Hoe Lee Shitt are Skaven fun to play. I started up a Queek campaign after miserably failing at Skrolk's 5x over and I'm having a blast. I'm kinda pissed and tired that I have to play every fight manually since their auto-resolve is AIDS incarnate, but on the other hand, I've had orks, dorfs and Qroq-Gar attack me based solely on their auto-resolve win probably, whom I promptly smashed myself in manual engagements.
I've read some guides online and watched YT videos on how to win with Skaven but half the advice was erroneous at best? People said to use skavenslaves as frontline since they don't cost any initial money compared to clanrats. I found that skavenslaves break the line waaaay too quickly and don't give my rat ogres enough time to hammer the enemy from the back. Clanrats, on the other hand, do break, but later and do hold the line better. Someone also posted that Plagueclaw catas are better than warp lightning cannons, which I found to be just untrue? WLCs performed better for me on the field and marginally better during sieges as well. Haven't tried doom wheels quite yet so I am reserving judgment. One guy said to rush rat ogres with caping my 1st settlement and upgrading it to tier 3. This was good advice. Although it put me in food shortage, rat ogres gave me the necessary leverage to smash opposing armies.
Currently i'm on turn 24 and have 1 full province (2 cities) and a ragtag 3 tier 1 cities that I just capture/recapture from nekrons, dwarfs and kroq-gar. My army composition is 3 warp-lightning cannons, 6 rat ogres, queek, and as many clanrats as I can fit.
This campaign actually taught me the right way to use fodder and valuable troops to anvil and hammer enemies in. You don't really feel it when playing as orks or dwarves yourself because even their basic units perform OK. Not the case with skaven. It is essential to bog down the enemy with cheap clanrats and smash with expensive(r) units from the back. Also these types of half fodder half usable unit armies are a far cry from the fully elite stacks that I usually prefer to field with other races .
Anyone have any other advice for me? Army comps, any units I should check out? Other tactics I should use?
I haven't played for a couple months, but it used to be that both plagueclaw catapults and warplightning cannons were way too good. 3 of each and a trash all melee infatry line (depending on what I could afford) would decimate everything (just put the cannons on the cavalry and the catapults on the infantry). The only thing that game me pause were wood elves mainly because of how powerful their archers are.
This was before they changed the AI response to getting shot by artilery, so take this with a grain of salt.
This is what I need for this game. More random factions and conflicts that can come from any angle. And maybe a more robust end game, because man that thing starts to drag after a while.
The biggest change, in my opinion, is the fact that you will finally have an alternative to auto-resolving sea battles. You can fight it manually now on an island (or on a Black Ark).
Another pretty good Everchosen tournament, this time featuring the new Vampire Coast faction. I suggest watching the matches, much less the banter of the casters, but it looks really cool. I admit I was sceptical when they said pirates, but the units look nice and most important of all different from the normal Vampire Counts faction :D
On October 23 2018 01:55 Latham wrote: Another pretty good Everchosen tournament, this time featuring the new Vampire Coast faction. I suggest watching the matches, much less the banter of the casters, but it looks really cool. I admit I was sceptical when they said pirates, but the units look nice and most important of all different from the normal Vampire Counts faction :D
Apparently the Vampire Counts are getting a huge rework as part of this patch. Goddamn, that faction has had a ton of love already. Gimme my Empire rework! What I'd like to see the Empire get is an elite gunpowder unit that can actually hold its own in melee combat (kinda like the Nuln Ironsides in SFO, but not so ridiculously OP).
On October 27 2018 00:31 xDaunt wrote: Apparently the Vampire Counts are getting a huge rework as part of this patch. Goddamn, that faction has had a ton of love already. Gimme my Empire rework! What I'd like to see the Empire get is an elite gunpowder unit that can actually hold its own in melee combat (kinda like the Nuln Ironsides in SFO, but not so ridiculously OP).
Empire and Greenskins both need reworks.
Empire doesn't need any new army mechanics they already have one of the best and most diverse army rosters in the game especially if you have the DLC, but they could really use some more interesting campaign mechanics.
Greenskins need a rework to the Waagh! mechanic as well as probably some additional unit types. Personally I think they could also benefit from a weapon looting (opposite of the Dwarf crafting obv) and a disloyalty mechanic like what Dark Elves have. All of these would fit very well thematically, and would be fun additions.
On October 27 2018 00:31 xDaunt wrote: Apparently the Vampire Counts are getting a huge rework as part of this patch. Goddamn, that faction has had a ton of love already. Gimme my Empire rework! What I'd like to see the Empire get is an elite gunpowder unit that can actually hold its own in melee combat (kinda like the Nuln Ironsides in SFO, but not so ridiculously OP).
Empire and Greenskins both need reworks.
Empire doesn't need any new army mechanics they already have one of the best and most diverse army rosters in the game especially if you have the DLC, but they could really use some more interesting campaign mechanics.
Greenskins need a rework to the Waagh! mechanic as well as probably some additional unit types. Personally I think they could also benefit from a weapon looting (opposite of the Dwarf crafting obv) and a disloyalty mechanic like what Dark Elves have. All of these would fit very well thematically, and would be fun additions.
Don't Greenskins have fightiness as a disloyalty mechanic already?
Did they ever improve the 1v1 ladder? Or is it still turtling/running away a lot?
Yeah new expansion is looking pretty good, can't wait for the VC reworks and Faction unlocker compatible sea battles.
On August 24 2018 16:50 Latham wrote: Hoe Lee Shitt are Skaven fun to play. I started up a Queek campaign after miserably failing at Skrolk's 5x over and I'm having a blast. I'm kinda pissed and tired that I have to play every fight manually since their auto-resolve is AIDS incarnate, but on the other hand, I've had orks, dorfs and Qroq-Gar attack me based solely on their auto-resolve win probably, whom I promptly smashed myself in manual engagements.
I've read some guides online and watched YT videos on how to win with Skaven but half the advice was erroneous at best? People said to use skavenslaves as frontline since they don't cost any initial money compared to clanrats. I found that skavenslaves break the line waaaay too quickly and don't give my rat ogres enough time to hammer the enemy from the back. Clanrats, on the other hand, do break, but later and do hold the line better. Someone also posted that Plagueclaw catas are better than warp lightning cannons, which I found to be just untrue? WLCs performed better for me on the field and marginally better during sieges as well. Haven't tried doom wheels quite yet so I am reserving judgment. One guy said to rush rat ogres with caping my 1st settlement and upgrading it to tier 3. This was good advice. Although it put me in food shortage, rat ogres gave me the necessary leverage to smash opposing armies.
Currently i'm on turn 24 and have 1 full province (2 cities) and a ragtag 3 tier 1 cities that I just capture/recapture from nekrons, dwarfs and kroq-gar. My army composition is 3 warp-lightning cannons, 6 rat ogres, queek, and as many clanrats as I can fit.
This campaign actually taught me the right way to use fodder and valuable troops to anvil and hammer enemies in. You don't really feel it when playing as orks or dwarves yourself because even their basic units perform OK. Not the case with skaven. It is essential to bog down the enemy with cheap clanrats and smash with expensive(r) units from the back. Also these types of half fodder half usable unit armies are a far cry from the fully elite stacks that I usually prefer to field with other races .
Anyone have any other advice for me? Army comps, any units I should check out? Other tactics I should use?
Had to restart my Skrolk campaign a bunch of times as well. Skaven are a blast though and alongside TK the fac that's the best designed imo.
The key to using their large trash armies is oblique order. I went two trash armies asap, bound enemies down with single stacks and then used to 2v1 or 3v1 (2v1 full surround only ties against Saurus) the flanks.
Against decent troops I recommend using slaves as the first line and then clanrats/heavy line behind them. So the slaves take the initial charge and then get pulled back if they die too fast/are breaking. It's okay if slaves rout, they'll recover and can then take some more damage for other units. I fought Lizards 2v1 most of the time, so my armies were usually like 5-7 slaves, 8 clans, 3-4 slings. Not powerful, but cheap and efficient. Globadiers are a bit tricky, but can wreck faces. But tbf almost all their units are fun to use.
My main issue with Skaven is that it feels like mass artillery is too central to make a stack strong enough to face other stacks one-on-one (or one-on-two / three). Ideally, I'd be able to have 10 squads of slaves and the rest as quality, but upkeep for additional armies chokes t hat idea out so fast that just getting 8 stormvermin, 2 plague monk with poison censers, 2 catapults, 2 warp lightning cannons, some poison wind globadiers / gutter runners / death runners / abomination in a single stack is so much better against everything.
It's really sad. The spawn clanrat power is really cool and in line with the feel of Skaven, but i'd find it a lot more lore friendly if it instead allowed for X "free" skavenslaves units at the start of battle deployment to really nail that "overwhelming horde"-feel.
You need more artillery. Six pieces at minimum (either 3-3 or 4 warp cannons and 2 catapults). Globadiers are good if you have a single entity unit to tank a large blob of infantry (hellpit or a lord). Stormvermin are good tanks and halberds are good antilarge.
Edit: plague priests are a must in each army too. They are nuts once on the Bell mount.
On October 27 2018 00:31 xDaunt wrote: Apparently the Vampire Counts are getting a huge rework as part of this patch. Goddamn, that faction has had a ton of love already. Gimme my Empire rework! What I'd like to see the Empire get is an elite gunpowder unit that can actually hold its own in melee combat (kinda like the Nuln Ironsides in SFO, but not so ridiculously OP).
Empire and Greenskins both need reworks.
Empire doesn't need any new army mechanics they already have one of the best and most diverse army rosters in the game especially if you have the DLC, but they could really use some more interesting campaign mechanics.
Greenskins need a rework to the Waagh! mechanic as well as probably some additional unit types. Personally I think they could also benefit from a weapon looting (opposite of the Dwarf crafting obv) and a disloyalty mechanic like what Dark Elves have. All of these would fit very well thematically, and would be fun additions.
Don't Greenskins have fightiness as a disloyalty mechanic already?
Did they ever improve the 1v1 ladder? Or is it still turtling/running away a lot?
Nah Fightiness is just a lame attrition mechanic that only forces you to keep fighting with armies.
You can keep that sure, but I want there to also be a loyalty mechanic if Warbosses get too powerful where they think they can challenge whoever your Legendary Lord is.
Make it a double whammy, because THAT is Greenskin,.
As a compensation. Make the Waagh's controllable. I think that's a worthwhile trade off.
On August 24 2018 16:50 Latham wrote: Hoe Lee Shitt are Skaven fun to play. I started up a Queek campaign after miserably failing at Skrolk's 5x over and I'm having a blast. I'm kinda pissed and tired that I have to play every fight manually since their auto-resolve is AIDS incarnate, but on the other hand, I've had orks, dorfs and Qroq-Gar attack me based solely on their auto-resolve win probably, whom I promptly smashed myself in manual engagements.
I've read some guides online and watched YT videos on how to win with Skaven but half the advice was erroneous at best? People said to use skavenslaves as frontline since they don't cost any initial money compared to clanrats. I found that skavenslaves break the line waaaay too quickly and don't give my rat ogres enough time to hammer the enemy from the back. Clanrats, on the other hand, do break, but later and do hold the line better. Someone also posted that Plagueclaw catas are better than warp lightning cannons, which I found to be just untrue? WLCs performed better for me on the field and marginally better during sieges as well. Haven't tried doom wheels quite yet so I am reserving judgment. One guy said to rush rat ogres with caping my 1st settlement and upgrading it to tier 3. This was good advice. Although it put me in food shortage, rat ogres gave me the necessary leverage to smash opposing armies.
Currently i'm on turn 24 and have 1 full province (2 cities) and a ragtag 3 tier 1 cities that I just capture/recapture from nekrons, dwarfs and kroq-gar. My army composition is 3 warp-lightning cannons, 6 rat ogres, queek, and as many clanrats as I can fit.
This campaign actually taught me the right way to use fodder and valuable troops to anvil and hammer enemies in. You don't really feel it when playing as orks or dwarves yourself because even their basic units perform OK. Not the case with skaven. It is essential to bog down the enemy with cheap clanrats and smash with expensive(r) units from the back. Also these types of half fodder half usable unit armies are a far cry from the fully elite stacks that I usually prefer to field with other races .
Anyone have any other advice for me? Army comps, any units I should check out? Other tactics I should use?
Grey Seers are very good. Especially the plague magic school. Get to the 13th spell and witness the damage, which usually means a tier 3 unit is dead. Always play into the middle of an enemy line mid-combat. I've generally found Grey Seers to be better generals long term, as the warlords are a bit lackluster vs everyone else's melee specialist heroes. Especially the Saurus ones. You should always always always get the doom bell; it negates the seers' only disadvantage. It is also funny.
When in friendly territory, never forget the power of the free clanrat burrow + warp mine explosive when they break and get butchered. They can easily cripple tier 3 units if you get a good explosion off. You should also use these very expendable units to cripple artillery, which means you'll always win an artillery war.
You really want a second army early on, and rarely if ever attack another army one on one.
Stormvermin are very good but you generally don't want many of them in an army unless you've got upgrades or a general who reduces their upeep. Poison Wind globadiers are essential; and warpfire throwers while not essential are extremely powerful. Armoured units are one of the skaven's weak points as they don't have much that really deals with them. Yon globadiers and fire throwers are your solution. Plague Monks are good but I've always found them a bit underwhelming. They squelch vs armour, and by the time you're getting them, you're running into a lot of it. Gutter runners are among the game's best ranged troops, because they can skirmish almost forever due to their high mobility. They're extremely good at tying up temple guard and the like, who can't really catch them and do get slowly whittled down.
Generally you should try to avoid fighting deep roads battles. They don't leave much room for manoeuver and force you into knock-down drag outs that skaven really prefer to avoid. They do make nice fire corridors for your artillery, mind.
For siege defense, warpfire throwers are AMAZING. Two squads of them positioned facing inwards on either side of a gate will instantly break most units that come through it, and you can rinse and repeat this almost forever.
Doom wheels are pretty good but need heavy micro managing. They're actually best in the midst of a chaotic battle line where they can harass random individual units and roll off into the sunset to do it again.
The assassin hero genuinely does work best as an assassin of other heroes. It can be difficult to get him to go one on one with them but when he does he tears them apart. He'll often lose to legendary lords but do enough damage that they're often no longer a threat.
Big monsters are a pain for the skaven because of the fear. Poison wind globadiers and artillery - ESPECIALLY warp lightning cannons - are your solution for them. If you expect dragons you should have at least two WLC to shoot them out of the sky as soon as possible.
On October 29 2018 01:45 xDaunt wrote: The other thing CA needs to do is tip the scales against the Order factions a bit more. Dark Elves and particularly Skaven aren’t a big enough menace.
I'd love for them to add a legendary skaven lord that starts at the Hellpit. That would be a really crazy addition especially since it would mean they'd be in the pathway of the Chaos Invasion. Would be an interesting dynamic.
On October 29 2018 01:45 xDaunt wrote: The other thing CA needs to do is tip the scales against the Order factions a bit more. Dark Elves and particularly Skaven aren’t a big enough menace.
I think DEs are fine, the problem with Skaven is that they are few and spread. The factions that usually get strong are the ones that confederate like crazy and Skaven doesn't really have that option because there's not really a Skaven area with multiple factions that ally and confederate.
Tbf Skrolk actually had a run a few times in my campaigns. He was not top 5 but definitely top 10. But he's the only one I ever see become a threat and he's a far shot from Muzmundi or the real powerhouses.
Vampirates should also make life a bit harder for Ulthuan, which I'm very happy about, as that's usually alongside Orcs the really strong faction and in difference to Orcs their lategame is scary AF.
The areas where the "good" facs are dominant is mostly the new world, in the old one Orcs, Norsca and sometimes VC are the ones I see snowball on a regular basis. I guess Nehekhara gets usually Settra'd sooner or later, but due to Settra usually not giving a fuck that hardly matters.
On October 29 2018 01:45 xDaunt wrote: The other thing CA needs to do is tip the scales against the Order factions a bit more. Dark Elves and particularly Skaven aren’t a big enough menace.
I think DEs are fine, the problem with Skaven is that they are few and spread. The factions that usually get strong are the ones that confederate like crazy and Skaven doesn't really have that option because there's not really a Skaven area with multiple factions that ally and confederate.
Tbf Skrolk actually had a run a few times in my campaigns. He was not top 5 but definitely top 10. But he's the only one I ever see become a threat and he's a far shot from Muzmundi or the real powerhouses.
Vampirates should also make life a bit harder for Ulthuan, which I'm very happy about, as that's usually alongside Orcs the really strong faction and in difference to Orcs their lategame is scary AF.
The areas where the "good" facs are dominant is mostly the new world, in the old one Orcs, Norsca and sometimes VC are the ones I see snowball on a regular basis. I guess Nehekhara gets usually Settra'd sooner or later, but due to Settra usually not giving a fuck that hardly matters.
The problem is that Total War diiplomacy mechanics work against the Skaven. Literally everybody hates the Skaven. ESPECIALLY other Skaven. In lore that doesn't matter though because there's millions of the fuckers (at least).
In Total War, though, it means you can get ganged up on by every faction surrounding you with no hope of forging even temporary peace trearies, and in a game where you don't have millions of rats to call upon at will you can be boxed into your provinces and unable to move because the AI factions will steamroll you the second you do.
EPT
.
