and used it. If I had tried pushing top from where the creep waves were, I never would have made it in time.

On May 31 2009 08:27 nbtnbt5 wrote:
tps>backdoor

simple as that

On May 31 2009 08:34 Alventenie wrote:


If your team is raping in team fights late game and is pushing lanes, why should it be that the opposing team can turn around and back door with a clinkz or gondar and win because they cant win team fights. That is absolutely retarded to think that because the team is winning and has all lanes pushed that the opposing team is magically allowed to bd for mega creeps to turn the game around.

On May 31 2009 12:28 JeeJee wrote:


to be fair it's just another tactic. take guildwars for instance, it is actually a VERY good comparison in this case.
the standard play is 8v8 gvg (im talking before expansions, dunno what shit came after), you go to middle (lanes), fight over flag (creeps, hk's), get morale (items) if you can keep flag, push into their base, kill npcs (towers) and finally kill guild lord (rax/tree) to win the game. see how great this compares to a standard dota game?

and for a while, that's how this was. then Te (or maybe someone else did it first) came around with split teams, where they'd have some of their guys running around the back sniping the NPC bodyguards (aka towers) so that they can kill the guild lord (aka rax/tree) without having to fight the other team in 8v8 and win the game. aka exact same as backdoor, this comparison turned out better than i thought.

what did the gw community do? whine? ban this? no of course, that would've been fucking retarded (like dota), they adapted instead and the gameplay got deeper.

dota's just fairly bad that's all.

On May 31 2009 21:54 L wrote:

1)pretty certain WM developed it.

2)split builds were used to break apart immobile spike teams.

3)NPC =\= DotA Tower.

4)A better comparison would be a runner that could solo bodyguard/GL in 10 seconds, which you know would be fucked.

On June 01 2009 03:50 jodogohoo wrote:
"CLOSE THIS FUCKING THREAD, START DOTA, PRESS F9
???????????????
READ THE FUCKING RULES"
is what i want to say, but since i don't want to get b&, i'll help you out.
1. there is no such thing as backdoor, if someone complains, tell them they suck and spam the chat with something like... QQ MORE SENTINAL.
2. thats it.

On June 01 2009 03:56 JeeJee wrote:

lol =(
obviously there is such a thing as backdoor, what do you think this thread is about
also linking tda rules, classy.

also @ L, yeah there's few differences, but really, a lot of them are similar in gw as well. if you see they have a furion or like clinkz or some shit, you're aware of the possibility, similar to seeing a necro-heavy build. If you're pushing all their lanes and winning team fights (the scenario alv presented) you have full map control and can see a bd coming (furion tp i suppose being the exception, but part of that is even hard-coded in dota to be forbidden anyway, you can't just tp into an enemy base as furion)

my whole point is that it was a tactic that was eventually phased out (iirc) because people became too good at raping the teams who try it (and also they stopped using builds that would get raped by it like e/mo spam or whatever). that's not to say it didn't dominate for a while, and it was annoying as fuck to play against. it made everyone better players though