EPTWoD raids seem so much better to me overall.
[wow] Warlords of Draenor - Page 541
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
WoD raids seem so much better to me overall. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
I am totally with lestye on ToC. ToC was such a terrible raid after the awesome Ulduar They came right out and said it was a filler raid to prevent people waiting so long for ICC And it is not like ICC afterwards was great ICC was one of the best raids in the games history though, especially at the time | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On August 01 2015 19:30 Cyro wrote: They came right out and said it was a filler raid to prevent people waiting so long for ICC Yeah and the whole concept of filling a content void with bad raid content just to have something is a terrible one. Because as a raider you are kinda forced to play the bad content anyway since you need the gear for the next raid. Also it kills the raid before. Which is probably why this was done never again. | ||
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lestye
United States4280 Posts
They came right out and said it was a filler raid to prevent people waiting so long for ICC That's not an excuse. "Oh excuse us, we're going to give you guys absolute shit content, but we're saying it ahead of time so plz forgive us." It shouldnt be like that at all. ICC was one of the best raids in the games history though, especially at the time Absolutely not. The consensus was that it was a lazy raid, and the premise was just stupid. We just killed an Old God and they had us doing an awkward tournament for god knows that reason and the end boss was a boss we already killed before. The fights weren't that good or challenging, it was exhausting to run 4 times a week, the story had nothing, it just wasnt very good and I will say without any hesitation it is/was the worst raid ever to be released. Not to mention the horrible loot system which burnt a lot of us out. Neither method seems able to give it to us, so i want to enjoy the gap as much as possible. We'll see in 5 days what the timing is and promises are for the new expansion Yeah, we'll see. Ultimately no matter what, WoD was extremely lacking initially as a boxed product, if it had a few more dungeons, not destroyed the incentive to do dungeons by removing badges, had some new arenas and battlegrounds, I'd honestly give it a pass even though its super disappointing overall. For the time being, its just crap. If the next expansion has a new class, and the above, and 30 bosses over 2-3 tiers with the next expansion coming in earlyish-mid 2017, that'd be ideal. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Absolutely not. The consensus was that it was a lazy raid, and the premise was just stupid. We just killed an Old God and they had us doing an awkward tournament for god knows that reason They make a huge deal over selecting the best champions to assault ICC. Even at 2-3 points in the ICC raid they go over that. The gauntlet into frost wing, the lich king dialogue during the fight at least. I'd personally rather have filler content than no content but i can see why you might feel that way. If we had a TOTC between t17 and hellfire citadel, an 8-12 month wait now wouldn't be as bad. | ||
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Agh
United States1110 Posts
On August 01 2015 19:30 Cyro wrote: They came right out and said it was a filler raid to prevent people waiting so long for ICC ICC was one of the best raids in the games history though, especially at the time Seems like an opinion based on your nostalgia. Having played and seen all content from start to finish (A good portion with top10 guilds at the time) I can safely say ICC is average at best. The 'at the time' just makes it worse. Remembering everything at the time that it was released, the only raids I would rate below ICC up until that point are: MC - it was put together in a handful of days and shows. AQ20 - Felt unfinished and rushed. All of the bosses looked like glorified trash mobs. WrathNaxx - Any reintroduced content would be on this list. Naxx40 was already mediocre to begin with, to reintroduce it solely because the majority of the playerbase had never seen it (and also being a rehash). I honestly feel this idea/stance is the spark that ignited the decline of WoW today. ToC - Doesn't need a description. So discounting VoA, There were 16 raids out of 20 that were better or equal to ICC. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Seems like an opinion based on your nostalgia. It's my current opinions, i don't enjoy clearing a raid on release week and i have never enjoyed it. I played WS last year, if a boss dies in less than 5-10 wipes when i first see it then it just feels like a waste of time. So discounting VoA, There were 16 raids out of 20 that were better or equal to ICC. Most of the player base didn't enjoy progressing through Sunwell for 3+ months, though. Quality is very subjective and depends on a lot of things that some people value and others do not | ||
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lestye
United States4280 Posts
On August 01 2015 19:47 Cyro wrote: They make a huge deal over selecting the best champions to assault ICC. Even at 2-3 points in the ICC raid they go over that. The gauntlet into frost wing, the lich king dialogue during the fight at least. I'd personally rather have filler content than no content but i can see why you might feel that way. If we had a TOTC between t17 and hellfire citadel, an 8-12 month wait now wouldn't be as bad. Except there wasnt any attunement or anything like that, anyone could go into ICC. The story doesn't say that the TOC Champions go into ICC at all. LK's monologue works WITHOUT the ToC at all because of how many times you've encountered him through the quests and he just lets you go. It wasnt just that 1 LK encounter, it was everything in Northerend. It was just a waste of time. And I reject that having complete dog shit would be better, because that dogshit isnt supplemental, it takes place OVER the content, so Im no longer farming the actual good instances, im doing the dogshit one. Thats why to choose it is lame. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
"I don't like the lore of WOTLK" it takes place OVER the content Not entirely, but way too much because of WoW's very high gear scaling compared to other popular MMO's. That's an ongoing design problem IMO. | ||
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lestye
United States4280 Posts
On August 01 2015 21:08 Cyro wrote: So TL;DR "I don't like the lore of WOTLK" Not entirely, but way too much because of WoW's very high gear scaling compared to other popular MMO's. That's an ongoing design problem IMO. The lore in WOTLK is fine, but The LIch King interacts with you like 10 times outside of ToC. That part was completely unnecessary. You could take ToC out, and that line would still make 100% sense. It's all over the content, it's all over the continent. ToC was pointless. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
It's all over the content, it's all over the continent. ToC was pointless. I don't really remember the lore about not wanting to assault ICC head on with an army that could be turned against them before TOTC era~ we even had wrathgate etc. They repeated it a bunch of times in 3.2 and 3.3 though | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On August 01 2015 19:43 lestye wrote: That's not an excuse. "Oh excuse us, we're going to give you guys absolute shit content, but we're saying it ahead of time so plz forgive us." It shouldnt be like that at all. Absolutely not. The consensus was that it was a lazy raid, and the premise was just stupid. We just killed an Old God and they had us doing an awkward tournament for god knows that reason and the end boss was a boss we already killed before. The fights weren't that good or challenging, it was exhausting to run 4 times a week, the story had nothing, it just wasnt very good and I will say without any hesitation it is/was the worst raid ever to be released. Not to mention the horrible loot system which burnt a lot of us out. Yeah, we'll see. Ultimately no matter what, WoD was extremely lacking initially as a boxed product, if it had a few more dungeons, not destroyed the incentive to do dungeons by removing badges, had some new arenas and battlegrounds, I'd honestly give it a pass even though its super disappointing overall. For the time being, its just crap. If the next expansion has a new class, and the above, and 30 bosses over 2-3 tiers with the next expansion coming in earlyish-mid 2017, that'd be ideal. I dont think anyone wanted to see Anub'Arak who was supposed to be one of the strongest undead period die in a 5man dungeon thats dumb. I didnt wanna see Nerzhul die in a 5man but sadly that happened too, feel like they coulda did more with that. personally really didnt like wrath at all. much preferred the cata raids in comparison, esp to the t 1 1.5 2 shit(not exact tiers but cant remember) things they have now tbh. pre dragon soul i mean. firelands was a great raid, and the 2 1/2(1/2 being TO4W) raids in cata were pretty great too. | ||
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Folca
2235 Posts
also, fastest way to get gold so i dont have to pay for gay ass subscription? | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
If that's how you're feeling though, you could probably do another game, or something totally different instead... | ||
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lestye
United States4280 Posts
On August 01 2015 21:32 Cyro wrote: I don't really remember the lore about not wanting to assault ICC head on with an army that could be turned against them before TOTC era~ we even had wrathgate etc. They repeated it a bunch of times in 3.2 and 3.3 though Lich King shows up and lets you dick around and live several times through the quests. Then we find out why he was dicking around. You did not need TOC to sell that point. It makes perfect sense even without that 1 appearance. I dont think anyone wanted to see Anub'Arak who was supposed to be one of the strongest undead period die in a 5man dungeon thats dumb. I didnt wanna see Nerzhul die in a 5man but sadly that happened too, feel like they coulda did more with that. personally really didnt like wrath at all. much preferred the cata raids in comparison, esp to the t 1 1.5 2 shit(not exact tiers but cant remember) things they have now tbh. I get that, but I also don't want to see us destroy bosses, we confirm that they're dead, and then they just bring em back for kicks. Like, Teron was tasteful in that regard, we never got to actually saw him die, same with Nerzhul, if Alternate Nerzhul had some role in Hellfire or whatever, that'd be acceptable because his death was ambiguous. Or how they brought back Kel'Thuzard. We never destroyed his phyllactery in Vanilla, so bringing him back was fair game in Wrath imo. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Lich King shows up and lets you dick around and live several times through the quests. Then we find out why he was dicking around. You did not need TOC to sell that point. It makes perfect sense even without that 1 appearance. Sure, because he wants to raise YOU, he thinks that he can beat the strongest champions. That's still not reason to assault ICC with every single hero that can make it to northrend. The whole idea was to take the champions that he couldn't beat and raise so that plan wouldn't work (only it almost got turned around in the last fight) It'll probably take at least a month to go from scratch to making enough to sustain endless. You can take 15-30 minutes a day to kill the 4 rares and get ~1.33 medallions which sell for ~5k each still. That'll pay for a token on EU in a week or so. | ||
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lestye
United States4280 Posts
On August 02 2015 11:16 Cyro wrote: Sure, because he wants to raise YOU, he thinks that he can beat the strongest champions. That's still not reason to assault ICC with every single hero that can make it to northrend. The whole idea was to take the champions that he couldn't beat and raise so that plan wouldn't work (only it almost got turned around in the last fight) You can take 15-30 minutes a day to kill the 4 rares and get ~1.33 medallions which sell for ~5k each still. That'll pay for a token on EU in a week or so. How does that matter? They ended up taking everyone anyway, including from other factions. It's not like Canonically, ONLY 10 or 25 people showed up. And the idea is that he COULD beat everyone, which he did very easily, the whole twist was that he was toying with you the entire time so he can raise you. You dont need that dogshit raid to tell that story, it was absolutely and utterly necessary. And even if was necessary, unless the twist was that the Argent Tournament idiot whose idea it was, was working with the LK to start the tournament, it was completely pointless in the end. The result is the same, the champions would have went through ICC all the same with or without the tournament. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
It's not like Canonically, ONLY 10 or 25 people showed up That's pretty much the canon they established in 3.2 and 3.3. Maybe not 10 or 25 but very few. So I finally logged in and pugged some normal HFC because I hadn't touched HFC since the PTR and wanted to see all the fights. Is it worth bothering to do mythic or should I just wait till the next content patch / expansion. You kinda need the ring for mythic progression unless you want to play without a huge advantage. That will take you approximately 5 weeks of clearing all bosses | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 02 2015 16:37 Cyro wrote: That's pretty much the canon they established in 3.2 and 3.3. Maybe not 10 or 25 but very few. You kinda need the ring for mythic progression unless you want to play without a huge advantage. That will take you approximately 5 weeks of clearing all bosses I've got a spot if I ever actually ask for it with my realm's top guild so I can probably see the encounters they have on farm at this point. Its just a question of if the encounters are different / engaging enough to bother. | ||
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