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On March 22 2016 02:27 TheYango wrote:
You can just straight-up facetank the fort to death on anything below Lunatic regardless.
I dont think your looking at any of this from a new player's perspective though, you have a very jaded perception of the game. I don't think that the AI telling you to avoid it would lead people to go and facetank it anyway. they probably spent a while just wandering around having 0 idea what to do
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On March 22 2016 02:28 chocorush wrote:
I thought the point of that chapter was to show the player not to be like Hans.
Well the main "lesson" of the chapter is how good pair up is and being able to facetank the fort with +4 Def from Gunther pair-up is a pretty good example of it.
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You're kind of being unreasonable, since chapter 2 right before it shows you pretty much all you needed to figure out how dragon veins work.
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Gunter pair up in that level makes Avatar unkillable and you just clear the map anyway.
I think the game does plenty to ease new players into the game. Lunatic is for people that have played the game and have a route in mind. Playing it blind and then wondering why the game is punishing you because of mistakes isn't the games fault.
I mean even with non blind play throughs people have restarted Conquest Lunatic because of an endgame chapter and how insane some of the mechanics enemies get.
edit: @chocorush, they actually show you how to use dragon veins in prologue, chapter 1, and chapter 2. If people skip it that isn't really the games fault.
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Technically the player isn't the one activating them before Ch 2. so they don't really get the full gameplay implications till Ch 2.
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im not being unreasonable at all, its exactly why I do these sorts of runs first to test game design. Once you start getting immersed into the game and become hardcore you lose sight of these things and its impossible to comprehend. The dragon vein being off to the side and only being on that one spot is quite bad design, especially when the AI says it while on the northern bridge. At first you are tricked into looking around that bridge, then you probably try the broken bridge on the mid left side. Then you maybe eventually find that one random spot.
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Yeah, but they still explain what it does, so it shouldn't be that obscure of a reference when Gunter tells you to look for them.
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It's not random though...unless you play with a 1 square radius of vision around each character you have. You just have to look at the map from a wider perspective and use the information to plan your future movements, which is a basic skill you should develop anyways.
If you somehow needed even more information to know what you were looking for, when the game even explicitly tells you to look for a dragon vein, I don't really know what constitutes good game design for you.
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It takes less than 5 seconds to eyeball the entire map for Ch. 3. There is nothing hidden since there is no fog of war. Ch. 3's Dragon Veins were colored differently than the Veins in Chapters 1 and 2, though, so that could perhaps become a visual clarity issue, but it was entirely a non-issue for me.
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On March 22 2016 02:39 chocorush wrote:
It's not random though...unless you play with a 1 square radius of vision around each character you have. You just have to look at the map from a wider perspective and use the information to plan your future movements, which is a basic skill you should develop anyways.
If you somehow needed even more information to know what you were looking for, when the game even explicitly tells you to look for a dragon vein, I don't really know what constitutes good game design for you.
not stumbling around looking for something? its the same complaint people have about the new mario&luigi game, finding toads is very tedious. same concept here
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In general, I look at the entire map before I go through my own units.
I look for a few things, what units drop items, where are good attack points and where are the strongest enemy units I have to look out for.
Each of these is important because I want to have a general strategy to go by when attacking and if I don't plan ahead one of my units will perish because of a mistake. Even with this I have lost units on accident for stuff I didn't think through (like how units move through terrain and how the map looks like it has terrain but isn't actually woods). If you just throw units forward you aren't going to finish lunatic. Even with Birthright being the easiest Lunatic, you still are going to struggle without looking at where hardpoints of the map will be, or keeping your non combat units at safe distances.
edit: I dont think its stumbling around looking for it. There is a very straight forward progression with how the game handles it.
In the Prologue they talking about what they can do (Alter the maps terrain and Royals can activate it).
In Chapter 1 they talk about more that it can do (It can create new tiles for healing).
In Chapter 2 they directly point out that you as a Royal can activate it to see what it does (It clears debris off the map).
In Chapter 3 they start to make it so you are thinking about them without being told, so you are told to look for one, but not directly shown it.
As the game continues on they aren't going to tell you to look for Dragon Veins to help you, its just going to be a mechanic you should look for. I don't see how this is bad game design when they put them on almost every map and have been explaining them in every chapter.
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The AI says it at the beginning of the second turn regardless of where you are. The only way the player would be any significant distance over the bridge is if they had enough familiarity with pair-up from the previous game to squeeze the extra movement out of Gunther. Since they can't reach the 2 samurai on player phase anyway, it's more likely that a newer player who is testing pair-up for the first time would take the defensive position on the tree just to the left of the bridge (which is why it's there, even though it's completely unnecessary).
From that position, the southern bridge is the natural direction to look once Gunther mentions the fort is hard to break through, and the DV is immediately within view.
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On March 22 2016 02:42 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 02:39 chocorush wrote:
It's not random though...unless you play with a 1 square radius of vision around each character you have. You just have to look at the map from a wider perspective and use the information to plan your future movements, which is a basic skill you should develop anyways.
If you somehow needed even more information to know what you were looking for, when the game even explicitly tells you to look for a dragon vein, I don't really know what constitutes good game design for you. not stumbling around looking for something? its the same complaint people have about the new mario&luigi game, finding toads is very tedious. same concept here
That you can even deliberately choose to stumble around to find a dragon vein when you are given the freedom to just use the map and look for a shiny square in the middle seems like the game is handling the edge cases of human behavior pretty well. You seem pretty stubborn about not looking ahead, and the game is punishing you for it accordingly.
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I feel like im talking to homers of a sports team or something lol
not surprising as far as tl goes but still amusing
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Well, you came here to complain how Lunatic is punishing you for a blind playthrough about stuff the game has clearly explained.
I don't understand why you feel that the game should hand hold you through the toughest difficulty more than it does. Its Lunatic, not Normal, not Hard. If you wanted the game to pop up the actual guide every time it talks about something, it does that in Normal.
Saying the game on its hardest difficulty is not appealing to new players doesn't make sense, especially if you do not put in any effort of research before hand to handle the difficulty.
This isn't us defending the game in that its so easy and good, but the game does more then sufficient compared to previous iterations of Fire Emblems with new mechanics.
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The guide also pops up on Lunatic if you turn it on I think, it's one of the menu options.
On March 22 2016 02:55 Alventenie wrote:
This isn't us defending the game in that its so easy and good, but the game does more then sufficient compared to previous iterations of Fire Emblems with new mechanics.
Well also in Fates' case, the added complexity is almost all conceptual and not numerical.
Variable weapon rank stat bonuses/weapon triangle advantage is still the most tedious thing to me, but at this point it's probably here to stay. Blame Shadow Dragon for that.
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On March 22 2016 02:55 Alventenie wrote:
Well, you came here to complain how Lunatic is punishing you for a blind playthrough about stuff the game has clearly explained.
I don't understand why you feel that the game should hand hold you through the toughest difficulty more than it does. Its Lunatic, not Normal, not Hard. If you wanted the game to pop up the actual guide every time it talks about something, it does that in Normal.
Saying the game on its hardest difficulty is not appealing to new players doesn't make sense, especially if you do not put in any effort of research before hand to handle the difficulty.
This isn't us defending the game in that its so easy and good, but the game does more then sufficient compared to previous iterations of Fire Emblems with new mechanics.
I don't recall complaining about that. but I can see why a homer would need to make up things to not sound like a borderline zealot.
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On March 22 2016 00:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
so I finally got this game and started playing birthright so I could download my conquest code.
How do you guys have the patience to restart when you lose characters early? The weaker people like the maid/healer/songstress literally got one shot whenever the AI felt like it. Seemed like everyone had a 2 space attack so you couldnt even hold choke points. The boss in chapter 7 simply javelin'd like 2-3 of them and one shotted them with his massive range.
so yea im at chapter 8 now and I think i have like kaze and the sky knight left, the rest died. was there anyone good you get early? because otherwise im not doing it again
On March 22 2016 01:46 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 01:41 Alventenie wrote:
If you press the X button it can show the enemy attack range as well. If you are leaving units on pink squares then they can be attacked by the enemy. This can help out with a lot of the random times where a unit comes out of no where to kill your Azura/Sakura.
edit: I also should state that you shouldn't overly use your higher level units. You get degenerative exp as you have higher level units killing low level units (a kill might get you less than 10 exp, sometimes only 2 or 4). If this is happening you might want to try to level up a few more units than just the avatar. Have a core of 4-5 people during the mid game is much more reasonable than just your avatar. it didnt feel possible on lunatic. letting anyone besides avatar get hit was basically instant death
On March 22 2016 01:48 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 01:28 chocorush wrote:
You lost Azura? That's like an instant restart for me. It sounds like you're not playing very carefully and ending turns with your weak units in range of enemies that can kill them. the main problem was I had zero idea that the boss would come in with a javelin and a billion range out of nowhere since its my first play through. seemed early to have such a strong unit to have to play against
Those are 3 of your 4 first posts in the thread, stating you had no idea/it didnt feel possible on lunatic. Also a later post where you said the game design isn't good enough to show you properly how to handle chapter 3.
I'm not making anything up, but if you insist that Lunatic should be easy, I would recommend Hard as a first playthrough.
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I'm sorry, I was an ass. But from my perspective, everything you have complained about so far was a result of either not examining the map, or not examining what enemy units can do to you, in a tactical RPG on it's highest difficulty setting.
That you are blaming your difficulty finding dragon veins on game design when the game more or less forces you to use the map screen to do anything, including finding shiny squares that you can click on in the map seems to be a direct result of you not playing the game as intended (looking at the map) and is kind of silly.
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On March 22 2016 03:01 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 00:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
so I finally got this game and started playing birthright so I could download my conquest code.
How do you guys have the patience to restart when you lose characters early? The weaker people like the maid/healer/songstress literally got one shot whenever the AI felt like it. Seemed like everyone had a 2 space attack so you couldnt even hold choke points. The boss in chapter 7 simply javelin'd like 2-3 of them and one shotted them with his massive range.
so yea im at chapter 8 now and I think i have like kaze and the sky knight left, the rest died. was there anyone good you get early? because otherwise im not doing it again Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 01:46 VayneAuthority wrote:On March 22 2016 01:41 Alventenie wrote:
If you press the X button it can show the enemy attack range as well. If you are leaving units on pink squares then they can be attacked by the enemy. This can help out with a lot of the random times where a unit comes out of no where to kill your Azura/Sakura.
edit: I also should state that you shouldn't overly use your higher level units. You get degenerative exp as you have higher level units killing low level units (a kill might get you less than 10 exp, sometimes only 2 or 4). If this is happening you might want to try to level up a few more units than just the avatar. Have a core of 4-5 people during the mid game is much more reasonable than just your avatar. it didnt feel possible on lunatic. letting anyone besides avatar get hit was basically instant death Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 01:48 VayneAuthority wrote:On March 22 2016 01:28 chocorush wrote:
You lost Azura? That's like an instant restart for me. It sounds like you're not playing very carefully and ending turns with your weak units in range of enemies that can kill them. the main problem was I had zero idea that the boss would come in with a javelin and a billion range out of nowhere since its my first play through. seemed early to have such a strong unit to have to play against Those are 3 of your 4 first posts in the thread, stating you had no idea/it didnt feel possible on lunatic. Also a later post where you said the game design isn't good enough to show you properly how to handle chapter 3. I'm not making anything up, but if you insist that Lunatic should be easy, I would recommend Hard as a first playthrough.
my bad interrupted your circlejerk, i forgot anything not praising the game completely is complaining and whining. Please proceed
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EPT
