Total War: Warhammer - Page 102

On February 02 2018 00:41 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Dark elve question: how do you guys use shades, and why would they be so superior to darkshards?

Also I still can’t find an invious counter to seaguards early gale. Hate those guys every game a bit more.

Finally, Morathi sucks. The AI brings armies with 5 phoenixes and 3 great eagles and tries immediately to snipe her out of the sky. Maybe the whole dark pegasus thing was not such a great idea..

On February 02 2018 00:47 Gorsameth wrote:

Shades are armor piercing damage, which is huge because of the reduction in normal damage by armor.

On February 02 2018 00:41 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Dark elve question: how do you guys use shades, and why would they be so superior to darkshards?

Also I still can’t find an invious counter to seaguards early gale. Hate those guys every game a bit more.

Finally, Morathi sucks. The AI brings armies with 5 phoenixes and 3 great eagles and tries immediately to snipe her out of the sky. Maybe the whole dark pegasus thing was not such a great idea..

On February 02 2018 01:42 Archeon wrote:

The main thing with shades is that they've got 50%+ dps more than every other ranged infantry (including darkshards) while dealing 80% AP. In difference to most AP missile infantry they are also archers (and have close to 2x the dps of handgunners and thunderers), which allows them to shoot over walls and over your troops, so no massive line of fire problems which counterbalance those gunpowder units.
The fact that they are invisible somewhat counterbalances their lower range (still higher than DS) and they stand tight enough to barrage decently.
They are also decent melee combatants and while you should keep them out of melee fights as much as possible, their melee stats aren't bad by any means.

Which all in all allows for armies like 4 dreadspears, 3 bolt throwers, Lord and 12 shades, which will murder all armies you'll encounter throughout the playthrough at 2/3rds the cost of most t5 armies and will go out with close to zero losses from siege battles.

Morathi isn't the strongest LL, but the fastest unit in the game IIRC. If they want to snipe her either kite until you won the ground battle or just fly in circles over your army where your ranged troops should shoot them down.

On February 02 2018 03:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Thing is that they are quite good (apparently very good for GW variant) in melee.

From what I read here and there, they are not really better than dark shards when it comes to simply shooting at stuff. They have higher damage but less models. They are also way more expensive.

I guess I'll mix and use shades to sneak around ennemy armies and murder artillery and archers. For simple range support, it looks like DS with shields are a bit better, and perform much better when it comes to skirmisher duels.

On February 02 2018 01:09 B.I.G. wrote:
Should you use shades the same way as sea guard then?

On February 02 2018 05:32 Archeon wrote:
^which is the reason you usually pair them with anti-large/charge defense vs large, like all archer units. Dreadspears and Blackguard are both rock-solid.


Shades have 88% of Shards' models and 47.8% more damage. A full Shades stack is at 204dps compared to 156.4 from shards. They also have slightly more range and slightly more armor-pen % just from base stats.
So yes, they are significantly better at simply shooting at stuff.

As a result shades are about even to shielded darkshards in skirmisher fights but will fight it out quicker.

And yes, price-wise they are a t4 unit and as such shouldn't be rushed. But outside of WE which I can't test they are the best archer/gunmen stack in the game. They aren't just strong because of their gimmicks and versatility, they are strong and have their gimmicks and are versatile.


LSG are better vs shock cav and worse as archers. But due to their dps you can field armies consisting of mostly Shades and you usually play them like archers if that was the question.