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United Kingdom20289 Posts
On July 30 2015 06:14 Gorsameth wrote:
Subs have nothing to do with this (not subs since 6.0 anyway.
Blizzard was very clear when WoD launched that this would be a 1 year expansion.
Now of course they have claimed this goal before so everyone was very skeptical of it but the surprise now is not that there is already a new expansion coming but that they are indeed managing their goal for once.
Now the drop during MoP and perhaps before may have influences them in really going for the 1y expo but post 6.0 numbers have had no real influence on it imo.
I'd much rather have a 2 year expansion that adds three tiers and a filler raid than have a 1 year expansion that adds 1 tier and nothing else tbh. I just think they're not going to pull off a december launch so it won't really be enough to compete
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On July 30 2015 07:10 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 06:14 Gorsameth wrote:
Subs have nothing to do with this (not subs since 6.0 anyway.
Blizzard was very clear when WoD launched that this would be a 1 year expansion.
Now of course they have claimed this goal before so everyone was very skeptical of it but the surprise now is not that there is already a new expansion coming but that they are indeed managing their goal for once.
Now the drop during MoP and perhaps before may have influences them in really going for the 1y expo but post 6.0 numbers have had no real influence on it imo. I'd much rather have a 2 year expansion that adds three tiers and a filler raid than have a 1 year expansion that adds 1 tier and nothing else tbh. I just think they're not going to pull off a december launch so it won't really be enough to compete
Im not a fan of 1 year expo's either, mostly because I fear it will come at the cost of quality, but this is the path Blizzard is on and explains the timetable (gamescom reveal rather then Blizzcon)
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United Kingdom20289 Posts
We already know that it's come at a cost of quality.
They're announcing the next expansion before the patch that fixes the rest of the patch 6.0 launch mounts. Just think about that for a second.
i700-720 in hfc heroic
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/byT5ioW.png)
This is after BM and Survival both got buffed last patch. Cmon blizz! Survival at least is nowhere close to viability. They could give a specwide 20% damage buff and MM would still be used for most or even all fights.
Legendary ring is insane for MM, lining up with a very powerful cooldown and a few of the best trinkets usages. If they nerf the spec because of how biased the legendary ring is, i will be very sad. I think they should really fix the problem at its source (by changing the ring mechanics to be more fair) rather than nerf the people who got huge benefit to have normal damage with the ring and shit damage without it - especially considering that the ring takes a good 2 to 3 months to earn.'
For clarity, those numbers include ~24'000 marksmanship parses. ~2300 beast mastery. Most specs somewhere between those numbers. It's a one-day thing, but that's wednesday and tuesday on the patch day to account for more people having access to the ring. Survival has almost no parses, but that's probably because it's literally the worst DPS spec in the game, even if it parsed high it wouldn't be as useful
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I really don't see how anyone can possibly think that this expansion will be released any time other then next summer, right around the same time as the Warcraft movie.
Not only is it probably one of the most obvious business moves in the history of ever, but there's no way that Blizzard could usher out this expansion through the alpha and beta phases and have it all ready to go by December.
I think that this "1 year expansion" idea was a pipe dream that just can't fit into reality. Expansions will probably go at the rate of about 1.5 years (like WoD will), or they may even go back to 2+ years, but there's no way I could see Blizzard pulling off 1 year expansions without rapidly killing WoW's player base to the point where they are forced to go back to larger, more substantial expansions.
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Didn't they talked about guild garrisons ? Or that was scraped ? Or did i dream ?
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no good hunter plays bm / sv for several reasons and wcl doesnt represent how good or bad the sv/bm speccs are. there is only the rare occasion of xul horac mythic where aoe is needed so bm is played. anything else the encounters are tailored towards mm big time. sv has no niche its bad at everything. in heroic guilds it doesnt matter what u play throu and if a good hunter would play bm / sv on heroic it wouldnt be last in any case
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United Kingdom20289 Posts
no good hunter plays bm / sv for several reasons and wcl doesnt represent how good or bad the sv/bm speccs are.
The difference is, 1-2 weeks ago BM parsed higher (but was less useful) on several fights. Now due to the legendary ring it's not even close to doing that.
edit:
Has anybody played guildless recently? These addons are out of control, i'm getting an automated guild invite and spam message like 5+ times per hour whenever i'm logged in @ garrison, stormshield, tanaan, hellfire citadel etc. I must have declined 50 of them in the last 3 days
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I can't believe people are okay with such rushed, half-assed expansions. It's like Blizzard has gone the route of EA and hastily churning out mediocre crap like EA have done with Call of Duty and Ubisoft with Assassin's Creed to capitalize on the initial box sells on top of increased monthly subscriptions, paid services and more and more cash shop items.
The hype surrounding WoD almost bought me back......but good thing I held out and waited a couple of months. Thanks Blizzard for saving me that $50 + $15 x however many months.
Seriously Blizzard, you should give everyone on your cinematic team a huge raise, they can sure generate hype like nobody's business. Oh and take that raise out of your delusional, cocky and out-of-touch developers' paychecks, especially Holinka's. Not sure how he is still able to hold onto his job.
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WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it.
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On August 01 2015 06:28 Redox wrote:
WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it.
WoD PvP has been completely and utterly horrible.
Garrisons as well are just not fun.
From a PvP point of view, frustrations with the way the game was going (and what needed to be done to gear for arena) was enough to make me unsub.
It was like 15 hours of gameplay per week (I had 3 characters I was playing) to be competitive, BEFORE I could spend time on arena.
Imagine if PvE'ers had to do 15 hours of dungeons every week in order to get stuff for raids.
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On August 01 2015 06:43 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2015 06:28 Redox wrote:
WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it. WoD PvP has been completely and utterly horrible. Garrisons as well are just not fun. From a PvP point of view, frustrations with the way the game was going (and what needed to be done to gear for arena) was enough to make me unsub. It was like 15 hours of gameplay per week (I had 3 characters I was playing) to be competitive, BEFORE I could spend time on arena. Imagine if PvE'ers had to do 15 hours of dungeons every week in order to get stuff for raids.
WoD PvP is infinitely better than MoP's.
MoP PvP was completely and utterly atrocious and some of the worst PvP I've ever seen in any game ever. I've been able to casually stroll into BG's on two different characters in WoD and actually do something and enjoy the gearing process. You could not do this in Mists. In Mists, you were 100% useless until you got full honor gear, and even then, resilience and PvP power made everything a complete clusterfuck. What a God-awful expansion that was for PvP.
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On August 01 2015 06:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2015 06:43 dae wrote:On August 01 2015 06:28 Redox wrote:
WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it. WoD PvP has been completely and utterly horrible. Garrisons as well are just not fun. From a PvP point of view, frustrations with the way the game was going (and what needed to be done to gear for arena) was enough to make me unsub. It was like 15 hours of gameplay per week (I had 3 characters I was playing) to be competitive, BEFORE I could spend time on arena. Imagine if PvE'ers had to do 15 hours of dungeons every week in order to get stuff for raids. WoD PvP is infinitely better than MoP's. MoP PvP was completely and utterly atrocious and some of the worst PvP I've ever seen in any game ever. I've been able to casually stroll into BG's on two different characters in WoD and actually do something and enjoy the gearing process. You could not do this in Mists. In Mists, you were 100% useless until you got full honor gear, and even then, resilience and PvP power made everything a complete clusterfuck. What a God-awful expansion that was for PvP.
When people talk about pvp, "ive been doing casual 2-3 bgs per week and felt like i could pull some weight" is the last thing they have in mind. When people talk about pvp its about arena or rbg and the numbers show that wod pvp is the worst it has ever been balance wise. On top of that (and partially because of that) ashran has the worst implementation ever with ridiculous queue times and imbalanced gameplay. And ashran is the only thing that is new in wod for pvp. And when 6.2 hit and people who wanted to pvp in arena were forced to do ashran to get a random drop BiS item, the outcry was so big that blizzard tucked their tail and went from bluepost "its important that there is an itemprogression throughout all the season, otherwise there is literally 0 reason to play because whats there to do once you have all your BiS items" to "fine you can buy that shit with conquest points whatevs".
Lorewise, what the hell did they pull with HFC? Hellscream is literally hitler in WoW, did everyone casually forget his crimes?
Edit: In regards to the mercenary stuff to alleviate queue times a bit, it's also important not to go all fanboy and say "See, it's not that bad after all", why are y'all crying. Yes, it was so fucking bad that we had to cry and scream so hard for them to fix it, they didnt do it voluntarily. And it's not even a fix, just a band-aid.
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On August 01 2015 06:43 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2015 06:28 Redox wrote:
WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it. WoD PvP has been completely and utterly horrible. Garrisons as well are just not fun. From a PvP point of view, frustrations with the way the game was going (and what needed to be done to gear for arena) was enough to make me unsub. It was like 15 hours of gameplay per week (I had 3 characters I was playing) to be competitive, BEFORE I could spend time on arena. Imagine if PvE'ers had to do 15 hours of dungeons every week in order to get stuff for raids.
Well I have never seen a time when PvPers were not complaining. But apart from this, i really dont understand your point.
Granted I only play PvP casually at low rating. But I thought you could play Arena right away as all you gear gets boosted to 670. How good or bad you do doesnt even matter, everybody gets the same points.
But even if you only want to play Arena with some gear, getting the blue honour gear is so fast. Took me like 2-3 hours with the recent bg event to get a fresh lvl 100 character completely geared in 670 (715) pvp gear. In any case I think it is faster than in other expansions.
But even if you get your gear slow it doesnt matter because conquest cap. Points get stored so you can easily get as much points as those that have been playing for weeks on your first Arena week.
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On July 30 2015 07:10 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 06:14 Gorsameth wrote:
Subs have nothing to do with this (not subs since 6.0 anyway.
Blizzard was very clear when WoD launched that this would be a 1 year expansion.
Now of course they have claimed this goal before so everyone was very skeptical of it but the surprise now is not that there is already a new expansion coming but that they are indeed managing their goal for once.
Now the drop during MoP and perhaps before may have influences them in really going for the 1y expo but post 6.0 numbers have had no real influence on it imo. I'd much rather have a 2 year expansion that adds three tiers and a filler raid than have a 1 year expansion that adds 1 tier and nothing else tbh. I just think they're not going to pull off a december launch so it won't really be enough to compete
For me, it has everything to do with the space of no content.
Burning Crusade had Black Temple.
Wrath had Naxxramas and ICC.
Cata had DragonSoul.
MoP had the biggest fuck you of all: SoO.
I dont mind paying extra if we eliminate those windows of time where I'm paying lots of money for no content, I'd have probably unsubbed by then as well.
Now clearly, WoD had no content even out of the box, but ideally, a class, 2 raid tiers, some more battlegrounds and dungeons, WoD not only had a pitiful quantitiy of dungeons, but you didnt have reason to do them so it was rotten content that I found no use for, more arenas and battlegrounds and I'd be happy customer if we had all that in a year or so.
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On August 01 2015 07:17 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2015 06:43 dae wrote:On August 01 2015 06:28 Redox wrote:
WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it. WoD PvP has been completely and utterly horrible. Garrisons as well are just not fun. From a PvP point of view, frustrations with the way the game was going (and what needed to be done to gear for arena) was enough to make me unsub. It was like 15 hours of gameplay per week (I had 3 characters I was playing) to be competitive, BEFORE I could spend time on arena. Imagine if PvE'ers had to do 15 hours of dungeons every week in order to get stuff for raids. Well I have never seen a time when PvPers were not complaining. But apart from this, i really dont understand your point. Granted I only play PvP casually at low rating. But I thought you could play Arena right away as all you gear gets boosted to 670. How good or bad you do doesnt even matter, everybody gets the same points. But even if you only want to play Arena with some gear, getting the blue honour gear is so fast. Took me like 2-3 hours with the recent bg event to get a fresh lvl 100 character completely geared in 670 (715) pvp gear. In any case I think it is faster than in other expansions. But even if you get your gear slow it doesnt matter because conquest cap. Points get stored so you can easily get as much points as those that have been playing for weeks on your first Arena week.
The way it was at the start of the season was like this.
Say you wanted to just do arena. You can get like say 1 piece per week from arena conquest cap.
Now, compare this to someone that arena's + RBG's + Ashran. You can, with perfect RNG, get 3 pieces of gear in a week that are BiS.
After 2 weeks, you have 2 pieces compared to the person that has 6. (Epics).
The gear makes a massive difference.
Also, some pieces of BiS gear were ONLY obtainable through ashran and rbg's, from random drops.
So in order to have a chance at being competitive, you HAVE to RBG and Ashran as well, or else you get behind on gear.
And I wanted to PvP on 3 characters, so I was doing it on all of them.
That was the situation that made me quit.
Edit: Also, its only the base conquest cap that gets saved. You can get double that amounts of points per week, that you can't catch up on, based on rating.
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United Kingdom20289 Posts
On August 01 2015 06:28 Redox wrote:
WoD is a great expansion imo.
I dont know how you are able to rate it or even get mad about it when you are not playing it.
I think (based on my and many others opinions) it's the worst time period the game has had so far
For me, it has everything to do with the space of no content.
Burning Crusade had Black Temple.
Black Temple was patched in like 6 months after TBC released (along with 2 big daily zones+reputations for gold generation and 2 different cool mounts that everybody wanted) and nobody had even cleared all of the other raids yet due to a combination of difficulty, gear checks and a few artificial limitations. Only a small percentage of people (somewhere between 1% and 10%) were actually raiding in any serious capacity - in TBC most people did professions, dailies, 5-mans, other reputation stuff and casual (BG-focused) pvp, not raiding. It's not like SOO where almost all of the games playerbase cleared the last raid and then had to wait for a year for new content.
The last raid for TBC was sunwell, which for most people was just a cool new server event daily zone that had some nice music, gave a lot of gold and was worth doing for your 30-60 minutes a day.
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Wrath had Naxxramas and ICC.
So you mean the gap after that content before other content? WOTLK opened with Naxx, EoE, OS and VoA (t7) then went Ulduar (huge extremely loved raid, t8) then ToTC before ICC, pause and small ruby sanctum raid. They gated ICC for everyone and in the year leading up to that, they had the most raw content and accessible raid content that there had ever been (and has ever been since) in the game. It was a long wait, but it was nowhere near the worst - especially without LFR existing, many people that i know took a huge portion of the patch improving, learning the instance and actually getting a lich king kill, especially with the huge slowly improving buffs at the end.
Yea i really have to say that again. They went from t7 (launch with naxx + three single boss raids) to tier 8 (ULDUAR) in 6 months. Then they went to tier 9 in 3.5 months and then released ICECROWN CITADEL 4 months after that.
That pacing of content is embarassing to the current WoW team, we are not even close. The only reason we had a 10 month gap to patch 4.0 was because they already released everything way ahead of what would be considered a reasonable schedule today. Wrath lasted 2 years and at no point was the content drought worse than what WOD's is or will be; i'd say it was actually probably better for raw raid content for most of the expansion.
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On August 01 2015 12:39 Cyro wrote:
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Burning Crusade had Black Temple.
Black Temple was patched in like 6 months after TBC released (along with 2 big daily zones+reputations for gold generation and 2 different cool mounts that everybody wanted) and nobody had even cleared all of the other raids yet due to a combination of difficulty, gear checks and a few artificial limitations. Only a small percentage of people (somewhere between 1% and 10%) were actually raiding in any serious capacity - in TBC most people did professions, dailies, 5-mans, other reputation stuff and casual (BG-focused) pvp, not raiding. It's not like SOO where almost all of the games playerbase cleared the last raid and then had to wait for a year for new content.
The last raid for TBC was sunwell, which for most people was just a cool new server event daily zone that had some nice music, gave a lot of gold and was worth doing for your 30-60 minutes a day.
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You forget that we had to raid Black Temple for like 10 months after its release. That's what I was talking about. Sunwell was awesome and wasnt too long at all
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On August 01 2015 12:39 Cyro wrote:So you mean the gap after that content before other content? WOTLK opened with Naxx, EoE, OS and VoA (t7) then went Ulduar (huge extremely loved raid, t8) then ToTC before ICC, pause and small ruby sanctum raid. They gated ICC for everyone and in the year leading up to that, they had the most raw content and accessible raid content that there had ever been (and has ever been since) in the game. It was a long wait, but it was nowhere near the worst - especially without LFR existing, many people that i know took a huge portion of the patch improving, learning the instance and actually getting a lich king kill, especially with the huge slowly improving buffs at the end. Yea i really have to say that again. They went from t7 (launch with naxx + three single boss raids) to tier 8 (ULDUAR) in 6 months. Then they went to tier 9 in 3.5 months and then released ICECROWN CITADEL 4 months after that. That pacing of content is embarassing to the current WoW team, we are not even close. The only reason we had a 10 month gap to patch 4.0 was because they already released everything way ahead of what would be considered a reasonable schedule today. Wrath lasted 2 years and at no point was the content drought worse than what WOD's is or will be; i'd say it was actually probably better for raw raid content for most of the expansion.
Yeah, and WOTLK was remarkably bad at launch because ALL the content was clearable the first week it came except Sarth 3d. That shit was so easy, there were no hard modes back then, so we had to do a dumbed down raid of a raid we already did before, and was super easy. So that Six months to Ulduar was AGONIZING because of the lack of progression during Wrath launch. ToC was a fucking joke of a garbage raid, I'm still mad that even existed after how awesome Ulduar was. and ICC had the same problem BT and SoO had. You were farming that raid for 9 or 10 months, it was 10 or 11 from the actual first wing release of ICC.
WoD doesnt have that many content patches, that part isnt shitty, but I don't feel it as a drought anywhere near as bad as Wrath or BC. It definetely can, if they announce it at Gamescom and it comes out next June or some dumb shit, then yeah then it would be way worse, if they can get it out by Nov/Dec, I'll be happy.
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United Kingdom20289 Posts
launch. ToC was a fucking joke of a garbage raid, I'm still mad that even existed after how awesome Ulduar was.
But with the 7 month gap between Ulduar and ICC, it didn't even need to exist. It was one of mine and my best friend's favourite raids, too. They threw it in just because they could produce more content between 3.0 and 4.0 and it was great for that 7 month gap between Ulduar and ICC, as well as the 10 months between the last -major- patch and the next expansion.
It was 10 months from first ICC wing release to Cataclysm, they staggered the wings over like months and then released Ruby Sanctum.
WoD doesnt have that many content patches, that part isnt shitty, but I don't feel it as a drought anywhere near as bad as Wrath or BC
Content-wise, it looks like we took WOTLK, lowered the expansion time by 1/3'rd but removed TOTC, Naxx, EoE and OS, keeping Ulduar, ICC and maybe Ruby Sanctum. That feels much worse to me. I wasn't clearing the raids in TBC - almost nobody was, so i can't comment much on that aside from the design of the game being very different at the time. They were not running the entire PVE playerbase on a treadmill of raid content (at any difficulty from afk to super hard for the top 1% of players) as the huge core focus of PVE at expense of everything else - it was just different.
The raid content itself feels fine but it's not quite as much as WOTLK and the pacing is not there at all, there hasn't been any content that i can't clear on launch week and i'm nowhere near a super high level raider. I've never even been in a guild that was top 100 on either of my servers. It's just killing it and then killing it twice more on higher difficulties, which kills most of the hype for me; there is no practicing/gearing/improving for 6 months to go kill Lich King for the first time any more. I totally understand the guys quitting 3 weeks into the content patch, while that would have been insanity in patch 3.3. While they have less content, it's also much less entertaining for me because of that - i'm still here because there's simply nothing better and the reality of playing for only 20-40% of the time in each expansion's lifecycle is worse to me than continuing to play but being generally unhappy with the motivations to do raid content.
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It was 10 months from first ICC wing release to Cataclysm, they staggered the wings over like months and then released Ruby Sanctum.
December 8, 2009.was when the first ICC wing was released.
December 7, 2010 was when Catacylsm was released.
I understand that they staggered it, but that is way too long regardless of the staggered release of the wings and hard modes.
But with the 7 month gap between Ulduar and ICC, it didn't even need to exist. It was one of mine and my best friend's favourite raids, too. They threw it in just because they could produce more content between 3.0 and 4.0 and it was great for that 7 month gap between Ulduar and ICC, as well as the 10 months between the last -major- patch and the next expansion.
It was completely half assed and boring. The fights were lame and the fights were so easy it completely invaliated any reason to go to Ulduar. Yeah it was something but god damn, it was just so uninspired and boring. It's easily WoW's worst raid.
Content-wise, it looks like we took WOTLK, lowered the expansion time by 1/3'rd but removed TOTC, Naxx, EoE and OS, keeping Ulduar, ICC and maybe Ruby Sanctum. That feels much worse to me.
That's a great comparison. I guess that looks great to me, because when I look at at Naxx, and ToTC, i just see boring recycled content that I've already done. I think 30 raid bosses split up in like 2- 2.5 tiers a year is great, I didnt play during MoP but im a big fan of like, splitting bosses up in many different environments as opposed to 2 ginormus ones like Hellfire.
i'm still here because there's simply nothing better and the reality of playing for only 20-40% of the time in each expansion's lifecycle is worse to me than continuing to play but being generally unhappy with the motivations to do raid content.
That's exactly what I hated about those above examples I listed. I dont want to pay 15 dollars a month for an entire year's worth of empty content like I did during ICC and DS. I don't want content updates so one half of the expansion and then absolutely nothing for the rest of the half. I want smooth quick transitions.
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United Kingdom20289 Posts
I don't want content updates so one half of the expansion and then absolutely nothing for the rest of the half. I want smooth quick transitions.
Neither method seems able to give it to us, so i want to enjoy the gap as much as possible. We'll see in 5 days what the timing is and promises are for the new expansion
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