• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:55
CET 09:55
KST 17:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0222LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)37Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker12PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)15
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Terran Scanner Sweep Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) SC2 AI Tournament 2026 PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which units you wish saw more use in the game? TvZ is the most complete match up Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them? ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2731 users

Beyond the Scandal - Page 10

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
johnbongham
Profile Joined April 2014
451 Posts
February 06 2015 23:16 GMT
#181
On February 07 2015 08:11 DPK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 07:55 Daralii wrote:
On February 07 2015 07:18 Capped wrote:
If valve arent responsible for the surge in CSGO's popularity and growth then who is, please tell.

CSGL, honestly.


Which wouldn't even exist if Valve didn't add the gun skins update.


OMG wow big fn deal valve added skins to a game that historically has always had community made skins available for free! Bend down kiss their feet and worship them! Thank you LORD GABEN for skins and the popularity of cs! What would we do without you!
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-06 23:25:04
February 06 2015 23:21 GMT
#182
On February 07 2015 08:15 johnbongham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 08:00 Souma wrote:
I don't think you've actually followed CS:GO closely and are incapable of properly analyzing its growth. It has not "always been huge." Any past success of 1.6 currently has nothing to do with CS:GO's success. The numbers have told us everything we need to know the past year and a half or so. As much as you'd like to think that the community is always responsible for everything (except apparently match fixing) that is not the case.

There is no way to completely regulate gambling. As it is, gambling online is already illegal in the U.S. That hasn't really stopped people from betting real money online. You can tear down CSGL all you want, another one will just pop up, and another and another... and another. Granted, Valve probably has no jurisdiction in Poland, where CSGL is located, so try as they may they can only do so much.

And stop saying the NA scene is DEAD, holy crap the hyperbole is ridiculous. If a handful of players getting banned killed the scene then that means the region was dead to begin with. It's funny how you say the scene is dead yet all these big organizations are still pouring money into it, and EG is still looking for a team. I believe the description you are looking for is, "currently unable to compete," not "dead."

"You want to talk about maps?" I said they had to improve the map pool (didn't disagree at all) and here you go. Are you even reading anything?

On February 07 2015 07:55 Daralii wrote:
On February 07 2015 07:18 Capped wrote:
If valve arent responsible for the surge in CSGO's popularity and growth then who is, please tell.

CSGL, honestly.

CSGL wouldn't be here if Valve didn't introduce skins, and the bigger the tournament the more bets are made, so Valve sponsoring these majors is, believe it or not, having a huge effect on the community.



Seriously, man. Just stop. That is like saying that broodwar has nothing to do with sc2's success despite sc2 clearly being the inferior game. If you think the popularity of cs right now is due to skins and gambling and not its gameplay you are confused. People love to play CS, People love to watch cs, and now people love to gamble on it.

The NA scene is dead. Ex-IBP was the only team with even a slimmer of hope to compete against the world's best and it was blown up before it could get off the ground. Swag is a cs prodigy - there is nobody like him in NA right now, and now hes done for the foreseeable future. There is no in-game leader like Dazed right now either. Daps and adren are source heroes, who have never competed among the world's best at any time in their entire careers because they simply are not good enough and I don't see that changing. Maybe 2016 we will have some players emerge and prove their stripes like nitr0, who then go on to form a complete team, not just a team with a couple rising stars and a bunch of filler. I honestly admire the fact that you hold onto so much hope but there really is none at all right now and you are going to be feeling a lot worse about things after each and every disappointment you have as the tournaments come and go this year. I don't believe the matchfixing players should go unpunished, I think their punishment needs to be reasonable and defined and I think valve needs to make good on all the cs scene has given them to work with without simply screwing over a bunch of players who were participating in something valve has chosen to completely ignore up until this point.

Skin betting is terrible for this game. It isn't real money, and if it is, then it is illegal for many of the people currently participating in it. This will get noticed eventually, and valve will simply wash their hands of any culpability and ban skin betting like they had nothing to do with it right? *eyeroll*


Really? You think SC2 is successful? The reason SC2 has been dying is because it's a completely different game from Brood War; it's not BW and the only thing BW did was get it extra initial hype. Since then the game has been falling on its own toes. Likewise, 1.6 and Source gave CS:GO some initial hype, which immediately died down as the game started spiraling downwards. Then Valve began to make changes based on feedback, and now CS:GO is what it is now because of that.

And when did I say the popularity of CS is due to just skins and gambling? Holy crap stop conflating other people's arguments with mine. I'm the one saying Valve deserves some credit for a variety of reasons for CS:GO's current success.

Like I said, you are using the wrong word. You are, with all your flub, saying that the NA scene cannot compete this year. That is not the same thing as being dead. Dead would imply an inability to be resuscitated. The NA scene will thrive again at some point, which means it's not "dead," just handicapped.
Writer
Nagisama
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada4481 Posts
February 06 2015 23:49 GMT
#183
It's not exactly the addition of skins that really jump-started the game. It's the economy that came with the skins. The fact that they could be bought/sold/traded with and therefore bet with, was the big thing that helped it. The custom skins in 1.6 were never legal for competitive play either since those skins tend to completely change the look of the gun, compared to just having a custom paint job on the gun. You had to use default models. Besides, you had to download them, and place them in a folder in your cstrike folder to get the skins to work.

CSGL's site is also very convenient for viewers since it shows when the matches are scheduled to be played easily, and they embed the stream on the match page too. The games CSGL decides not to open bets for, gets next to no viewers, as seen when they ignored ESEA for about a week or so. When viewers have skins/items invested into a match, they'll want to watch it.
Calendar"Everyone who has accomplished more than you has no life; Everyone who has accomplished less than you is a noob." | Elem: "nagi is actually really smart"
DPK
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada487 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-07 00:13:38
February 06 2015 23:51 GMT
#184
On February 07 2015 08:16 johnbongham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 08:11 DPK wrote:
On February 07 2015 07:55 Daralii wrote:
On February 07 2015 07:18 Capped wrote:
If valve arent responsible for the surge in CSGO's popularity and growth then who is, please tell.

CSGL, honestly.


Which wouldn't even exist if Valve didn't add the gun skins update.


OMG wow big fn deal valve added skins to a game that historically has always had community made skins available for free! Bend down kiss their feet and worship them! Thank you LORD GABEN for skins and the popularity of cs! What would we do without you!


Learn to read before getting on your high horse. I was just pointing out that CSGL wouldn't exist if Valve didn't add skins (try to prove me otherwise or at least, answer Capped question). Jeez is this becoming reddit or something? If you hate valve so much as well as how they're dealing with the game, then just leave. You won't be missed. That negativity is getting tiresome really.
Desire.Discipline.Dedication
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
February 07 2015 00:23 GMT
#185
I dont know why people bother arguing with this guy lol
Useless wet fish.
DPK
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada487 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-07 01:03:46
February 07 2015 01:02 GMT
#186
On February 07 2015 09:23 Capped wrote:
I dont know why people bother arguing with this guy lol


Well to be fair, I do understand some of the points he's making. Some of them are completely valid but he's also exaggerating a lot and he's sometimes flat out wrong.
Desire.Discipline.Dedication
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
February 07 2015 01:04 GMT
#187
On February 07 2015 05:15 lestye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 03:09 DEN1ED wrote:
This whole argument about what/who is a professional is completely irrelevant because once again, they just say it is a "recommendation". Come out with some real defined RULES or actually do something about sites like csgl. Just recommending things doesn't mean shit.


If everything is a subjective, then they have the power to be judge, jury & executioner on any basis without being limited to something they might not have the foresight to see. This new guy is getting caught doing shady shit, but the rules doesn't cover that, so I guess we have to let it slide, amend the rules and hope to catch the next bastard.

If there are rules, people are going to ride the line. However, Valve doesn't want you ANYWHERE near that line, if that makes sense.

You could say that's complete bullshit, unfair, and you'd have a good point, but I think that's how Valve sees things.


It is bullshit, and it's also terrible for the game/esport scene. If they don't want anyone even near the line, a recommendation won't do anything. Just come out and tell players that if you want to participate in valve sponsored events you aren't allowed to bet on cs, period.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
February 07 2015 01:08 GMT
#188
They have neither the time nor resources to regulate that properly. A recommendation is all they can manage.

Rather them spend their time doing other stuff to improve the game. I personally couldn't care less if pros bet on games that they are not a part of.
Writer
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
February 07 2015 01:11 GMT
#189
On February 07 2015 10:08 Souma wrote:
They have neither the time nor resources to regulate that properly. A recommendation is all they can manage.

Rather them spend their time doing other stuff to improve the game. I personally couldn't care less if pros bet on games that they are not a part of.


I don't care either, but it seems like Valve does. I just find the idea of a recommendation to be pointless. Either make rules or don't make rules.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
February 07 2015 01:12 GMT
#190
Well they're not making rules. That's why they're just recommending. :p
Writer
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
February 07 2015 01:18 GMT
#191
On February 07 2015 10:12 Souma wrote:
Well they're not making rules. That's why they're just recommending. :p


I know but if it's not a real rule then why spend so much time defining "professional"? It seems like they are trying to make it a rule without actually making a rule...
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
February 07 2015 01:44 GMT
#192
They just want the pro community to be on the same page. It's a stern warning. That way if someone does end up getting caught match fixing again they can say, "We warned you! Don't tell us we didn't warn you this time!"
Writer
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4186 Posts
February 07 2015 05:01 GMT
#193
On February 07 2015 10:11 DEN1ED wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 10:08 Souma wrote:
They have neither the time nor resources to regulate that properly. A recommendation is all they can manage.

Rather them spend their time doing other stuff to improve the game. I personally couldn't care less if pros bet on games that they are not a part of.


I don't care either, but it seems like Valve does. I just find the idea of a recommendation to be pointless. Either make rules or don't make rules.

It's not pointless. If they come across someone on the team/organization betting while they're investigating, THEY'RE GOING TO ASSUME THE WORST.

To avoid that, they're telling the teams, "DON'T GO ANYWHERE NEAR THERE!" to make it completely impossible for someone to implicated.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2015 05:38 GMT
#194
On February 07 2015 14:01 lestye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2015 10:11 DEN1ED wrote:
On February 07 2015 10:08 Souma wrote:
They have neither the time nor resources to regulate that properly. A recommendation is all they can manage.

Rather them spend their time doing other stuff to improve the game. I personally couldn't care less if pros bet on games that they are not a part of.


I don't care either, but it seems like Valve does. I just find the idea of a recommendation to be pointless. Either make rules or don't make rules.

It's not pointless. If they come across someone on the team/organization betting while they're investigating, THEY'RE GOING TO ASSUME THE WORST.

To avoid that, they're telling the teams, "DON'T GO ANYWHERE NEAR THERE!" to make it completely impossible for someone to implicated.

Precisely this.
Writer@WriterYamato
ForTehDarkseid
Profile Joined April 2013
8139 Posts
February 07 2015 21:16 GMT
#195
Thank god, ESC are clean.

No Valve-bashing needed, they have to act quick before the last qualifier.
I think their strategy is to dumpster bad Western teams (c) uriel
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
February 08 2015 02:11 GMT
#196
On February 08 2015 06:16 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Thank god, ESC are clean.

No Valve-bashing needed, they have to act quick before the last qualifier.

No, I'm pretty sure Valve should be bashed for this. They pretty much banned an entire team because of some reddit accusations.


J. Corsair
Profile Joined June 2014
United States470 Posts
February 20 2015 09:10 GMT
#197
Wow, djzapz is just full of awful opinions.
“...it is human nature, I suppose, to be futile and ridiculous.” - Scaramouche
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech151
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1253
ToSsGirL 182
Shinee 89
Bisu 53
Sharp 37
Hm[arnc] 27
Noble 16
Dota 2
XaKoH 361
NeuroSwarm142
League of Legends
JimRising 623
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2249
kRYSTAL_32
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King100
Other Games
summit1g9079
C9.Mang0615
ceh9367
Happy181
crisheroes125
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL20288
Other Games
gamesdonequick843
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Sammyuel 32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt1062
• HappyZerGling123
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5m
Wardi Open
3h 5m
Monday Night Weeklies
8h 5m
OSC
15h 5m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-14
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.