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On June 19 2014 23:12 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 22:51 Serejai wrote:On June 19 2014 22:20 Teoita wrote:Christmas 100% imo. The beta isn't even close to being up yet (currently alpha consists of one zone, up to lvl 92, horde only), so there is still a lot of work to be done. And now, our regular "Serejai shits on WoW developers" segment! Stay tuned, we'll be back in a few posts!  Beta should be up by the end of the month and the WoD release will be "no later than November" from what I've been told by multiple devs. So, in this case, there's nothing to shit on because I think both of those time frames are acceptable  I can bitch about how they are gutting Druids, though, if you want. Dunno i feel like they are being insanely slow. I agree with all the ability pruning thing, they are removing sooo much shit and a lot of it is passives (which doesnt accomplish anything so wtf). I hope it's just a huge redsign thing.
In my own defense here... I think the timing of alpha to beta to release is acceptable. I think they're completely incompetent as a whole, though, because release really should have been NOW, with beta back in February-ish. I still cannot fathom how an expansion with such a small amount of content could take so long to produce; especially when the WoW team size has been steadily increasing AND current expansion content has been steadily decreasing/stagnating.
So yeah... they were slow to get the ball rolling but now that it's in motion I think their internal schedule is fine (two months of F&F alpha, three months of beta, one month of release candidate, retail).
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Think its pretty undeniable that Blizz is once again to slow on the next expansion. 1 year of the final tier is terrible and it makes me wonder when they actually started real work on it. Part of me thinks they canned whatever they had half way through MoP and began anew.
On one end I think the pruning is good, esp where it concerns passives and the like but a lot of small flavor abilities are being cut aswell which takes away from the feeling of classes.
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Italy12246 Posts
I don't see the point of pruning passives. They are just kind of there doing their thing; the reason for removing abilities in the first place is to reduce keybind bloat (class dependant ofc), and to a lesser extent cooldown stacking. Removing spec-specific passives does neither of these.
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Ability pruning seems to be okay for the most part, but some classes are definitely getting a bit of the shaft. I'm worried about how few instant cast spells are available to healers now, but I'm sure many PvPers will disagree with me
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On June 19 2014 23:11 FFW_Rude wrote:Well maybe i mistyped what i wantied to ask (english not my maintongue). So i would love to have an addon like i used to have that could create "fake quest". Quest was created by dropdown list and was simple (but that addon is nowhere to be found as i don't remember it's name). - First dropdown was : " Kill / Collect" - Then you had a number - Then you could search a list of items (exemple : Silk Cloth) or monsters : Murloc. - Then you could put coordinates. (and a button could be click for : "where i am"). - And random text could be added The addon worked with tomtom. I used to be the farmer of my guild so when they asked me for an item i would create a quest then when it was complete i would click the complete button or the "reset" button. Was quite handy. There was a database with it (like .. silverdragon have for exemple). But if i cannot find this type of addon. I was looking for a kill tracker (so i know how many of this type of mob i killed) or for the highlight i wasn't thinking of that type of highlight with the seach (i already have that). It's more like you CHOOSE from a list or something items you want to track (exemple : silk cloth again) and the item appears with a green background (like certain addons do for receipes that you don't have but can learn) so you don't sell items that you want to keep. "Well it's silly, you know what you want to keep"... well... yes and no. For exemple i like collecting and crafting and i can't remember all component i can use for craft (yeah i even craft grey items) so i need to highlight a lot of things. Craft or reputation or quest item like the legendary one. Or maybe i'll try to see if there is a custom tooltip items (like you add notes to objet for you) the idea just popped so i'm going to look at that too. For those who ask "why oh why", i play the game very differently than people. I play alone and i just... collect things. Going in raids or doing dungeons heroic 90level isn't appealing to me (cause i can't do it solo mostly). So i know my questions are weird 
Ok, I'll break this up into sections.
First off, the item tracking issue for farming and whatnot (fake quests). What I would personally do, if farming for a certain number of a specific item, is simply create a hotbar for this. You can drag and drop an item to it and the bar will display the total number you have in your bags. So, let's say your guild wants you to farm 200 Golden Carp. When that number on the hotbar hits 200 you're done. Seems far easier than creating an addon to do fake quests and all that stuff. As far as a kill tracker goes you can use MobInfo2 but that will only display your total kills and whatnot. I don't think you can set it to track per session. You could try TotalRP2 for creating custom quests but I'm not sure it will do what you want.
On the matter of crafting... you're definitely complicating things here. Just download a crafting addon like TSM and it will track materials and all that for you. No need to highlight items and all that.
It seems like between ArkInventory, TSM, and Altoholic you should be able to do anything you want as far as inventory management and collecting things goes. I used to manage thousands of items at a time with those.
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Reducing hotkeys is fine but what they are doing is homogenization. When I rolled a Druid back in BC it's because I wanted to be a jack of all trades. In fact, that was the class description. I could shift out of tanking to toss around some heals. I could stop healing and jump into bear to help offtank. I could switch to kitty to help interrupt. Etc.
The started down an awful road in MoP when they split bear and kitty into separate specs and now they're further ruining the class by removing pretty much all cross-spec abilities. There used to be very few spec-specific abilities (only talents like Moonkin Form) but now, in WoD, if you're a bear then you're literally stuck as a bear because all of the other spec abilities are locked. And then there's the dumbing down and homogenization of bear (and all tank specs, in general) to be active mitigation like Death Knights were... and kittys are essentially Rogues now... and resto druids have lost their niche healing role...
It doesn't seem as bad for other classes but Druids have always been a diverse class and now that's all pretty much gone. Instead of being a Druid I feel more like I'm a Death Knight / Mage / Rogue / Priest depending on what spec I'm in.
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On June 20 2014 00:04 Serejai wrote:
Reducing hotkeys is fine but what they are doing is homogenization. When I rolled a Druid back in BC it's because I wanted to be a jack of all trades. In fact, that was the class description. I could shift out of tanking to toss around some heals. I could stop healing and jump into bear to help offtank. I could switch to kitty to help interrupt. Etc.
The started down an awful road in MoP when they split bear and kitty into separate specs and now they're further ruining the class by removing pretty much all cross-spec abilities. There used to be very few spec-specific abilities (only talents like Moonkin Form) but now, in WoD, if you're a bear then you're literally stuck as a bear because all of the other spec abilities are locked. And then there's the dumbing down and homogenization of bear (and all tank specs, in general) to be active mitigation like Death Knights were... and kittys are essentially Rogues now... and resto druids have lost their niche healing role...
It doesn't seem as bad for other classes but Druids have always been a diverse class and now that's all pretty much gone. Instead of being a Druid I feel more like I'm a Death Knight / Mage / Rogue / Priest depending on what spec I'm in.
Outside of everything else you said, I'm curious as to how tanking classes transitioning to active mitigation is "dumbing down" at all? If anything, it would stand to reason that by forcing tanks to actively mitigate and not just be passive tanks anymore, that it would actually increase the skill ceiling and lower the skill floor, putting larger gaps between the "just barely passable" and "good" and "great" tanks, making the classes more complex and more "active" (which for most people I would assume to be more fun, given that, to me at least, just sitting there and letting the character play themselves seems quite boring). Also, thematically, wouldn't it make more sense for tanks to be actively trying to survive as opposed to generate threat?
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Oh nice idea for the bar serejai. I think i'll do that. I'm taking mobinfo and totalrp to see what it does.
Also i already have TSM and i'm not sure how you can track item in that.
I'll try arkinventory too. I don't have this one. Thanks a lot really the task bar thing is so stupidly nice
EDIT : took'em all. I'll try that tonight. Thx again Serejai i should have voted for you for the TLSMishthingy
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Italy12246 Posts
To be fair Serejai, it's not like in TBC (or vanilla) you could realistically play all those roles at the same time, during any given encounter (or raid even, because of lack of dual spec). I haven't played a druid much, but the way Heart of the Wild works in MoP looks like a good compromise to me; as long as it still works in WoD, the hybrid theme of druids you mention should be ok. I do agree on guardian/feral spec though.
Regarding tanking, active mitigation is necessary when you decide to just get rid of threat generation, otherwise tanks would just kind of sit there getting beaten on. It's just a matter of, "what should a tank's rotation accomplish?"
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On June 20 2014 00:04 Serejai wrote:
It doesn't seem as bad for other classes but Druids have always been a diverse class and now that's all pretty much gone. Instead of being a Druid I feel more like I'm a Death Knight / Mage / Rogue / Priest depending on what spec I'm in.
On the other hand, to the many people who dislike playing alts for different roles or have built a connection with their character after playing it for so many years, it's actually a welcome change in direction.
At some point between TBC and MoP, Blizz decided that Druids should be average to above average in every role (and in the case of Kitty single-target, the absolute best right now) but with less fluid transitions and more homogenization, rather than shit-tier to average in every role with more seamless transitions and more flavor.
You can call class-standardization a bad direction for the game, but it definitely makes it easier to balance, at least in theory. If you want to give those decisions subjective labels like laziness or incompetence, that's up to you.
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On June 20 2014 00:28 Teoita wrote:
To be fair Serejai, it's not like in TBC (or vanilla) you could realistically play all those roles at the same time, during any given encounter (or raid even, because of lack of dual spec). I haven't played a druid much, but the way Heart of the Wild works in MoP looks like a good compromise to me; as long as it still works in WoD, the hybrid theme of druids you mention should be ok. I do agree on guardian/feral spec though.
Regarding tanking, active mitigation is necessary when you decide to just get rid of threat generation, otherwise tanks would just kind of sit there getting beaten on. It's just a matter of, "what should a tank's rotation accomplish?"
God I miss the times when threat mattered as a tank
And to be fair the active mitigation doesn't add much. Its either keeping a buff up or pressing a button when its ready.
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Italy12246 Posts
On June 20 2014 00:40 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 00:28 Teoita wrote:
To be fair Serejai, it's not like in TBC (or vanilla) you could realistically play all those roles at the same time, during any given encounter (or raid even, because of lack of dual spec). I haven't played a druid much, but the way Heart of the Wild works in MoP looks like a good compromise to me; as long as it still works in WoD, the hybrid theme of druids you mention should be ok. I do agree on guardian/feral spec though.
Regarding tanking, active mitigation is necessary when you decide to just get rid of threat generation, otherwise tanks would just kind of sit there getting beaten on. It's just a matter of, "what should a tank's rotation accomplish?" God I miss the times when threat mattered as a tank And to be fair the active mitigation doesn't add much. Its either keeping a buff up or pressing a button when its ready.
Yeah but generating threat also is pretty much that (keep sunders up, hit revenge when it procs, keep up thunder clap, dump rage with heroic strike or cleave), isn't it?
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On June 20 2014 00:49 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 00:40 Gorsameth wrote:On June 20 2014 00:28 Teoita wrote:
To be fair Serejai, it's not like in TBC (or vanilla) you could realistically play all those roles at the same time, during any given encounter (or raid even, because of lack of dual spec). I haven't played a druid much, but the way Heart of the Wild works in MoP looks like a good compromise to me; as long as it still works in WoD, the hybrid theme of druids you mention should be ok. I do agree on guardian/feral spec though.
Regarding tanking, active mitigation is necessary when you decide to just get rid of threat generation, otherwise tanks would just kind of sit there getting beaten on. It's just a matter of, "what should a tank's rotation accomplish?" God I miss the times when threat mattered as a tank And to be fair the active mitigation doesn't add much. Its either keeping a buff up or pressing a button when its ready. Yeah but generating threat also is pretty much that (keep sunders up, hit revenge when it procs, keep up thunder clap, dump rage with heroic strike or cleave), isn't it?
Ofc, everything is "press a button when you should" but i guess its the whole idea that is drawn up by Active mitigation when there really isn't much active about it.
At least with threat you had the race between a tank and the dps, tho to be fair that race never lasted more then a couple of seconds normally :p
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On June 20 2014 00:10 .ImpacT. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 00:04 Serejai wrote:
Reducing hotkeys is fine but what they are doing is homogenization. When I rolled a Druid back in BC it's because I wanted to be a jack of all trades. In fact, that was the class description. I could shift out of tanking to toss around some heals. I could stop healing and jump into bear to help offtank. I could switch to kitty to help interrupt. Etc.
The started down an awful road in MoP when they split bear and kitty into separate specs and now they're further ruining the class by removing pretty much all cross-spec abilities. There used to be very few spec-specific abilities (only talents like Moonkin Form) but now, in WoD, if you're a bear then you're literally stuck as a bear because all of the other spec abilities are locked. And then there's the dumbing down and homogenization of bear (and all tank specs, in general) to be active mitigation like Death Knights were... and kittys are essentially Rogues now... and resto druids have lost their niche healing role...
It doesn't seem as bad for other classes but Druids have always been a diverse class and now that's all pretty much gone. Instead of being a Druid I feel more like I'm a Death Knight / Mage / Rogue / Priest depending on what spec I'm in. Outside of everything else you said, I'm curious as to how tanking classes transitioning to active mitigation is "dumbing down" at all? If anything, it would stand to reason that by forcing tanks to actively mitigate and not just be passive tanks anymore, that it would actually increase the skill ceiling and lower the skill floor, putting larger gaps between the "just barely passable" and "good" and "great" tanks, making the classes more complex and more "active" (which for most people I would assume to be more fun, given that, to me at least, just sitting there and letting the character play themselves seems quite boring). Also, thematically, wouldn't it make more sense for tanks to be actively trying to survive as opposed to generate threat?
I can't speak personally for non-bear tanks but I will speak on the behalf of former guildies that tanked with me on other classes. Basically, on paper, active mitigation does indeed sound better. The problem is in the way they implemented it. For example, tanking on a bear in BC/WoTLK was both harder and more satisfying than it currently is with AM. The problem with AM is that it doesn't require any thinking. Back when bear was a passive-defense tank spec our rotation was much more complex and dynamic than it is now and that's because you just spam the same button over and over again now.
I'm really not sure how else to say it other than that the passive-tanking bear rotation was more complex, required more skill, and was a lot less boring than the active-tanking bear rotation is. You would think going from passive to active would make a spec more dynamic but it did the opposite because now, instead of picking and choosing various DPS abilities to use, we just spam our active mitigation one over and over. Loss of Bearcat also severely dumbed down the playstyle (can't really tank in kitty anymore with active mitigation).
As far as other classes... if people wanted to play an active mitigation tank they would have rolled a Death Knight. This is what every single tank I've tanked alongside in the last few years has said as to why they switched to a healer or dps and I agree with it myself.
So in short it's not active mitigation as a concept that is the problem; it's the really awful way they implemented it (a common trend, it seems).
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On June 20 2014 00:28 Teoita wrote:
To be fair Serejai, it's not like in TBC (or vanilla) you could realistically play all those roles at the same time, during any given encounter (or raid even, because of lack of dual spec). I haven't played a druid much, but the way Heart of the Wild works in MoP looks like a good compromise to me; as long as it still works in WoD, the hybrid theme of druids you mention should be ok. I do agree on guardian/feral spec though.
Regarding tanking, active mitigation is necessary when you decide to just get rid of threat generation, otherwise tanks would just kind of sit there getting beaten on. It's just a matter of, "what should a tank's rotation accomplish?"
HoTW is very clunky and serves an extreme niche. Once per fight you can basically be useful outside of your current role for a few seconds. Could be better but overall it's an acceptable ability I guess. Was never worth picking as Moonkin, though (except for on Tsulong to burst heal and top the meters during day phase).
Druids, at one point, were quite versatile in raids but it was a matter of gear/skill. A lesser geared, lesser skilled Druid could often cover more than one spec in a raid. For example, during Black Temple, our server first kills of Rotface/Festergut were because I was able to switch in and out of kitty constantly while tanking in order to add extra DPS. Then I was able to pop out and rejuv the raid during spores. The extra DPS I was able to do enabled us to beat the enrage timer and the extra healing was just enough to help keep people up during gas. I even threw a few Moonfires out to help kill adds at times from a distance. In short it wasn't at all uncommon for druids in high end guilds to be able to contribute to tanking, dps, and healing all in the same fight. I suspect the changes to this are largely due to the skill ceiling being so high, thus causing druids at the top end to feel overpowered while druids at the bottom end felt too weak.
As far as active mitigation goes... it was definitely because of the removal of threat generation, but I don't really see why that was necessary in the first place. Tanking has become so brainless these days you can literally do it while tabbed out watching YouTube. The only reason for them to gut threat the way they did is because of all those god fucking awful tanks you see in five mans that can't hold aggro over your single Moonfire. God forbid when you have to pull an AOE pack and they're sitting there single target tanking while the other 90% of the pack runs around killing your healer and dps. The removal of CC from dungeons is related to the decline in player skill as well. Back in BC if you didn't know how to use your CCs you were kicked from the group. These days if you DO know how to use your CCs... you get kicked from the group. What a 180.
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Italy12246 Posts
Don't get me started on CC...in Cata i was super excited about getting that back, then i quit to play sc2 and now i keep reading the devs saying that the tuning in Cata dungeons was too harsh, which is just so so wrong T_T
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Except trillium farming and black prince rep, is there anything else I can do to finish the legendary quest as soon as possible, while I vait for valor?
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On June 20 2014 01:11 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 00:28 Teoita wrote:
To be fair Serejai, it's not like in TBC (or vanilla) you could realistically play all those roles at the same time, during any given encounter (or raid even, because of lack of dual spec). I haven't played a druid much, but the way Heart of the Wild works in MoP looks like a good compromise to me; as long as it still works in WoD, the hybrid theme of druids you mention should be ok. I do agree on guardian/feral spec though.
Regarding tanking, active mitigation is necessary when you decide to just get rid of threat generation, otherwise tanks would just kind of sit there getting beaten on. It's just a matter of, "what should a tank's rotation accomplish?" HoTW is very clunky and serves an extreme niche. Once per fight you can basically be useful outside of your current role for a few seconds. Could be better but overall it's an acceptable ability I guess. Was never worth picking as Moonkin, though (except for on Tsulong to burst heal and top the meters during day phase). Druids, at one point, were quite versatile in raids but it was a matter of gear/skill. A lesser geared, lesser skilled Druid could often cover more than one spec in a raid. For example, during Black Temple, our server first kills of Rotface/Festergut were because I was able to switch in and out of kitty constantly while tanking in order to add extra DPS. Then I was able to pop out and rejuv the raid during spores. The extra DPS I was able to do enabled us to beat the enrage timer and the extra healing was just enough to help keep people up during gas. I even threw a few Moonfires out to help kill adds at times from a distance. In short it wasn't at all uncommon for druids in high end guilds to be able to contribute to tanking, dps, and healing all in the same fight. I suspect the changes to this are largely due to the skill ceiling being so high, thus causing druids at the top end to feel overpowered while druids at the bottom end felt too weak. As far as active mitigation goes... it was definitely because of the removal of threat generation, but I don't really see why that was necessary in the first place. Tanking has become so brainless these days you can literally do it while tabbed out watching YouTube. The only reason for them to gut threat the way they did is because of all those god fucking awful tanks you see in five mans that can't hold aggro over your single Moonfire. God forbid when you have to pull an AOE pack and they're sitting there single target tanking while the other 90% of the pack runs around killing your healer and dps. The removal of CC from dungeons is related to the decline in player skill as well. Back in BC if you didn't know how to use your CCs you were kicked from the group. These days if you DO know how to use your CCs... you get kicked from the group. What a 180.
damn rotface and festergut in black temple?
did you see ragnaros there too
haha
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Naxx, Black Temple... same thing. I did, in fact, see Ragnaros in there too. He follows me around and occasionally does Pokemon battles for me.
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Italy12246 Posts
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EPT
