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On May 26 2016 01:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2016 01:53 Plansix wrote:
But you see, the asteroid already has all the energy stored it in. It is in orbit and is moving. All you need to do is alter that orbit to meet the planet, which requires a lot less energy because there is no resistance and the distances in space are huge.
It has been talked to death, but you are right that the energy levels are huge.
The death star is really dumb. Super weapons in sci-fi should shoot from beyond the system they are in to destroy a planet. That is what would make them super.
Time is the enormous factor in 'just shift its orbit to collide with the planet'. I don't want to bomb them 3 years from now. I want them dead by tomorrow.
It would take about the same amount of time for the ship to travel to the planet and bomb it. The ship is in orbit too and it isn’t going to go that much faster than the asteroid unless it has some sort of magic space drive on it that allows it to ignore physics.
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I have a question: Is there a option to make aliances/confederations visable on the map? Having to switch between the diplomacy menu and the galaxyscreen ist really annoying
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No. Diplomacy mapmode is one of the requested features that should be added to the game at some point.
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On May 26 2016 02:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2016 01:57 Gorsameth wrote:On May 26 2016 01:53 Plansix wrote:
But you see, the asteroid already has all the energy stored it in. It is in orbit and is moving. All you need to do is alter that orbit to meet the planet, which requires a lot less energy because there is no resistance and the distances in space are huge.
It has been talked to death, but you are right that the energy levels are huge.
The death star is really dumb. Super weapons in sci-fi should shoot from beyond the system they are in to destroy a planet. That is what would make them super.
Time is the enormous factor in 'just shift its orbit to collide with the planet'. I don't want to bomb them 3 years from now. I want them dead by tomorrow. It would take about the same amount of time for the ship to travel to the planet and bomb it. The ship is in orbit too and it isn’t going to go that much faster than the asteroid unless it has some sort of magic space drive on it that allows it to ignore physics.
For an asteroid legitimately in orbit, sure. Like, I suppose moving Phobos to hit Mars wouldn't be inconceivable. But a lot of planets have nothing like that near them. Say you wanted to hit Earth... that would actually be quite a chore.
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On May 26 2016 03:23 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2016 02:17 Plansix wrote:On May 26 2016 01:57 Gorsameth wrote:On May 26 2016 01:53 Plansix wrote:
But you see, the asteroid already has all the energy stored it in. It is in orbit and is moving. All you need to do is alter that orbit to meet the planet, which requires a lot less energy because there is no resistance and the distances in space are huge.
It has been talked to death, but you are right that the energy levels are huge.
The death star is really dumb. Super weapons in sci-fi should shoot from beyond the system they are in to destroy a planet. That is what would make them super.
Time is the enormous factor in 'just shift its orbit to collide with the planet'. I don't want to bomb them 3 years from now. I want them dead by tomorrow. It would take about the same amount of time for the ship to travel to the planet and bomb it. The ship is in orbit too and it isn’t going to go that much faster than the asteroid unless it has some sort of magic space drive on it that allows it to ignore physics. For an asteroid legitimately in orbit, sure. Like, I suppose moving Phobos to hit Mars wouldn't be inconceivable. But a lot of planets have nothing like that near them. Say you wanted to hit Earth... that would actually be quite a chore.
All things orbit the sun at alarming speeds. Even a ship that is moving through space orbits the sun or a thing orbiting the sun. To bring something closer to the sun, you just need to slow it down to change the orbit. In the world where faster than light travel is possible, that task is trivial. We would have already developed that tech to create space station, since building them out of material on a planet would be really inefficient. You can't mine minerals from space if you can't move the asteroid around. Space is a weird place and orbital mechanics are hard to wrap our brains around.
Of course, this is startrek style sci-fi, so the tech is crazy and somewhat magic. Still, I want to have the option to destroy ecosystems with one big rock.
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On May 26 2016 03:23 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2016 02:17 Plansix wrote:On May 26 2016 01:57 Gorsameth wrote:On May 26 2016 01:53 Plansix wrote:
But you see, the asteroid already has all the energy stored it in. It is in orbit and is moving. All you need to do is alter that orbit to meet the planet, which requires a lot less energy because there is no resistance and the distances in space are huge.
It has been talked to death, but you are right that the energy levels are huge.
The death star is really dumb. Super weapons in sci-fi should shoot from beyond the system they are in to destroy a planet. That is what would make them super.
Time is the enormous factor in 'just shift its orbit to collide with the planet'. I don't want to bomb them 3 years from now. I want them dead by tomorrow. It would take about the same amount of time for the ship to travel to the planet and bomb it. The ship is in orbit too and it isn’t going to go that much faster than the asteroid unless it has some sort of magic space drive on it that allows it to ignore physics. For an asteroid legitimately in orbit, sure. Like, I suppose moving Phobos to hit Mars wouldn't be inconceivable. But a lot of planets have nothing like that near them. Say you wanted to hit Earth... that would actually be quite a chore.
Depends...
You want a hit now and here? Have fun... The amount of energy you would need to alter some asteroids orbit for that is completely unrealistic. Would be better spend by just bringing your spaceship over here and dropping some bombs with a similar energy load.
But if you just want to hit Earth.... and don't care if it takes a couple of years... It can be done with indeed little energy investment, by just having minor adjustments on the course of some nearly intercepting asteroids.
But Plansix is just hopping from one idea to the other back and forth, as it fits his argument better. Either you have a huge energy investment (and not at all comparable to moving a spaceship over) to get your desired effect, or you do it with a low investment, but than it takes ages for the asteroid to hit its target.
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All this just because I want to raze a planet at a click of a button.
No I don't want to wait 3 in game years to collateral damage a pop, nor do I want a complicated nonsensical game mechanic to do the same thing only that I have to be lucky enough to be in an appropriate system and wait 3 years to guard an asteroid.
It's quite simple. The energy and expertise expenditure to change the course of an asteroid, assuming that said system do have asteroids is vastly above the abilty of any warship to bombard the planet underneath it's own weapons in-universe. There is no reason for a cumbersome game mechanic that diverting an asteriod would entail.
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I don’t want to play Kerbel in this game, so I don’t’ know why you keep claiming I do. I just want dooms day tech to level planets, including the one where you drop an rock on them. I want to fly to a system, press a button and have a countdown say “in for months, this planet is ruined by this rock”. People keep saying it would be inefficient or take a lot of energy, like they would be towing the asteroid like a car. But that isn’t really how shit in space moves and I am just pointing that out.
And any system with planets would have asteroids of sufficient size. Asteroids are the byproduct of planets forming. And the tech to move large bodies in space with low energy cost would be developed long before FTL. The resources in space are the only reason to go up there.
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On May 26 2016 05:08 Plansix wrote:
I don’t want to play Kerbel in this game, so I don’t’ know why you keep claiming I do. I just want dooms day tech to level planets, including the one where you drop an rock on them. I want to fly to a system, press a button and have a countdown say “in for months, this planet is ruined by this rock”. People keep saying it would be inefficient or take a lot of energy, like they would be towing the asteroid like a car. But that isn’t really how shit in space moves and I am just pointing that out.
And any system with planets would have asteroids of sufficient size. Asteroids are the byproduct of planets forming. And the tech to move large bodies in space with low energy cost would be developed long before FTL. The resources in space are the only reason to go up there.
I agree with you for humanoid and most other types of races in Stellaris.
There are edge cases in Sci Fi that wouldn't care about Asteroid movement since they can't get to space at all but have the intelligence to develop physics and math to FTL level. A book series I read recently has a race develop on an Europa (moon of Jupiter) analogue where they have to develop the theories for the theories for the theories just to get material to make the first tool. A race like that could solve FTL before moving large masses since both are academic exercises with no real point to them. There are plenty of other scenarios involving a second intelligent race donating FTL but not large mass movement through an existing star gate system or reverse engineering a broken ship.
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1) The most elegant system you can think of is still rather inelegant. You still need to babysit a rock for an indeterminable amount of time to make sure the opposing empire simply doesn't fly in and destroy the asteriod with a ship. Or maybe the asteriod is fast and tough enough, in which case it would be a rather unenjoyable game mechanic when a single ship can fly round systems and start slinging purging asteriods in every system and you have to play hunt the asteriods in addition to the hunt the fleet game that stellaris is already. You might as well allow purposeful bombardment, which would be a better game mechanic to kill pops and buildings.
2) It IS inefficient. If you can travel FTL and bombard a planet, why would you do things the hard, slow way and not just...bombard the planet? You already have the missile/energy/projectile weapons on your spaceship. You are already in orbit. Why expend unneccessary delta-V to alter the course of an asteriod? And at the cost of more time
3) It creates a immersion breaking disreptancy between hard and soft sci-fi. A hard sci-fi asteriod bombardment is totally at odds with the soft sci-fi that Stellaris is. You can make it a high tech level, which destroys your argument that it is low energy, or you can make it a low tech option, which would make for poor gameplay anyhow and raises uncomfortable discreptancies.
4)No one is arguing that the tech to move large bodies in space wouldn't exist. The problem is why would warships have the machinery to do so? To use an analogy, modern warships have the abilty to move large masses (themselves) across vast bodies of water and to propel shells or missiles vast distance with resonable accuracy at high speeds and damage. What they don't have is the ability to have appropriate spare engines and control systems lying around in their cargo bays (or equivalent) to move flotsam around, nor the people on board with the neccesary expertise on board to do so even if they desired to do so.
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4 months in the game isn’t that long and of course you would defend your planet killing asteroid with your space fleet. You are there to kill planets and this is how you get that shit done forever. And it would be WAY more effective that bombarding. This is ecosystem destroying levels of scorched earth we are talking about. And of course at some point it would be outdated by tech. But dropping big rocks on planets is a time honored tradition of both hard and soft sci-fi.
Dooms day weapons that level planets are not interesting if you can just do it with the press of a button, instantly. Even the death star had a countdown, custom fit to the pace of the movie. Make the dooms day weapons of all flavors have count downs, because it lets people respond and leads to great moments in games.
I would also settle for a gravity weapon that snaps the moon in half, crippling the economy of the planet for 100 years while they try to clean it up. Because I read Seven Eves and I want to ruin a moon.
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you know whats immersion breaking? having weapons that fire 60 units (like... a fifth of the solar system, complete guess) at small moving targets with reasonable accuracy but having to get into orbit to hit a planet.
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On May 26 2016 12:00 ticklishmusic wrote:
you know whats immersion breaking? having weapons that fire 60 units (like... a fifth of the solar system, complete guess) at small moving targets with reasonable accuracy but having to get into orbit to hit a planet.
That is immersion breaking for you? Not the fact that the later ships have like half the size of the sun? Or does any other proportion in this game is completely "wrong"?
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France7248 Posts
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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Thanks, time to undust it 
PS: Did they implement more midgame events like they said at launch ? can't find it in the patchnotes ?_?
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some pretty big changes, the open border bit is interesting
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On June 29 2016 00:30 Talaris wrote:Thanks, time to undust it PS: Did they implement more midgame events like they said at launch ? can't find it in the patchnotes ?_?
in the banner in the forumpost it says something akin to diplomatic incidents etc. I guess those would be the events
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On June 29 2016 03:00 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 00:30 Talaris wrote:Thanks, time to undust it PS: Did they implement more midgame events like they said at launch ? can't find it in the patchnotes ?_? in the banner in the forumpost it says something akin to diplomatic incidents etc. I guess those would be the events
First long playtest:
Never had such a event, you still have the "downtime".
What's the biggest problem of the update is the fact, that the A.I. is seriously confused by the ability to wage war togeather with a empire that is not in an alliance. The A.I. tries to use this feature practically at every war they want to wage, but they often ask empires who are not interessted (A.I. - A.I. behaviour) or they dont give the player anything he wants/needs (ask for a large war and only wants to give "humilation" to the player instead of planets or gains).
If you (or a A.I.) nation says "veto no" to the request, it still takes 120 days till the request if off the table, often followed by the very same request again and again. This leads to stronger A.I. nations never attack their wanted target because other nations do not want to help them dismantel this small nation.
Even A.I. mods like enhanced A.I. (which was a really good A.I. mod in 1.1. and made the game great again) have problems with it.
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United Kingdom20293 Posts
Started playing recently. There are a ton of planets/populations that i'd like to burn to the ground but i don't seem to have the options for:
one planet that i colonized had some natives, i eventually let some of them work for me. Shortly afterwards they decided to rebel, shutting down their output and reducing the output of the rest of the planet by 40%, occasionally killing people and destroying things. They have like 4 out of 20 pop on the planet and are just ruining everything. I bought out their influence to 0% but it didn't do much, just a waste of a huge % of my energy credits
another empire was one that i took over because i couldn't figure out how to just kill everyone, i made the additional planets into a sector because it broke my economy immediately but all of them seemed to strike and not give me any money. Shortly after they rebelled and occupied all of the planets, declaring war on me and then winning a planet back when i didn't send a huge ground army fast enough
My government is fanatic militarist. How do i kill everyone and get this over with :D
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