EPTNo Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) - Page 15
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 19 2016 06:37 ZenithM wrote: As handwavy as this sounds, and while not excusing Hello Games in any way, what you're saying is also what I'm seeing (just roaming around NMS' subreddit, and watching my brother play). The people playing the game genuinely seem to enjoy it, acknowledge that the game has flaws, and that maybe it could have been cheaper. But nothing as strong as wanting to get refunds, let alone suing the devs (:D). I do think the people who didn't buy the game (like Djzapz and myself) have the right to voice concerns about this type of business practices in the video game industry. The fact is, I wanted to buy and play the game they said they would develop. I became wary after a few too many vague interviews showing the same gameplay footage (on different planets for good measure), so I'm not a disappointed buyer, fine. But this is not the first time a game doesn't hold up to its prerelease image, nor will it be the last. I actually spent quite a lot crowdfunding Star Citizen, which as we already discussed is headed for 10 times the fiasco NMS is :D. It does seem like good practices are being forgotten in the video game industry. Remember when devs released free demos of their games? Now they make us pre-order an unknown quantity for extra unknown perks (some pre-order bonuses are literally listed as "announced later" these days...). I know the solution is to wait for release, but meanwhile, enough customers are just throwing money at video game companies so that they feel justified making empty promises and cashing in on the hype. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion. But they are not sacrosanct. Especially when the opinion is that a company should go bankrupt and everyone should be out of a job who made the game. Which is, in my opinion, a deeply spiteful, petty and nasty view to hold. Hello Games likely will make just enough money to secure the ability to make another game later on. On August 19 2016 06:43 ZenithM wrote: I do think it's fine to be disappointed that a game I wanted to play didn't turn the way I wanted. Even if I didn't buy it, money isn't actually the problem here. Do you want Hello Games to be sued into the ground so they cannot make another game as an example to the rest of teh development community? What form of punishment would be sufficient? | ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Edit: And by "find money in another way", I just mean, make a better game and be more honest during pre-release. I'm not a complete hater. And the debate on pre-orders is still open, with or without Hello Games. Those will keep on coming because it works. But it's obviously not consumer-friendly. As TB would say, don't pre-order games. | ||
|
Warri
Germany3208 Posts
| ||
|
Klowney
Sweden277 Posts
| ||
|
Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
On August 19 2016 18:41 Klowney wrote: There should be a consequence of releasing a game with a ton of bugs and completely broken on pc. No. It's still your decision to buy it or not. Even on release day it was already pretty clear that the game was a massive flop. So I didn't buy it. If you pre-ordered, tough luck, hopefully you learn from your mistakes. Trying to sue a dev for releasing a game with bugs (every single game has bugs) or lying, is stupid. | ||
|
Kreb
4834 Posts
On August 19 2016 18:41 Klowney wrote: There should be a consequence of releasing a game with a ton of bugs and completely broken on pc. There are. You're seeing them right now. If you wanted the consequences to be even greater, dont preorder or buy until you're sure what you're getting. | ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
TLDR, don't preorder unless you really know what you are doing. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11825 Posts
| ||
|
FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On August 19 2016 06:45 Plansix wrote: Everyone has a right to voice their opinion. But they are not sacrosanct. Especially when the opinion is that a company should go bankrupt and everyone should be out of a job who made the game. Which is, in my opinion, a deeply spiteful, petty and nasty view to hold. Hello Games likely will make just enough money to secure the ability to make another game later on. Do you want Hello Games to be sued into the ground so they cannot make another game as an example to the rest of teh development community? What form of punishment would be sufficient? you can't straight up lie about your game to your customers and get away with it. if you see the reddit thread, their PR guy was just going around straight up lying about various game features being in existence when they straight up were not , and the promotional videos of the game were straight up showing things that don't actually happen in the game (from what i read) if a washermachine goes on the TV commercial showing it has a bunch of features, and the marketing guy is standing there saying you can do X and X with it, and it turns out when people buy the washermachine these things don't actually exist, then what the fuck do you call that? | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 19 2016 23:01 FFGenerations wrote: you can't straight up lie about your game to your customers and get away with it. if you see the reddit thread, their PR guy was just going around straight up lying about various game features being in existence when they straight up were not , and the promotional videos of the game were straight up showing things that don't actually happen in the game (from what i read) if a washermachine goes on the TV commercial showing it has a bunch of features, and the marketing guy is standing there saying you can do X and X with it, and it turns out when people buy the washermachine these things don't actually exist, then what the fuck do you call that? Their reputation is already damaged and it will follow them to whatever game they make next. Once again, what do you want beyond that? | ||
|
FFGenerations
7088 Posts
did you think they didn't KNOW? did you think they just thought, "oh we can just lie about things and OH SHIT NO OUR REPUTATION GOT DAMAGED  OMG IM SO SOWWY MA REPUTATION I NEVER KNEWWWWW "NO!! there's a system in place for punishing companies that lie about their product for a reason!!! its so they don't fucking do it!!!!!!!!!!! not so "they can do it so long as they accept that they will get a bad rep for doing so " you know how business works don't you? its called risk VS reward. they risk developing X product to gain X reward. they can also risk their reputation to gain X reward. in the case of NMS they risked bad post-release reviews for massive pre-release sales. AND BOY DID THEY STRIKE GOLD!!! and u know what happens then? it sends a signal to a WHOLE lot of people that holy shit this "lie about pre-release gameplay shit really WORKS!" maybe they throw in a few "extra features" here and there to ride them into pre-order valley. maybe not enough to get quite as much backlash as NMS did. but hey, maybe we just go all the way and cash out. there's nothing stopping us (apart from some pesky teens on the interweb) after all | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
FFGenerations
7088 Posts
risking your reputation is not a punishment . the company MADE that DECISION to risk their reputation. they EMBRACED it. they sat down and they thought , "is it more beneficial for us to lie to our consumer or to not lie to them?" and they decided "yes indeed, the more we lie, the more we can benefit". and that is why companies get massive fucking fines from governing bodies if they lie about their products. and they don't just get a tutting finger and people saying "oh damn, well their reputation is busted now, i hope it was worth it." because it fucking was | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
You are entitled to believe that, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11825 Posts
The solution from a consumer perspective is simple. Don't buy stuff before launch. Make sure that you know what you get for your money. You can't really change other peoples consumer behaviour, but if they get burned often enough, they might change, too. You can also try to sue Hello Games, but that is going to be a very expensive lawsuit that you are probably not willing to pay for. The same is true for everyone else. You want other people to start a lawsuit because you are angry. Why do you expect them to be willing to pay for something that you are not willing to pay for? Basically, it sucks, but consumers are doing this to themselves. Stop buying stuff before you know what it is. Change your own behaviour. Buy good games when you know that they are good, reward companies that make good games with your money. Don't try to change everyone else, try to do the best yourself. That is probably good advice in life in general. | ||
|
Duka08
3391 Posts
On August 19 2016 18:09 Warri wrote: Are you people seriously not grasping the connection between buying the game and liking it and not buying the game because you dislike it in the year 2016 with platforms like youtube and twitch? Do i have to feed Sean Murray 60$ to tell you i didnt like the dogshit i got in return? Like how can you even say with a straight face "the people who dislike the game didnt even buy it". Of fucking course i wont buy it if i know i wont like it. It's not a fucking blackbox. There's a difference between checking out the reviews/videos and deciding it's not for you, which people do all the time, and checking out reviews/videos and joining the crusade to take down a developer. His point was just that a lot of the people that are the most openly upset also didn't purchase the game and aren't directly affected. Others have made indirect arguments about being upset despite not purchasing because they had high hopes, or it encourages poor practices in the gaming industry, etc. It's just an interesting case study in that a good amount of the "we were promised X and got this" vitriol, warranted or not, is coming from people that didn't buy it. | ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On August 19 2016 23:58 Plansix wrote: But I don’t agree with the conclusion that they indented to deceive people to make money. I think they over promised and didn’t make it. I believe they should have rolled by expectations and be clear about what their game was. But I don’t think they created this game with the intent to deceive people. You are entitled to believe that, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you. I wonder if you read the deleted reddit thread in which a guy basically tells, design team uses another game build basically includes promises(a few major ones) which couldn't each out to the game released a few months later. I wouldn't call it overpromising and having a smaller team, rather I'd call it deliberately lying. I am not mad or anything. This approach and the aftermath of the release may encourage other comps to fake hype their games, make promises that they never ever finish and still make a good sum of money. I believe it is relatively easy to rename the company and design team, get yourself backed by a big company, change the frontman and basically scam people. If someone enjoys the game good for him, many people feel scammed. I wonder refund rates ever send any warning to the publisher or the design team. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 20 2016 00:27 Laserist wrote: I wonder if you read the deleted reddit thread in which a guy basically tells, design team uses another game build basically includes promises(a few major ones) which couldn't each out to the game released a few months later. I wouldn't call it overpromising and having a smaller team, rather I'd call it deliberately lying. I am not mad or anything. This approach and the aftermath of the release may encourage other comps to fake hype their games, make promises that they never ever finish and still make a good sum of money. I believe it is relatively easy to rename the company and design team, get yourself backed by a big company, change the frontman and basically scam people. If someone enjoys the game good for him, many people feel scammed. I wonder refund rates ever send any warning to the publisher or the design team. I did read that thread and I agree that they talked about a bunch of features that never made it into the final game. From my understanding following the development is that they wanted a lot of those features to be in the game, but optimization of the game to make it run on anything took way longer than expected and cut into production. They planned poorly. Most games, like Titan Fall or Dragon age come to use as a feature locked state. They know what will be in the game and never remove things. Hello Games biggest mistake was talking about the game before they locked in what was possible. That was a huge mistake on their part and lead to a lot of people getting their hopes up. They should have told people all the features were not going to be in the game. They should have been clear. But people forget that they always have the option to not own the game day one and wait to see if it delivers on the hype. | ||
|
JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On August 20 2016 00:33 Plansix wrote: I did read that thread and I agree that they talked about a bunch of features that never made it into the final game. From my understanding following the development is that they wanted a lot of those features to be in the game, but optimization of the game to make it run on anything took way longer than expected and cut into production. They planned poorly. Most games, like Titan Fall or Dragon age come to use as a feature locked state. They know what will be in the game and never remove things. Hello Games biggest mistake was talking about the game before they locked in what was possible. That was a huge mistake on their part and lead to a lot of people getting their hopes up. They should have told people all the features were not going to be in the game. They should have been clear. But people forget that they always have the option to not own the game day one and wait to see if it delivers on the hype. claiming "mistake" that's a great out. based on my experience building software full time for 7 years i'd say yapping about amazing new features is never a "mistake". the sales and marketing guys know exactly what they are doing. They also make sure they have plausible deniability. Many of these sales/marketing/PR guys are 50+ years old and they have more tricks up their sleeves than you can possibly imagine. These guys are so careful and calculated and are some of the best liars I've ever met. You should see these fuckers play Texas Hold'em. They'll take your money and have you believing its all luck. Many techies hate the "sales guys". I've learned a lot from these highly skilled liars. Part of living in a free world is that smart, calculated, careful fraud artists will always get away with their bullshit. People just have to live with it. Even murderers go free without proper evidence. All we're talking about here is a $60 video game. | ||
| ||
