EPT[wow] Warlords of Draenor - Page 119
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DCRed
Finland435 Posts
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
Edit: Got updated now. | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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DCRed
Finland435 Posts
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22706 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:46 TheFish7 wrote: Was kind of hoping they'd do a more drastic squish actually. Having "K" at the end of every number is still a pain in the ass. Like it used to mean that ilvl 66 gear would be more or less "green" gear for a level 66 character? not sure how to describe that. There were items that would give you +5 to daggers for example, which meant your dagger attacks had the same % to hit a mob as a lvl 61 character. It'd be cool if they kept that linear progression, although I guess it'd make a lot of older gear kind of imba if it was truly a linear progression. Kind of like how certain level 49-59 pieces especially certain epics were being used in the early days of MC raiding. They could even bring back the +1% to crit/hit like they used to have, which was a lot easier on the eyes and the brain. Sorry but no. strait % crit/hit had to go because it gives you massive scaling issues. If you release a +2% crit item at level 60 you need a +3% crit item at lvl 70 to not let the old stuff be an upgrade. You end up running into a wall And + weapon skill stuff was broken as hell lol. it was the best stat for every melee dps by miles because of the way damage is calculated. Its not just about hit % changing its about glancing hits aswell. One can argue if the squish is hard enough I will give you that tho I personally dont think it matters much. Remember the harder you squish the less progress you get at lower levels. Its not fun for gear from level 1 to 40 to have to give decimal points of str or whatever because its been squished that hard. (the real problem ofc go's back to around Wotlk times where they just started having to big of a ilvl gap between tiers and within tiers) | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
For example, just because you have a 2% crit item at 60 doesn't mean you need a 3% crit item at 70. You simply need more of the secondary stats to make the level 70 one better. As a real-world example there were a lot of level 60 trinkets that were useful at level 70 raiding, but that also had level 70 upgrades. The notion that the level 60 items were mandatory was completely false, and something that the lesser-skilled self-entitlement crowd made up. Nobody in a serious raiding guild had any issues with using a level 60 item to start the raid tier and upgrading it to a level 70 one halfway through. The people that complained about it did so because, well, they're just terrible at the game and wanted to complain (like so many other aspects of vanilla/TBC). The truth is that a skilled player would understand that a level 60 item with 1% crit, 10 Stamina, and 10 Agility was not as good as a level 60 item with 1% crit, 50 Stamina, and 20 Agility. There were never any scaling issues with the old system and in fact the current system is far worse for a lot of classes, which is why you see a lot of dumb shit this expansion. See: Warlocks, Mages, Druids for some very blatant DPS examples, or see Bears and how horrible their defensive stat scaling has been since WoTLK. Don't get me wrong - there were some massive scaling issues in vanilla/TBC as well; Rogues with 99% dodge that could solo tank raid bosses, for example. Crit and Hit were never problematic, though. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
I'm not arguing for smaller numbers at low levels, what I'm saying is all they're doing is getting rid of the ridiculous item bumps that existed from BC -> Wrath -> Cata -> MoP, and then dividing everything else by 10. As it stands now I doubt a level 67 item will still be useable at say lvl 73, simply because the ilvl is still a huge leap up. But maybe I am not understanding what is happening. What I'd rather have is to take vanilla stats and have a linear progression after level 60, just redesign all the expansion gear so that level 90 greens are ilvl 90. Black Temple gear would then be like ilvl 78 or 82 or something. But that would be a lot more work than what they're doing. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22706 Posts
On August 06 2014 06:32 TheFish7 wrote: What I'd rather have is to take vanilla stats and have a linear progression after level 60, just redesign all the expansion gear so that level 90 greens are ilvl 90. Black Temple gear would then be like ilvl 78 or 82 or something. But that would be a lot more work than what they're doing. Except at that point your margins are so low you can do level 90 content in level 70 gear. Just to illustrate the point. Level 54 crafted items were ilvl 59 while Tier 3 was 86-92. You just cant make the gaps that small. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22706 Posts
On August 06 2014 08:07 TheFish7 wrote: Well like I said you'd have to nerf the epics aside from the first epic tier of an expansion. That would include the bosses of the raids etc. This has the added advantage however of making it possible to run lower level raids for exp and loot while leveling. I could level from 60-63 in AQ20 or BWL instead of having to run ramparts over and over and over. Im not sure you can pull off big enough differences between expansions, let alone tiers with a squish that tight but as you mentioned yourself i believe it would be way way to much work regardless :p | ||
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ViperPL
Poland1775 Posts
I remember back in TBC in Kara raid there was a warlock that did over 3 mln dmg over some trash and a few bosses combined, now you can just cast 1 chaos bolt and get the same amount of dmg  | ||
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Zooper31
United States5714 Posts
On August 06 2014 14:31 ViperPL wrote: I have to say, I'm quite disappointed with the way stat squish turned out in the beta. People already have mop level amounts of hp in beta, it's quite sad. I hoped tanks in tier 1 hc gear would have no more than 50k-60k hp, and rest of the stats adjusted accordingly. I really don't like big numbers when they don't amount to anything. I remember back in TBC in Kara raid there was a warlock that did over 3 mln dmg over some trash and a few bosses combined, now you can just cast 1 chaos bolt and get the same amount of dmg Agreed I was hoping for TBC type numbers. This is pretty stupid to literally only push back numbers 1 expansion. So now we have to have a stat squish every expansion? Like what's the point. Unless they plan on ending the game after WoD. That's the only thing I can think of, but then it makes no sense to have some massive overhaul of the combat system if they are going to end the game in the near future. | ||
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DCRed
Finland435 Posts
On August 06 2014 04:03 DCRed wrote: this is why . The numbers except player health have been squished more than one expansion. There wont another squish after WoD, Blizzard isn't that stupid. They want to get rid of base resi and battle fatigue and that's why player health remains bigger for now, it could still change but it seems to be working for now, however they might have to re-introduce those in later expansions. We are looking for another squish after 2 or 3 expansions again but not after WoD. As for why the squish wasn't bigger, you still need progression during leveling and there's plenty of things they have had to use time to fix things. It's hard to say really(even though others will make you believe that it isn't) if this squish is enough to get things done what Blizzard is aiming for or not. WoD is already coming out much later than they most likely wanted but the thing is they had to do something and for WoD things look to be okay, we'll see what it looks after few expansions. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
Cataclysm lost ~3,000,000 players for a total loss of 25% of the entire playerbase. Mists of Pandaria has so far lost over 3,200,000 players for a total loss of 30% of the entire playerbase. Obviously Blizzard likes to throw around the "people didn't enjoy hardcore content in vanilla/TBC" argument as the reason for why they are dumbing the game down so much, and a lot of players like to pull that nostalgia card as well, but... when your sub losses INCREASE every time you make the game easier, but historically you GAIN MORE PLAYERS every time you make the game harder... Take a look at the hardest MMO out there, EVE Online. It has seen steady growth for OVER A DECADE. Second Life, while not a traditional MMO, has also seen steady growth over the last decade. You can't really use the "well the game is old so it's going to lose subs anyway" card, either. EVE is older than WoW and it doesn't have that problem; nor do games like EverQuest or Lineage. Then there are the casual players who will quit after 3-4 months regardless of what content you give them. So, you intentionally alienate your dedicated players... and you know you won't retain your casual players regardless of what you do. You also realize you have been bleeding subs like you've been on your period for the last four years straight, but you stay the course and continue homogenizing and simplifying your game. Every expansion since TBC has been the same thing from the players; "Wrath will be better!", but it stagnated. "Cata will fix things!" but it made them worse. "Pandaria will fix things!" but it made them worse again. Now it's "Warlords will make everything better!". Can't we just accept at this point that Blizzard is milking a drowning cow? #bringbackvanilla | ||
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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
God i'm sick of reading about it, what discussion do you expect to have that hasn't been said 1,000,000 times since WotLK's release. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
Carry on. | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
In regards to that little bit on subs being lower than ever, according to this, you're wrong Serejai. So go ahead and source your claim. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
Or that MoP has lost 3.2m players? Started at 10m, currently lower than 6.8m. Source: Math. | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
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