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Please be advised:

We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable.

After that we will require new threads to discuss topics.

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FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-16 12:13:07
February 16 2016 12:12 GMT
#2241
Maybe its even a good idea to not make every hero take 3000 games to even play decent, when you have a game that needs you to switch between heroes each map ...

Hope they fix this bug on towers where you can squeeze yourself under a stair and shoot at people x3.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 16 2016 13:56 GMT
#2242
On February 16 2016 19:59 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2016 08:24 Plansix wrote:
Ah, the skill cap discussion has returned. Where some rando comes in and declares the "skill cap of the game is low". As if skill cap was some agreed upon term and a tried and true method of measuring it existed. A metric created by fans of games to shit on other games they think are worse and never used by game designers ever.

"Excuse me fans of a upcoming video game, I am here to tell you all about that game and pass my opinion off as accepted fact. Please argue against me."

Pretty much sums of every discussion of skill cap ever posted. Some person doesn't like a game, shows up and tells people who like it that its for babies.


Except he actually explains why he believe the skill cap is low. Maybe he is wrong and maybe its not relevant, but you should explain so instead of making another one of your sarcastic comments that focusses on the man instead of the ball.

I did. I dismissed it as a useless metric created for people to throw shade on games and claim they are for “casuals”.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-16 14:33:00
February 16 2016 14:32 GMT
#2243
No you didn't. In your own words, you dismissed the skill cap as an idea, but you didn't explain why you think he is wrong or why skill cap is not relevent. In any case Overwatch IS designed for casual gaming as the main aim of the design team with no real impetus towards being artificially challenging. I view that as a good thing. You view it as a bad thing, but that doesn't mean you get a free pass to claim something that you infact did not argue against.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-16 14:45:32
February 16 2016 14:44 GMT
#2244
Skill cap is a vague, subjective, non-scientific metric created used in internet argument to discuss how a game isn’t build for “hardcore gamers”. The term itself is ridiculous, because it implies an upper ceiling that the player can influence the outcome of an encounter. Although that exists in the abstract, no person has the ability to take into account all the ways a player could influence a game through casual observation or even playing the game. You may gain a vague understanding, but that is the limit without careful study and piles of data.

With the player and observers limited ability to assess all the possibilities, the concept of declaring a game has a measurable skill ceiling is comical. Or the idea that we could measure games against each other for their “skill cap”. And those comparisons almost always are how the entrench favorite in a genre has a higher skill cap than the new game.

Its a shitty term used to add weight to mostly subjective arguments, being passed off as fact.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
February 16 2016 14:55 GMT
#2245
I feel like the skill cap in this game is immense. Not only can you become extremely mechanical at the game but then you also have to understand the team work aspect. Either way the game is extremely fun. I am an old ass man I rarely get excited to run home from work and play a game but I've been playing at least 3 hours of Overwatch a day and I can't wait to get off work and get home and play it.
Wat
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
February 16 2016 15:01 GMT
#2246
Also how are you guys attacking the game? Are you "maining" on someone or trying to try out the roster? I've been trying to play two heroes a day after I was exclusively playing S76 for the first few days. Yesterday was Mcree and Zarya. It took me at least 4 games to get the muscle memory down for Mcree (E, RMB, Shift, RMB) but jesus as long as I land my E I can basically solo anyone. Zarya also felt like the best pub tank out there. The only tank I have left to really try out is D'Va and I feel like they all seem to really have their place. I really like the design on the tank heroes.
Wat
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 16 2016 15:24 GMT
#2247
I tend to attack this sort of game in stages.
  • Stage 1: Just try out every character in turn and see what they can do.
  • Stage 2: Gravitate toward whichever characters I play the least horribly.
  • Stage 3: Master all the things.

I don't really "main" characters, and that idea is also a little backwards in a game like Overwatch. You can and should master characters, but there are lots of situations where your favorite is simply going to be more of a liability than an asset.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
February 16 2016 18:27 GMT
#2248
On February 17 2016 00:24 Seuss wrote: You can and should master characters, but there are lots of situations where your favorite is simply going to be more of a liability than an asset.


Tell that to my team mates in solo queue!
Wat
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16935 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-16 18:59:19
February 16 2016 18:56 GMT
#2249
based on uncle mike's latest comments its pretty clear Blizzard is designing Overwatch to be a popular esport.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-02-08-morhaime-you-cant-really-distinguish-esports-from-game-development-anymore

which means Overwatch must appeal to hardcore players for it to succeed.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
February 16 2016 19:09 GMT
#2250
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.
Wat
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
February 16 2016 19:11 GMT
#2251
Been watching some spectated matches on Youtube. Maybe I just don't like FPS spectators, but holy crap is it hard to see what's going on. That might need to be cleaned up a bit if it wants to be a spectator esport.
It's your boy Guzma!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 16 2016 19:18 GMT
#2252
On February 17 2016 04:09 Tenks wrote:
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.

I doubt they will have anything but a ranking system like hearthstone. Blizzard does not like viable MMR. And as someone who plays dota, its a pretty weird metric and easily abused.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-16 19:19:40
February 16 2016 19:19 GMT
#2253
On February 17 2016 04:11 Requizen wrote:
Been watching some spectated matches on Youtube. Maybe I just don't like FPS spectators, but holy crap is it hard to see what's going on. That might need to be cleaned up a bit if it wants to be a spectator esport.


Yeah there are a few things they need:

Move portraits to the left side
Add HP bars/ultimate indicator by portrait
Add HP bars floating overhead when damage is taken (like in game)

Blizzard did say this spectator client they know is pretty bare bones
Wat
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
February 16 2016 19:21 GMT
#2254
On February 17 2016 04:18 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2016 04:09 Tenks wrote:
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.

I doubt they will have anything but a ranking system like hearthstone. Blizzard does not like viable MMR. And as someone who plays dota, its a pretty weird metric and easily abused.


I don't know if I agree with you. They've admitted the ranking system they've used in Heroes of the Storm is a failure since it is too hard to distinguish rank1 from "actually good" rank1. I thought they've even said they'd like a deeper and more transparent ranking system for this game.
Wat
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 16 2016 19:25 GMT
#2255
On February 17 2016 04:21 Tenks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2016 04:18 Plansix wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:09 Tenks wrote:
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.

I doubt they will have anything but a ranking system like hearthstone. Blizzard does not like viable MMR. And as someone who plays dota, its a pretty weird metric and easily abused.


I don't know if I agree with you. They've admitted the ranking system they've used in Heroes of the Storm is a failure since it is too hard to distinguish rank1 from "actually good" rank1. I thought they've even said they'd like a deeper and more transparent ranking system for this game.

Visible MMR is any team game is illusive and I wouldn’t including it just because it’s what people think is good. Dota has it and its pretty meh. Its something people grind. I guess they could claim to be improving because the number is getting higher. But in reality, most play just plateau and that is it. Seasons, rankings and awards are more Blizzard’s style.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
February 16 2016 19:28 GMT
#2256
On February 17 2016 04:25 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2016 04:21 Tenks wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:18 Plansix wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:09 Tenks wrote:
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.

I doubt they will have anything but a ranking system like hearthstone. Blizzard does not like viable MMR. And as someone who plays dota, its a pretty weird metric and easily abused.


I don't know if I agree with you. They've admitted the ranking system they've used in Heroes of the Storm is a failure since it is too hard to distinguish rank1 from "actually good" rank1. I thought they've even said they'd like a deeper and more transparent ranking system for this game.

Visible MMR is any team game is illusive and I wouldn’t including it just because it’s what people think is good. Dota has it and its pretty meh. Its something people grind. I guess they could claim to be improving because the number is getting higher. But in reality, most play just plateau and that is it. Seasons, rankings and awards are more Blizzard’s style.


I don't necessarily disagree. I'd love it if they took the Starcraft2's enhanced ladder and plugged it into this game. I don't play LoL but from what I understand they have a pretty refined version of the SC2 ladder for team games. The only complaint I hear consistently there is the promotion games are too important.

Either way ranking is important to me and it IS important to the long-term viability of the game but right now the game is just pure fun to play
Wat
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-17 01:37:35
February 17 2016 01:36 GMT
#2257
On February 17 2016 04:25 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2016 04:21 Tenks wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:18 Plansix wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:09 Tenks wrote:
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.

I doubt they will have anything but a ranking system like hearthstone. Blizzard does not like viable MMR. And as someone who plays dota, its a pretty weird metric and easily abused.


I don't know if I agree with you. They've admitted the ranking system they've used in Heroes of the Storm is a failure since it is too hard to distinguish rank1 from "actually good" rank1. I thought they've even said they'd like a deeper and more transparent ranking system for this game.

Visible MMR is any team game is illusive and I wouldn’t including it just because it’s what people think is good. Dota has it and its pretty meh. Its something people grind. I guess they could claim to be improving because the number is getting higher. But in reality, most play just plateau and that is it. Seasons, rankings and awards are more Blizzard’s style.

If the number is getting higher they are in fact improving.
Other than that the beauty of visible MMR is exactly that you dont have to grind it in contrast to the ladder points sc2 or LoL use. And those ladder points are way more illusive than MMR which is actually the most accurate numerical representation of a player's skill available.
Off-season = best season
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21945 Posts
February 17 2016 01:41 GMT
#2258
On February 17 2016 10:36 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2016 04:25 Plansix wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:21 Tenks wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:18 Plansix wrote:
On February 17 2016 04:09 Tenks wrote:
I feel the only thing missing for the "hardcores" is a ranked system with pretty visible MMR. Which I'm sure is basically #1 on Blizzards to-do list.

I doubt they will have anything but a ranking system like hearthstone. Blizzard does not like viable MMR. And as someone who plays dota, its a pretty weird metric and easily abused.


I don't know if I agree with you. They've admitted the ranking system they've used in Heroes of the Storm is a failure since it is too hard to distinguish rank1 from "actually good" rank1. I thought they've even said they'd like a deeper and more transparent ranking system for this game.

Visible MMR is any team game is illusive and I wouldn’t including it just because it’s what people think is good. Dota has it and its pretty meh. Its something people grind. I guess they could claim to be improving because the number is getting higher. But in reality, most play just plateau and that is it. Seasons, rankings and awards are more Blizzard’s style.

If the number is getting higher they are in fact improving.
Other than that the beauty of visible MMR is exactly that you dont have to grind it in contrast to the ladder points sc2 or LoL use. And those ladder points are way more illusive than MMR which is actually the most accurate numerical representation of a player's skill available.

actually I would argue a division system like LoL is more accurate then MMR.
MMR by its very nature oscillates up and down around a mean. Human perception then dictates that we are as good as the high point rather then the mean. By disguising the ups and downs and showing the mean you are actually making MMR more accurate.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16935 Posts
February 17 2016 02:54 GMT
#2259
More Beta waves teasing going on.

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
AbouSV
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany1278 Posts
February 17 2016 10:24 GMT
#2260
On February 11 2016 23:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2016 19:02 AbouSV wrote:
Still no Beta here.
Blizzard hates me, I never got in for LotV and HotS before the open beta, and still nothing for Overwatch either


in my experience and the experience of my friends.. your beta chances go way, way up if you attend a Blizzcon. This is not possible for many people. That said, the chances to get in any beta go up a lot if you buy the Blizzcon virtual ticket.

An even better reason to go for it then.

On a related note, I remembered that I always received blizzard email very late. For instance I just received the one for the 'upcoming' lunar festival on Heroes.
Could there be a link?
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