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Waoow this thread in the past day.
Sure there is more emphasis on this game being an "esport" as blizz statd,, doesn't mean there has to be a ranked mode (at least, straight away). After all, you can still create private lobbies for scrims, pugs, officials etc. Ranked mode is just "more srs" pub.
I'm sure they want to just find the best way to implement it, as opposed to having it same as normal mm but with visible rank/rating and a name change.
I agree that there needs to be a better scoreboard, better fov, some form of hud customisation (movable and/or removable objects), a kill feed, and a much better spectator hud. I think that blizzard are just focusing on how the game plays out itself first, and will hopefully soon work on those features.
Despite the shortcomings, the game at its core is fun, especially when I can sometimes play 5 plus heroes per game depending on the situation.
Excuse the typos and/or grammar - mobile =[
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There shouldn't be a problem for a ranked mode if all it takes into account is whether you won or not. Every person in a team has influence over whether they can win or not. Sure, there will be games where other peoplea re really good or really bad, but it averages itself out over many games. A ranked mode makes a lot of sense, even if it is hidden, because it rewards thouse who can teamwork with others by teaming them up with higher skilled and better teamwork players to play with and against.
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Ranked mode does nothing but show you a number already in the game and let you wave your epeen in other peoples faces.
It is entirely unneeded for an esports or competitive scene to function and adds nothing to that scene.
Kill feeds/screen clutter/usable spectator mode are things I care infinitely more about.
I would be perfectly fine if the game did not get more game modes then it has now. Especially if those extra game modes create separate matchmaking systems to split up the player base.
Heck SC only has 1 game mode.
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On November 25 2015 08:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Ranked mode does nothing but show you a number already in the game and let you wave your epeen in other peoples faces.
It is entirely unneeded for an esports or competitive scene to function and adds nothing to that scene.
Kill feeds/screen clutter/usable spectator mode are things I care infinitely more about.
I would be perfectly fine if the game did not get more game modes then it has now. Especially if those extra game modes create separate matchmaking systems to split up the player base.
Heck SC only has 1 game mode.
or..you know let you track your progression or lack thereof.
Also, I dont think future esports should model themselves after SC. However you could have used League of Legends as a game with only 1 competitive game mode and I would have agreed.
Also I dont understand how its unnecessary, when it can be used to find good players for future teams/organizations.
Like someone else stated, its about averaging out over time. Yeah you will have bad teammates and good teammates, but the only constant is you, and your skill will eventually lead to results that accurately portray your skill levels.
People who are naturally competitive and enjoy the competitive aspect of gaming, generally appreciate having a ranking system.
Not all of us grew up with participation trophies and not keeping score.
I know for myself and all of my friends, ranked mode (when offered) is the only mode we play, because we enjoy competitive gaming.
When there is visible way to track progress it gives players a way to set a long term goal, and eventually either achieve or fail at achieving said goal. It provides longevity for players who have that competitive mindset.
I dont understand the wanting a ranked mode to not exist... if rankings hurt your feelings, then just dont queue up for ranked, you can still play normals. Noone is going to argue for "Please no normals! We want ranked matches only!"
So I dont understand why people want to deny other players what they want, even though they gain nothing from denying those players whats important to them.
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On November 25 2015 08:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Ranked mode does nothing but show you a number already in the game and let you wave your epeen in other peoples faces.
It is entirely unneeded for an esports or competitive scene to function and adds nothing to that scene.
Kill feeds/screen clutter/usable spectator mode are things I care infinitely more about.
I would be perfectly fine if the game did not get more game modes then it has now. Especially if those extra game modes create separate matchmaking systems to split up the player base.
Heck SC only has 1 game mode.
I hope they implement king of the hill. I think it's something that could work really well if implemented correctly - TF2 style.
I can't think of any other game modes that they could possibly implement that'd work.
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On November 25 2015 08:41 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 08:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Ranked mode does nothing but show you a number already in the game and let you wave your epeen in other peoples faces.
It is entirely unneeded for an esports or competitive scene to function and adds nothing to that scene.
Kill feeds/screen clutter/usable spectator mode are things I care infinitely more about.
I would be perfectly fine if the game did not get more game modes then it has now. Especially if those extra game modes create separate matchmaking systems to split up the player base.
Heck SC only has 1 game mode. Not all of us grew up with participation trophies and not keeping score. .
LOL very nice elitism. Don't care much for ranked mode, means I grew up with participation trophies and not keeping score. I'm an incredibly competitive person, I'm just a casual gamer.
That being said the rest of your post is spot on. If they want to add ranked I'm not going to complain. I also don't care if there is no ranked mode though
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On November 25 2015 08:41 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 08:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Ranked mode does nothing but show you a number already in the game and let you wave your epeen in other peoples faces.
It is entirely unneeded for an esports or competitive scene to function and adds nothing to that scene.
Kill feeds/screen clutter/usable spectator mode are things I care infinitely more about.
I would be perfectly fine if the game did not get more game modes then it has now. Especially if those extra game modes create separate matchmaking systems to split up the player base.
Heck SC only has 1 game mode. or..you know let you track your progression or lack thereof. Also, I dont think future esports should model themselves after SC. However you could have used League of Legends as a game with only 1 competitive game mode and I would have agreed. Also I dont understand how its unnecessary, when it can be used to find good players for future teams/organizations. Like someone else stated, its about averaging out over time. Yeah you will have bad teammates and good teammates, but the only constant is you, and your skill will eventually lead to results that accurately portray your skill levels. People who are naturally competitive and enjoy the competitive aspect of gaming, generally appreciate having a ranking system. Not all of us grew up with participation trophies and not keeping score. I know for myself and all of my friends, ranked mode (when offered) is the only mode we play, because we enjoy competitive gaming. When there is visible way to track progress it gives players a way to set a long term goal, and eventually either achieve or fail at achieving said goal. It provides longevity for players who have that competitive mindset. I dont understand the wanting a ranked mode to not exist... if rankings hurt your feelings, then just dont queue up for ranked, you can still play normals. Noone is going to argue for "Please no normals! We want ranked matches only!" So I dont understand why people want to deny other players what they want, even though they gain nothing from denying those players whats important to them.
I wont care one way or another if they add ranked mode, I should have been more clear about that but I still believe that all that ranked mode does is show you a number to wave around at people compared to 'normal'.
Now if they add a 6v6 premade ladder then I will say that adds something where you can measure yourself as a competitive team against others. but for solo play in a team game? Nah, not bothered one way or another.
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how are people defending no ranked mode in 2015? Game will be DoA if it releases without one.
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On November 25 2015 09:48 the`postman wrote:
how are people defending no ranked mode in 2015? Game will be DoA if it releases without one.
DOA is some hyperbole
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On November 25 2015 10:42 yookstah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 09:48 the`postman wrote:
how are people defending no ranked mode in 2015? Game will be DoA if it releases without one. DOA is some hyperbole
When its all you got, you drop some hyperbole.
On November 25 2015 08:48 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 08:41 MaestroSC wrote:On November 25 2015 08:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Ranked mode does nothing but show you a number already in the game and let you wave your epeen in other peoples faces.
It is entirely unneeded for an esports or competitive scene to function and adds nothing to that scene.
Kill feeds/screen clutter/usable spectator mode are things I care infinitely more about.
I would be perfectly fine if the game did not get more game modes then it has now. Especially if those extra game modes create separate matchmaking systems to split up the player base.
Heck SC only has 1 game mode. Not all of us grew up with participation trophies and not keeping score. . LOL very nice elitism. Don't care much for ranked mode, means I grew up with participation trophies and not keeping score. I'm an incredibly competitive person, I'm just a casual gamer. That being said the rest of your post is spot on. If they want to add ranked I'm not going to complain. I also don't care if there is no ranked mode though
How will I know if I enjoyed the game if I don't see a number go up after I win?
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On November 24 2015 10:15 yookstah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 06:51 Jaeger wrote:On November 23 2015 02:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 23 2015 01:50 Jaeger wrote:
The skill cap on almost all the heroes in this game feels so incredibly low. Can you elaborate on that? Compare Pharah to TF2 solider. With Pharah I have basically one button that does a vertical rocket jump on the exact same trajectory every time. Soldier rocket jumping by contract is incredibly nuanced and gives very different jumps depending on the timing angles and surfaces involved (not to even mention duck tapping). Instead of being limited by a cooldown there is a tradeoff. I can do smaller jumps that leave me with hp to fight, but give up some height advantage distance covered and speed. I can chain jumps to move me further and faster but arrive with less health and less potential damage (less rockets in clip). One takes a minute to master, the other takes hundreds of hours. I can do similar comparisons for pretty much any clone class. Most of the ults involve limited to zero skill. Some like the wall hack ult actively lower required skill. The game is fun, but I'm not sure there is enough here to keep me interested. This isn't coL jaeger?
It is/was.
On November 24 2015 10:15 yookstah wrote:Sure you have the movement aspect which has a lot of depth in TF2, but in reality you don't really NEED to be that good at jumping. The better you are, sure, the more variety of things you can do in TF2 (faster rollouts, big skip jumps to catch someone escaping, ctap, edge bug). I'll also say that you have to be more careful with your ammo in TF2 since you reload the whole clip in OW all the time, as opposed to one at a time, but don't forget the splash damage of a rocket in tf2 was the equivalent of a nuclear missile.
The ammo is a good point. Since reloading subsequent rockets in TF2 is significantly faster than reloading the first rocket you have to judge if you can get the job done with one rocket or need more in many situations as [load, shoot] is faster than [load, load, shoot] is faster than [load, shoot, load, shoot].
It's these subtleties that IMO make the games interesting and lead to the ability to outplay through more than just raw aim and focus fire.
It's the reason I was drawn to follow broodwar and now dota as well.
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This game will probably be DOA.
The gameplay is good but nothing thats going to blow you out of the water. There were plenty of desync issues probably related to the high ping and tick rate issue. Hooks not connecting and then randomly pulling characters you weren't even aiming for, getting shot while running behind cover, people not getting resurrected, and even more with a few hours of play.
You can't even turn off the music unless you edit your .ini file. Seems to be missing a lot of basic stuff. It's all the same stuff I've felt before with SC2. The game feels empty outside of play/find match. Not even a server browser listing or anything.
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You need a Ranked mode, solo and team, for those casual tryhards like me. I don't have much time, but when i game, i'll give it my all!
I need a goodfreaking ladder tracking my progress!
And there are soooo much more like me. And we WILL lose interest in a game where there is no ranked, that i can promise.
And a lower playerbase will also mean a lower viewerbase! Ofc those are often not identical, but still
And a lower viewerbase WILL hinder the development of a competitive esport'ish scene. Fact
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And there are soooo much more like me. And we WILL lose interest in a game where there is no ranked, that i can promise
Sure I mean we all have know that this is the case. In games such as LOL and CS:GO, players can opt between ranked or unranked mode, and the majority of the players (when they have it unlocked) prefer ranked as it gives them the opportunity to set goals and track progress.
Quite surprised that Blizzard has prioritized ranked mode this low. In general I am quite worried for how the game will perform on a non ingame/mechanics-perspective.
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On November 25 2015 18:41 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +And there are soooo much more like me. And we WILL lose interest in a game where there is no ranked, that i can promise Sure I mean we all have know that this is the case. In games such as LOL and CS:GO, players can opt between ranked or unranked mode, and the majority of the players (when they have it unlocked) prefer ranked as it gives them the opportunity to set goals and track progress. Quite surprised that Blizzard has prioritized ranked mode this low. In general I am quite worried for how the game will perform on a non ingame/mechanics-perspective.
Citation needed. I don't know about CS but I don't just believe more LoL players play ranked then unranked.
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On November 25 2015 19:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 18:41 Hider wrote:And there are soooo much more like me. And we WILL lose interest in a game where there is no ranked, that i can promise Sure I mean we all have know that this is the case. In games such as LOL and CS:GO, players can opt between ranked or unranked mode, and the majority of the players (when they have it unlocked) prefer ranked as it gives them the opportunity to set goals and track progress. Quite surprised that Blizzard has prioritized ranked mode this low. In general I am quite worried for how the game will perform on a non ingame/mechanics-perspective. Citation needed. I don't know about CS but I don't just believe more LoL players play ranked then unranked.
No more people play unranked because it takes hundreds of games to unlock it. Hence why I wrote that after they have unlocked it. Also the correct metric to look at is also amount of time played ranked vs unranked rather than the amount of players. E.g. if you have have an unranked player playing 1 game a year, he will be less valuable than someone who plays multiple hours per day.
At last, just the fact that there are players - regardless of the exact numbers - who had a choice between ranked and unranked prooves that ranked has some type of positive value on the game.
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On November 25 2015 18:41 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +And there are soooo much more like me. And we WILL lose interest in a game where there is no ranked, that i can promise Sure I mean we all have know that this is the case. In games such as LOL and CS:GO, players can opt between ranked or unranked mode, and the majority of the players (when they have it unlocked) prefer ranked as it gives them the opportunity to set goals and track progress.
i wouldnt be so sure of that. back when i was playing lol, the vast majority of my friends almost exclusively played unranked. i think this changed a bit after they introduced the league system which basically hides your relative standing and decives you on your progress, but there are still a lot of people who have no intention to compete.
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On November 25 2015 19:25 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 18:41 Hider wrote:And there are soooo much more like me. And we WILL lose interest in a game where there is no ranked, that i can promise Sure I mean we all have know that this is the case. In games such as LOL and CS:GO, players can opt between ranked or unranked mode, and the majority of the players (when they have it unlocked) prefer ranked as it gives them the opportunity to set goals and track progress. i wouldnt be so sure of that. back when i was playing lol, the vast majority of my friends almost exclusively played unranked. i think this changed a bit after they introduced the league system which basically hides your relative standing and decives you on your progress, but there are still a lot of people who have no intention to compete.
Yes just checked, total games played is roughly 3:1 in favor of unranked vs ranked.
Though when you account for the lvl 30 requirement, it's probably more even.
Anyway, my point still stands that having a choice is valuable.
And it's also worth noting that in LOL playing unranked still adds some type of progress (you unlock IP). It's definitely important that OW finds some type of system to reward the most casual, semicasual and more competitive players.
I think CS:GO does that wonderfully with skins (that you then can go bet on --> creates synergy with esport scene) and ranked games as well.
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I dont get why they cant put the system in before the release date.
We still have quite a number of months to go and they are more or less finished with releasing new characters.
What are they going to spent rest of the time doing other than polishing what they have now?
Why not just give us a ranked more in beta to get feedback and polish it for release?
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On November 25 2015 19:36 ETisME wrote:
I dont get why they cant put the system in before the release date.
We still have quite a number of months to go and they are more or less finished with releasing new characters.
What are they going to spent rest of the time doing other than polishing what they have now?
Why not just give us a ranked more in beta to get feedback and polish it for release?
If they are serious about esports they need a good robust spectator client and they have basically nothing atm on that front.
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EPT
