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Excludos
Norway8260 Posts
On June 07 2016 05:30 Luolis wrote: "you shouldn't rush on eco" LKSF BNOIUPEYTPSIE YHIP+ASYJI+ ASIJOÅÅ JIO HOW FUCKING RETARDED YOU ARE!!!!111 OFC YOU RUSH ON FUCKING ECO Why would you do that? It only dramatically increases the chances of actually taking the round. I suggest going for picks instead. Preferably long range with glocks. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8260 Posts
On June 07 2016 06:21 Clonester wrote: I believe it because the hacking became extreme by any means. The hackers are more open, they play with large inventorys, they have more then 2000 hours of straight hacking, they admit it ingame and brag with it, hell they do everything they can to be obvious. If it is not enough, watch Ko1n/KevinS on his way to RWS 30. If I do not want the players to read out my RAM, do not give them the info for that. Yes, that would make the nettrafic bigger and the servers would need more hardware, but in countrys like the USA or central EU with a Ping of <40, this would work. LoL and Dota show how non seen Information can be managed only server side. All the aimcorrection is pretty easy to spot, at least for all non perfect aimbot setups. But where does Valve give you the hope of at least trying? Aimcorrection, non recoil, silent aim, all are extremly intrusive into the game and can be detected pretty easy, but why do they not get detected? Because it takes 5-10 FPS? The players are totally left alone with the hacking, Overwatch is a joke since there is a way to use a "Overwatch protection hack" (players that use that cannot be reportet, as you do not report the correct person with this hack). How is this even possible? You report such a person and if he is funny it just tells you that you reported yourself. How can Valve not fix such things? Valve makes 220 Millions a year with the game but is not able to invest 5-10 Million of it into a better anti-cheat system? There are undetected hacks (open for public) since October 2014 floating in German cheatboards, retooling the hacks by picking up the coders would be a way to go, it might not got from day to day, but it would work and give you results. But it feels like VAC hasnt even been updated in a year in CS:GO, while it has been in TF2 finally after almost 4 years of LMAO-Bot-Abuse. 4 Years! This.is.nothing.Valve.could.not.solve.with.a.reasonable.amount.of.money.and.willpower.It is easy to fix to shut down arround 75-85% of all used hacks. The privat hacks and expensive hacks from professional coders are not easy to fix, but these arent used in amounts that ruin this game. And lets get real about "prime matchmaking". This will not sovle anything regarding the hackers. When you play with or against openly hackers who say they hack and call in the round where the Ts go and where to peak, where to flash, when these guys use inventorys that go into the 100s or even 1000s of dollars, then something is wrong. "Yeah, I hack since beginning of last year, never got detected"... Beginning of 2015! That is Valves fault and "it is not easy to fix" is not an answer to this. It is in no way, it is unacceptable. This is completely unrelated to actually catching the hackers, which Valve sucks at: But once they do catch them, it only takes 2 minutes and a few bucks to be up and running again on a new account. It's completely useless to keep hackers at bay when they can play for months on a single account before getting caught, and then be back at it again within a few minutes. The best suggestion I've seen is shadow banning. Don't tell the players anything. Let them continue playing. But once you get caught you're now forced to play on the shitty servers with all the other hackers. Let them have fun with each other. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On June 07 2016 06:35 Excludos wrote: This is completely unrelated to actually catching the hackers, which Valve sucks at: But once they do catch them, it only takes 2 minutes and a few bucks to be up and running again on a new account. It's completely useless to keep hackers at bay when they can play for months on a single account before getting caught, and then be back at it again within a few minutes. The best suggestion I've seen is shadow banning. Don't tell the players anything. Let them continue playing. But once you get caught you're now forced to play on the shitty servers with all the other hackers. Let them have fun with each other. Shadow banning has been used by some games in the past and it worked pretty well as much as I recall. It would atleast take the cheaters away from the normal players for some time (till the cheaters rebuy their accs). But the acc rebuying wouldnt be a problem, if you couldnt sit then again over 1 year on an undetected public cheatprogramm. If you get banned every 2-4 weeks the amount of hackers who could rebuy their accounts, and then farm them in 2 weeks to lvl 3 would be reduced by alot. The players feel like they've been left alone by Valve for such along time now that they get mad like me. Cheaters have been there since forever and a day, I play counterstrike now over 10 years and cheaters have been there. But they never spit it in your face like today, there has never been such an amount (compared to the overall playerbase) like today. There has to be a made a move by valve and there are alot of possible moves to do. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8260 Posts
On June 07 2016 06:41 Clonester wrote: Shadow banning has been used by some games in the past and it worked pretty well as much as I recall. It would atleast take the cheaters away from the normal players for some time (till the cheaters rebuy their accs). But the acc rebuying wouldnt be a problem, if you couldnt sit then again over 1 year on an undetected public cheatprogramm. If you get banned every 2-4 weeks the amount of hackers who could rebuy their accounts, and then farm them in 2 weeks to lvl 3 would be reduced by alot. The players feel like they've been left alone by Valve for such along time now that they get mad like me. Cheaters have been there since forever and a day, I play counterstrike now over 10 years and cheaters have been there. But they never spit it in your face like today, there has never been such an amount (compared to the overall playerbase) like today. There has to be a made a move by valve and there are alot of possible moves to do. I completely agree. I've pretty much had it with this game because of it. It's incredibly infuriating having hackers in a third of your matches. That's a huge amount, probably bigger than any other large multiplayer game out there (That I know of anyways. If anyone knows of anything else that comes close I would be interested in hearing about it). | ||
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Censured
Czech Republic1061 Posts
On June 07 2016 06:49 Excludos wrote: I completely agree. I've pretty much had it with this game because of it. It's incredibly infuriating having hackers in a third of your matches. That's a huge amount, probably bigger than any other large multiplayer game out there (That I know of anyways. If anyone knows of anything else that comes close I would be interested in hearing about it). Rainbow six siege or The Division is not even close - these games basically have no anticheat at all. I am never buying ubisoft game ever again. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
Clonester wrote: If I do not want the players to read out my RAM, do not give them the info for that. Yes, that would make the nettrafic bigger and the servers would need more hardware, but in countrys like the USA or central EU with a Ping of <40, this would work. LoL and Dota show how non seen Information can be managed only server side. At some point the game needs to know the position of the players (and there's already IIRC some mechanisms that limit the availability of such information, like when a player is guaranteed to be far from any area where it could be visible). And that has nothing to do with nettraffic because this is the server that gives that info, as it has the final word on what happens in the game. For LoL and DotA it's way simpler, because the client never has to know the position thanks to the fog of war, so with an extremely small margin when an opponent is near a zone with vision, you don't have to send that info to the client. It's way more complicated for CS:GO. Clonester wrote: All the aimcorrection is pretty easy to spot, at least for all non perfect aimbot setups. But where does Valve give you the hope of at least trying? Aimcorrection, non recoil, silent aim, all are extremly intrusive into the game and can be detected pretty easy, but why do they not get detected? Because it takes 5-10 FPS? I do not know the details of which cheats exactly are intrusive (I'd guess those you mention are, though you never know if some smartass has found a way to make it not so, which is one of the big challenges of this war) or not. I think silent aim has not been a thing for some time now. For the rest, there are techniques for code obfuscation and binary signature scrambling that could make a unique hack appear as multiple ones with different signatures (I don't know if some use that or not, but I know this is feasible). Which means these can't really be detected by just looking for a specific signature. Clonester wrote: The players are totally left alone with the hacking, Overwatch is a joke since there is a way to use a "Overwatch protection hack" (players that use that cannot be reportet, as you do not report the correct person with this hack). How is this even possible? You report such a person and if he is funny it just tells you that you reported yourself. How can Valve not fix such things? Really? Do you have examples of such a hack? I never knew it even existed. And once again, your question is justified. But that doesn't mean that it's easy either. Jeesh, software engineering is complicated enough as it is, let alone computer security. Clonester wrote: Valve makes 220 Millions a year with the game but is not able to invest 5-10 Million of it into a better anti-cheat system? There are undetected hacks (open for public) since October 2014 floating in German cheatboards, retooling the hacks by picking up the coders would be a way to go, it might not got from day to day, but it would work and give you results. But it feels like VAC hasnt even been updated in a year in CS:GO, while it has been in TF2 finally after almost 4 years of LMAO-Bot-Abuse. 4 Years! Have you considered that putting more millions into it might be pointless? There's the signature detection, alright. Buy every hack around, reverse engineer them, then actually detect them through VAC. Once you've done this, what's left? Heuristics, so actually taking in consideration just the infos the client send and determine "this is a hack attempt, because it clearly violates the game constraints". But you run the risk of considering some player a cheater while he's not, because of lag, computer performance and whatnot. So while doable, not a no-brainer decision by any means either. Clonester wrote: This.is.nothing.Valve.could.not.solve.with.a.reasonable.amount.of.money.and.willpower.It is easy to fix to shut down arround 75-85% of all used hacks. The privat hacks and expensive hacks from professional coders are not easy to fix, but these arent used in amounts that ruin this game. I'd really like to know where do your stats come from and why you consider it easy. I'd really wish. Also, there's the cost/benefits ratio. If it takes Valve two millions a year to be able to fix say 10% of the hacks, that's not an easy decision to take. It's still a company (whether you like it or not, I personally don't but no other structure can really maintain an esports game), and they have the right to decide whether or not they'll do something in light of that. I'd think they wouldn't like to spend millions per year to fix only a small portion of hacks, which would have no noticeable impact on the game anyway. So they would have spent a lot of money for a non-perceptible result. Would you? People would think the situation hasn't changed. Clonester wrote: And lets get real about "prime matchmaking". This will not sovle anything regarding the hackers. When you play with or against openly hackers who say they hack and call in the round where the Ts go and where to peak, where to flash, when these guys use inventorys that go into the 100s or even 1000s of dollars, then something is wrong. "Yeah, I hack since beginning of last year, never got detected"... Beginning of 2015! That is Valves fault and "it is not easy to fix" is not an answer to this. It is in no way, it is unacceptable. I don't think Prime will be a gamechanger as well. I just hope that it'll partially make it better, but I don't have high hopes. Then, if you want to think this is easy to fix, up to you. I think you're greatly mistaken, but apparently I can't convince you. Also, as I said, I think Valve could do more. But I think this would be neither easy nor efficient, so that's pretty much a longshot to expect them to invest that much in something that wouldn't yield noticeable results. | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
On June 07 2016 05:30 Luolis wrote: "you shouldn't rush on eco" LKSF BNOIUPEYTPSIE YHIP+ASYJI+ ASIJOÅÅ JIO HOW FUCKING RETARDED YOU ARE!!!!111 OFC YOU RUSH ON FUCKING ECO Most of the time, rush is a quick death past mg in my experience. Higher chance to do picks, see if someone is aggressive, or gamble on a site as CT. You sound like the player I instantly put on ignore. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7172 Posts
On June 07 2016 22:56 crappen wrote: Most of the time, rush is a quick death past mg in my experience. Higher chance to do picks, see if someone is aggressive, or gamble on a site as CT. You sound like the player I instantly put on ignore. Most of the time if you sit around with glocks, theres 2 problems. A: they wont push on antieco unless theyre really dumb. B: even if they push you still have glocks. With a rush you atleast have the chance to get the trade going (which wouldve happened in the particular situation) and best case scenario plant the bomb (which is what you want with glocks anyways.) edit: and yes i was quite salty, but i typed the original message during a second game with 2 griefers from a game before, and the guy complaining about rushing really got on my nerves. | ||
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7172 Posts
On June 07 2016 23:41 Ragnarork wrote: *send someone to apply ice on Luolis forehead during games* Like im fine with people being bad or whatever. Im not fine with people thinking they know something while actually being retards :D | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
And buy tazers | ||
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Luolis
Finland7172 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
We don't win more of these because of that, but at least we have a good laugh. :') | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
CT: Rush a spot where you get into close combat with supperiour numbers and some dodging place. Perfect spots: Overpass A long, Overpass B short, Cache A main (with 1 flash), Mirage ramp or Mirage mid. CT more: Camp down hard to peak spots. Perfect example: Buy taser in Cbbl droper. Taser is a great weapon on CT eco side. T: Do not rush a spot with brute force without anything. The good old cyka rush B is normally pretty weak as the CTs usually have a half decent setup there. You can either rush outside of the spots to gain a personal advantage (overpass fountain to toilets, usually 5v1, overpass connector, cbbl dropper). You also need at least 1 flash in T eco rounds, else your rush doesnt have a chance to get a spot. If you want to cyka rush B, you need a flash to give you atleast a small chance. Else the rush A/B will not work. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On June 07 2016 23:50 Ragnarork wrote: ArtyK's game for some time now has been to buy tazer on eco rounds. We don't win more of these because of that, but at least we have a good laugh. :') But we don't win less, and you can't put a price on that! <3 | ||
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Yrr
Germany804 Posts
On June 07 2016 23:52 Clonester wrote: How to Eco: ..on my skill level: Half the team buys stuff, the other half doesnt. Round is lost and the eco players cant buy next round either because half the team doesnt have the money. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7172 Posts
On June 07 2016 23:52 Clonester wrote: How to Eco: CT: Rush a spot where you get into close combat with supperiour numbers and some dodging place. Perfect spots: Overpass A long, Overpass B short, Cache A main (with 1 flash), Mirage ramp or Mirage mid. CT more: Camp down hard to peak spots. Perfect example: Buy taser in Cbbl droper. Taser is a great weapon on CT eco side. T: Do not rush a spot with brute force without anything. The good old cyka rush B is normally pretty weak as the CTs usually have a half decent setup there. You can either rush outside of the spots to gain a personal advantage (overpass fountain to toilets, usually 5v1, overpass connector, cbbl dropper). You also need at least 1 flash in T eco rounds, else your rush doesnt have a chance to get a spot. If you want to cyka rush B, you need a flash to give you atleast a small chance. Else the rush A/B will not work. To be fair we are talking about MM ecoes here. Obviously ecoes will be more tactical in real CS. If you play MM i would argue for a rush with a flash or 2 to be your best choice to win a round or get the plant. (unless your opponents are idiots who rush every round) | ||
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
That's not even considering most of the time, the "rush" B is actually people gathering really fast towards B then waiting, or jumping in one by one, or a lot of silly mistakes that make the rush completely inefficient. In fact, a lot of people don't know exactly what a rush is and don't really think further than "let's go all on one site", then enter said site higgledy-piggledy (what a nice word btw). | ||
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Luolis
Finland7172 Posts
 )))))))))))))))))))))))) | ||
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Excludos
Norway8260 Posts
On June 08 2016 00:16 Ragnarork wrote: Yeah, most of the time the bland rush B is met with a smoke, a molly, and five deaths to nil, or to one in the best cases, when half decent players hold... That's not even considering most of the time, the "rush" B is actually people gathering really fast towards B then waiting, or jumping in one by one, or a lot of silly mistakes that make the rush completely inefficient. In fact, a lot of people don't know exactly what a rush is and don't really think further than "let's go all on one site", then enter said site higgledy-piggledy (what a nice word btw). Tbh you don't even have to do it straight away. Waiting near a site entrance for one minute before going is a really good eco strat in mm. Either the opponent get's bored and starts pushing, or they waste all their nades hoping that you will rush into them. But with pub groups that is practically impossible. There will always be that one idiot who jumps around making sounds that can be heard across the entire map. | ||
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