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ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
October 28 2015 16:15 GMT
#901
On October 29 2015 00:47 Djzapz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 00:13 ACrow wrote:
I wish Overwatch that it will not suffer the same fate as Heroes

I haven't followed Heroes, has the "fate" of the game already been determined or is that just you? What do you mean?

Nonetheless I watched like 30 minutes of if and I think it looks interesting. I watched Summit play the Reaper and I'm pretty sure I'll fucking hate the game because of that type of bullshit though. Will have to see. It looks like a game with immense potential but I imagine it'll be frustrating as hell. I'm probably too old for things that are different, I'm probably stuck playing Counter Strike forever.

Nah, it hasn't been determined. It's been off to a rocky start though, and I don't think it's a good sign that the numbers didn't pick up after official release.
Get off my lawn, young punks
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2015 16:20 GMT
#902
On October 29 2015 01:15 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 00:47 Djzapz wrote:
On October 29 2015 00:13 ACrow wrote:
I wish Overwatch that it will not suffer the same fate as Heroes

I haven't followed Heroes, has the "fate" of the game already been determined or is that just you? What do you mean?

Nonetheless I watched like 30 minutes of if and I think it looks interesting. I watched Summit play the Reaper and I'm pretty sure I'll fucking hate the game because of that type of bullshit though. Will have to see. It looks like a game with immense potential but I imagine it'll be frustrating as hell. I'm probably too old for things that are different, I'm probably stuck playing Counter Strike forever.

Nah, it hasn't been determined. It's been off to a rocky start though, and I don't think it's a good sign that the numbers didn't pick up after official release.

Not every game is good for streaming and Blizzard could be doing fine with it. A successful product for Blizzard and big streaming numbers don’t go hand and hand.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10962 Posts
October 28 2015 16:25 GMT
#903
Lol and Dota seem to do fine with Streaming, so it seems to be a bad sign for Hots.

Which wasn't/isn't bad at all... its imho just not diffrent enough from the other too AND when it Comes to casual/easy/fun Moba Action --> Smite is right there and fun even if you have no real clue what you are doing (and while not everything is free like in Dota, isn't as ridiculously overpriced as Hots).


Overwatch is probably the first Blizzrad game since SC2 that Hypes me a bit... I am in dire Need of a fun shooter to Play from time to time and this Looks pretty much perfect when it Comes to that.
Superbanana
Profile Joined May 2014
2369 Posts
October 28 2015 16:31 GMT
#904
Heroes is not a flop!
The fact it even became an esport is enough to believe its sucessful. Not all games must get LoL viewership to be a sucess.
I guess people had the hopes and expectations too high just because its a moba, or maybe because its from blizzard.
In PvZ the zerg can make the situation spire out of control but protoss can adept to the situation.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
October 28 2015 16:35 GMT
#905
On October 29 2015 01:25 Velr wrote:
Lol and Dota seem to do fine with Streaming, so it seems to be a bad sign for Hots.

Which wasn't/isn't bad at all... its imho just not diffrent enough from the other too AND when it Comes to casual/easy/fun Moba Action --> Smite is right there and fun even if you have no real clue what you are doing (and while not everything is free like in Dota, isn't as ridiculously overpriced as Hots).


Overwatch is probably the first Blizzrad game since SC2 that Hypes me a bit... I am in dire Need of a fun shooter to Play from time to time and this Looks pretty much perfect when it Comes to that.


For some reason I don't particularly like watching Heroes, though I like playing. While Heroes of the Dorm did well, Twitch numbers even for tournaments haven't been particularly impressive. We'll see if Blizzcon can turn that around.

But, Reddit stats show that Heroes is doing pretty well, the subreddit growth is comparable to LoL/Dota's launch last I read.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-28 16:37:48
October 28 2015 16:36 GMT
#906
I played Heroes in the beta and found it awkward, the engine was terrible and you felt like you were pea shooting all the time. You were also incredibly reliant on your team with very little potential to individually outplay people. I did like the models and all that(although the rainbow unicorn wqs a huge turnoff) being able to move around as Tyrande was really cool. In the end I just got bored, its only advantage was the short games. I quit at the end of alpha or so.

So it is possible that they changed a lot, but I personally cant bother because im and was already invested in dota. Similairely the initial D3 release was atrocious but RoS was quite good and they keep improving it, sales are still bad because of the initial release.

Because Overwatch is made of a real engine and they spend years polishing Titan the basis is all really good. The fact that you have aim, fast paced movement etc already gives the idea that you can outplay people individually and with no good competition in the market I have no reason not to play this. My initial impression of Heroes was that it was rushed, badly optimized and very low skill. Dont really have that with Overwatch. It just looks incredible.

Initial impression means a lot and Overwatch seems to have a really good one.
WriterXiao8~~
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 28 2015 16:44 GMT
#907
On October 29 2015 01:31 Superbanana wrote:
Heroes is not a flop!
The fact it even became an esport is enough to believe its sucessful. Not all games must get LoL viewership to be a sucess.
I guess people had the hopes and expectations too high just because its a moba, or maybe because its from blizzard.

High expectations are fair for a Blizzard game though. All of their latest releases had huge numbers. They generate a lot of interest for their games just with their brand and cross-promotion. And heroes is like a posterchild for this with characters being used from Blizzard's most popular games. Just look at how many sc2 players played it as their first moba instead of Dota or LoL just because its from Blizzard.

I dont mean to say heroes is a failure, but for Blizzard standards it is probably a disappointment. Personally I was underwhelmed by it since I first saw it while I am much more impressed by Overwatch.
Off-season = best season
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2015 16:50 GMT
#908
I find the entire discussion of declaring games failures or successes through the setting of arbitrary metrics super tiresome. It is this circle jerk debate where everyone just sets their own bar and claims the game got there or didn’t make it based on that their own standards.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22647 Posts
October 28 2015 17:15 GMT
#909
On October 29 2015 01:13 Wuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2015 22:54 Yurie wrote:
On October 28 2015 22:46 iXphobos wrote:
On October 28 2015 22:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:
The other advantage to pick/ban is that when characters are (inevitably) monetized, switching characters mid-game offers a considerable advantage to individuals who have bought more characters. I don't think even the people that somehow believes having more characters in MOBA isn't an advantage would disagree with that.

I doubt Blizzard will change anything, though, because people will accept this advantage as something they just have to put up with.

Blizz said on the last beta streamer event that whatever the payment model will be, all heroes will be available for free for all players from the start.


Oh then it might be interesting. Stopped with LoL and smite due to the unlock systems and stuck to DotA instead. Unlocks and similar things that cause an uneven play-field are the bane of any multi player game. In single player you don't really notice it unless they shove it in your face, you just have more challenge.


I've noticed that Blizzard games tend to use different business models, they really use every opportunity to experiment (for a while it was WoW - subscription, D3 - RMAH / microtransactions, SC2 - eSports, HoTS - unlocks/dlc)

Currently D3 seems to have reverted to traditional, selling game copies outside Asia, so now we have Overwatch looking to try how cosmetic microtransactions solely work out (WoW does have cosmetics too). Seems Blizzard really wants to nail down a microtransaction model (remember how SC2 was going to monetize the arcade?)

Also, received a Blizzard email! It's for Blizzcon =(. Then again best to check the launcher, I recall playing Heroes for like a week before I got the email invite.

I could see it being the case that Blizzard noted the majority of sales on HotS were spend on skins and not to unlock hero's so they believe that just monetizing skins will be enough for Overwatch to be profitable while removing the negative of unlocking and getting more people into the game.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 28 2015 17:16 GMT
#910
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.
It's your boy Guzma!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2015 17:17 GMT
#911
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.

TF2 hats exist.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Superbanana
Profile Joined May 2014
2369 Posts
October 28 2015 17:18 GMT
#912
On October 29 2015 01:50 Plansix wrote:
I find the entire discussion of declaring games failures or successes through the setting of arbitrary metrics super tiresome. It is this circle jerk debate where everyone just sets their own bar and claims the game got there or didn’t make it based on that their own standards.


Thats very unfair of you. Your generalization does not apply.
In PvZ the zerg can make the situation spire out of control but protoss can adept to the situation.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 28 2015 17:18 GMT
#913
On October 29 2015 02:17 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.

TF2 hats exist.

And I never understood it there either. Gun skins, sure, because that's literally what's always in your vision. But a hat you only see on character select and death cams.
It's your boy Guzma!
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
October 28 2015 17:19 GMT
#914
On October 29 2015 02:18 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 02:17 Plansix wrote:
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.

TF2 hats exist.

And I never understood it there either. Gun skins, sure, because that's literally what's always in your vision. But a hat you only see on character select and death cams.


It's not for you to enjoy, it's for everyone else to marvel at.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
October 28 2015 17:21 GMT
#915
On October 29 2015 02:15 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 01:13 Wuster wrote:
On October 28 2015 22:54 Yurie wrote:
On October 28 2015 22:46 iXphobos wrote:
On October 28 2015 22:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:
The other advantage to pick/ban is that when characters are (inevitably) monetized, switching characters mid-game offers a considerable advantage to individuals who have bought more characters. I don't think even the people that somehow believes having more characters in MOBA isn't an advantage would disagree with that.

I doubt Blizzard will change anything, though, because people will accept this advantage as something they just have to put up with.

Blizz said on the last beta streamer event that whatever the payment model will be, all heroes will be available for free for all players from the start.


Oh then it might be interesting. Stopped with LoL and smite due to the unlock systems and stuck to DotA instead. Unlocks and similar things that cause an uneven play-field are the bane of any multi player game. In single player you don't really notice it unless they shove it in your face, you just have more challenge.


I've noticed that Blizzard games tend to use different business models, they really use every opportunity to experiment (for a while it was WoW - subscription, D3 - RMAH / microtransactions, SC2 - eSports, HoTS - unlocks/dlc)

Currently D3 seems to have reverted to traditional, selling game copies outside Asia, so now we have Overwatch looking to try how cosmetic microtransactions solely work out (WoW does have cosmetics too). Seems Blizzard really wants to nail down a microtransaction model (remember how SC2 was going to monetize the arcade?)

Also, received a Blizzard email! It's for Blizzcon =(. Then again best to check the launcher, I recall playing Heroes for like a week before I got the email invite.

I could see it being the case that Blizzard noted the majority of sales on HotS were spend on skins and not to unlock hero's so they believe that just monetizing skins will be enough for Overwatch to be profitable while removing the negative of unlocking and getting more people into the game.

Its possible that they notice that there is a huge potential to get a large portion of the market, if it kicks off then other companies might attempt to copy them. This is the fastest way to get as many people to play the game, by making it F2P with no limitations on actual gameplay.
WriterXiao8~~
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2015 17:21 GMT
#916
On October 29 2015 02:18 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 02:17 Plansix wrote:
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.

TF2 hats exist.

And I never understood it there either. Gun skins, sure, because that's literally what's always in your vision. But a hat you only see on character select and death cams.

And people love them. I would also point out the most cosmetics in real life can't be seen by the person wearing them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
October 28 2015 17:22 GMT
#917
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.


plenty of different ways to monetize

weapon skins

different attack effects

different character voice or 1 liners
E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-28 17:26:54
October 28 2015 17:25 GMT
#918
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.

I never understood skins but I learned that people are crazy about them. So I am not underestimating this. True, being first person seems to be a disadvantage here. But then again even in cs weapon skins are a huge thing. So in some way Blizz will surely take advantage of this.

On October 29 2015 02:21 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 02:18 Requizen wrote:
On October 29 2015 02:17 Plansix wrote:
On October 29 2015 02:16 Requizen wrote:
Skins in a FPS don't even make sense. You can't even see it so it doesn't matter.

TF2 hats exist.

And I never understood it there either. Gun skins, sure, because that's literally what's always in your vision. But a hat you only see on character select and death cams.

And people love them. I would also point out the most cosmetics in real life can't be seen by the person wearing them.

Very good point!
Off-season = best season
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
October 28 2015 17:27 GMT
#919
People don't just buy expensive shoes in order to put them on and say those are so damn nice shoes to themselves.
WriterXiao8~~
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2015 17:27 GMT
#920
People like to dress up action figures. Its the exact same appeal of customizing a WH40K army or making a costume for Halloween.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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