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Northern Ireland26341 Posts
On February 01 2020 00:39 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2020 00:00 Wombat_NI wrote:On January 31 2020 23:25 Shock710 wrote:On January 31 2020 22:44 Manit0u wrote:The worst thing is that all they had to do is improve the graphics, revamp the UI slightly and maybe redo the cinematic cutscenes. But no, they went and started changing a lot of other stuff, some of it pretty fundamental. The interplay between old and new could've been nice but I don't think it was ultimately necessary and trying to do it has retroactively broken a game that has been working perfectly for 16 years... I mean, even if you want to do so much, why not do it incrementally? Like, release the graphics and UI updates first. When it's fine and stable fix the multiplayer and start playing with other things like crossplay between versions. On January 31 2020 21:48 deacon.frost wrote:In the last 15 months or so, let's list those who failed their fans horribly: Bethesda, BioWare, Blizzard I can see a certain connection but I can't tell what exactly. At the same time I would be very careful if I were in some other companies like Bungie, Bandai Namco or Bohemia Interactive  Your list is incomplete though. It's missing EA (Fifa, especially Switch version, Madden), 2K (NBA and WWE), Ubisoft (Ghost Recon), Konami (Contra: Rogue Corps), Microsoft (Crackdown 3). Still, Bethesda got the worst of it with Fallout '76, Rage 2 and Wolfenstein: Youngblood. All super hyped, all super disappointing. They did do everything u just said, the graphics are better (just not preferable to alot of players because they are extremely use to the classic version its the same thing when wc3 dota was making the transition into dota2 and not just heros but the actual map dodads and terrain people get use to things) the iu is slightly revamped i doubt anyone that plays regularly would be happy with a whole new iu layout a simple icon upgrade is pretty much what they did. The cinematics are in higher quality although not "remade" and would be a huge task even the sc:r scenes didnt get remade. I call bullshit on the fudemental stuff...i play wc3 regularly and enter in mini leagues, i also played the reforged beta 1s and 2s a plenty. The game works fine after all it is just the classic game but with a art covering the new models. Apart from a extremely small amount of visual bugs (which are just simply going to be fixed next patch) eg: wardens inital shadow strike animation cant be easily seen making spell dodging with invuls hard vs that (very niche) the rest of the shadow strike damage over time is well represented. There are tiny things like that...almost inconsequential to gameplay. There are no mechanics that are different from classical. Almost everything has to do with the art over the classical engine (some of the trees art makes it look like ur clicking within the hit box but not) They mentioned the ranked ladder would not be up in the first season way before hand not to mention if anyone was really serious about climbing ladder netease has been the way to go for a long time and they still have their classical wc3 ladder up and running.Ive been running through the campaign and have had zero bugs, no unexpected errors and my laptop is pretty old. People want to complain and find their echo chamber to continue complaining take a break from reddit and just play the game yourself. What is it about the lost art of making ladders? Blizzard seemed to have it done fine a decade and a half ago. Such ladders exist yes, the whole main draw of Reforged (for me was to expand the playerbase, especially at the low end so people can just organically ladder and have a good time improving. I’d be serious about climbing a ladder, you just need that first rung to cling on to. I’m unsure as to what the standard of the low players is like on those WC3 ladders, if it’s anything like my experiences playing BW, Quake or other older games with veteran communities it’s tough even to get to the shape that you can know where you’re going wrong. An actual Reforged influx of players with a ladder, doesn’t even have to be a huge influx would have really softened that curve. They did indeed mention this though, so it wasn’t duplicitous on their part. Enough people seem to be having hardware issues, some with pretty good specs too that there’s probably something in that. Some have stated that it’s just compatibility issues with certain hardware and drivers, there’s a lot of variation out there and weird issues can arise. Truly new players are not going to the ladder...theyre playing the campagin even if some brave souls decide to ladder they would crushed in either the current pool of matchmaking or find themselves losing at a large rate before finding someone at their lvl. The amount of old/returning players greatly out numbers the new players. There just isnt enough players to have a good "bronze league" Most returning old players will also be heading into the campaign and unless youre a streamer or have no life i doubt many will even get up to the rexxar bonus campaign by the time ladder is released. The ladder is coming just invision this as a probational period i wouldnt be surprised if there was hidden mmr to test how it will look. Its not u cant host custom 1v1s either. I wont defend hardware issues because thats a seperate part from people claiming that the game itself is terrible. Show nested quote +On February 01 2020 00:10 Mohdoo wrote:On January 31 2020 23:25 Shock710 wrote:On January 31 2020 22:44 Manit0u wrote:The worst thing is that all they had to do is improve the graphics, revamp the UI slightly and maybe redo the cinematic cutscenes. But no, they went and started changing a lot of other stuff, some of it pretty fundamental. The interplay between old and new could've been nice but I don't think it was ultimately necessary and trying to do it has retroactively broken a game that has been working perfectly for 16 years... I mean, even if you want to do so much, why not do it incrementally? Like, release the graphics and UI updates first. When it's fine and stable fix the multiplayer and start playing with other things like crossplay between versions. On January 31 2020 21:48 deacon.frost wrote:In the last 15 months or so, let's list those who failed their fans horribly: Bethesda, BioWare, Blizzard I can see a certain connection but I can't tell what exactly. At the same time I would be very careful if I were in some other companies like Bungie, Bandai Namco or Bohemia Interactive Your list is incomplete though. It's missing EA (Fifa, especially Switch version, Madden), 2K (NBA and WWE), Ubisoft (Ghost Recon), Konami (Contra: Rogue Corps), Microsoft (Crackdown 3). Still, Bethesda got the worst of it with Fallout '76, Rage 2 and Wolfenstein: Youngblood. All super hyped, all super disappointing. They did do everything u just said, the graphics are better (just not preferable to alot of players because they are extremely use to the classic version its the same thing when wc3 dota was making the transition into dota2 and not just heros but the actual map dodads and terrain people get use to things) the iu is slightly revamped i doubt anyone that plays regularly would be happy with a whole new iu layout a simple icon upgrade is pretty much what they did. The cinematics are in higher quality although not "remade" and would be a huge task even the sc:r scenes didnt get remade. The graphics are higher resolution. They are not better. The graphics are extremely ugly and beneath Blizzard standards. Youre either baised or blind...go to any reforge unit comparison on youtube and you will see "graphics" have improved drastically if anything theyve done too detailed of a job making the birds eye view hard to distinguish (like between a ghoul and the skele from rod) no one without bias would call the reforged models ugly cpmpared to the classical one But again i believe some what of it comes being so use to what wc3 units look like. I had trouble with footmen vs militia at the begining of beta but its getting better and no doubt with the slightly more outstanding visuals like the at first too small bear and now too big these can be fixed easily. As for how this game will look in the next 3 months? I doubt it would increase drastically even if it had a magnificent launch with glowing reviews everywhere, rts games are just extremely punishing for those who dont want to commit and put in the time to learn the game indepth. The time where sc2 brought in a healthy pool of bronze/silver/gold league players is gone. Everyone wants to play with friends not vs them in a 1v1. rts games just arent what people like right now nothing about reforged would have changed that (the value of custom games with friends has also diminished with other game titles filling the role with better alternatives)
Perhaps, these things live and die on retaining a playerbase, and a certain playerbase too.
My own bubble were mostly people burnt out on SC2 who wanted a new challenge, myself I had some scores to settle now I am vaguely competent at RTS.
It is a niche genre for sure, perhaps even with a great launch and better marketing push it still wouldn’t have revitalised things and people like myself were unrealistically optimistic in that regard, but that any potential has been squandered is frustrating in the extreme.
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I think this is why Morhaime retired when he did. A decision was likely made a while ago to give Reforged extremely constrained resources and to force a release date. Morhaime knew it would be a disaster and completely destroy one of Blizzard's proudest creations. I think he could stand to see this happen. And here we are.
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On February 01 2020 01:33 Mohdoo wrote:
I think this is why Morhaime retired when he did. A decision was likely made a while ago to give Reforged extremely constrained resources and to force a release date. Morhaime knew it would be a disaster and completely destroy one of Blizzard's proudest creations. I think he could stand to see this happen. And here we are.
I don't think the dates line up for that theory. Mike announced his retirement in October 2018. The Reforged announcement and demo looked pretty decent at Blizzcon a month later. It's possible that the cuts happened as he was on the way out or after he already left in the following April.
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I just hoped for W3 with a bit better graphics and a decent ladder system.
From what i gather this isn't there?
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On February 01 2020 01:51 Velr wrote:
I just hoped for W3 with a bit better graphics and a decent ladder system.
From what i gather this isn't there?
No ladder indeed, will be patch in at some point, we don't know when. You don't even have a profile or stats. Stuff that was in the original is gone  (for now).
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Completed the Human campaign but didn't get the portrait I should have... Is it only for Reforged? If yes they should make it clearer.
Yesterday I got like 4 joinbugs out of ~20 games in 4v4. At some point I was also expelled from one of the games: instant score screen without any message. Uh... Imagine if the same thing happens in competitive games? How can the pro scene work if the integrity of the games is threatened by random bugs like this?
The lack of MMR is really bad. I encounter way too many noobies, the games are horribly one-sided. At least I can farm the portraits fast...
The loading times are way longer than before, they need to work on that. In 4v4, waiting one minute before the launch of the game is not rare. And they need to fix fast the fact that you have to restart the game at every joinbug.
Edit—Oh, I forgot. It seems that when someone from another server (e.g. Asia) is in the game, everyone now shares his 400 ms ping, making it pretty much unplayable for everyone. Had the case this afternoon, many people just left upon seeing the high ping...
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If anyone still has their 1.31 Netease installation (in English), please PM me.
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Not quite. What I was looking for is pure 1.31 before all this yucky nonsense. I got what I needed and I appreciate you linking me that. There is a google drive link floating around the competitive community for everyone who lost their netease install from this pile of garbage.
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Northern Ireland26341 Posts
On February 01 2020 06:47 Mohdoo wrote:Not quite. What I was looking for is pure 1.31 before all this yucky nonsense. I got what I needed and I appreciate you linking me that. There is a google drive link floating around the competitive community for everyone who lost their netease install from this pile of garbage.
Is there a one-stop shop for all things WC3 related?
I remember having difficulties finding everything I needed, although I eventually got there.
Things like the fullscreen command, which changed took me ages to find. Hell even the installer is a pain in the ass to find. I have my CDs and manuals still, but no disc drive lol.
From what I’ve read it seems Reforged may fuck up what I’d got working about 6 months ago for a full campaign play through.
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On February 01 2020 08:20 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2020 06:47 Mohdoo wrote:Not quite. What I was looking for is pure 1.31 before all this yucky nonsense. I got what I needed and I appreciate you linking me that. There is a google drive link floating around the competitive community for everyone who lost their netease install from this pile of garbage. Is there a one-stop shop for all things WC3 related? I remember having difficulties finding everything I needed, although I eventually got there. Things like the fullscreen command, which changed took me ages to find. Hell even the installer is a pain in the ass to find. I have my CDs and manuals still, but no disc drive lol. From what I’ve read it seems Reforged may fuck up what I’d got working about 6 months ago for a full campaign play through.
Most stuff seems mostly fixed in 1.31. One thing that is CRAZY is the fact that once you have 1.31 for Netease running, if you open the Bnet client (not even WC3, just the Bnet client to play hearthstone or something), they will find your 1.31 folder and convert it to reforged. Its fucking crazy. So now I either play WC3 or any other Blizzard game.
EASY CHOICE!
Edit: I am officially back on Netease. Deleting Battle.net client because fuck Blizzard games at this point.
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I don't get the doom. It's a bit underdone but everything is working fine for me. I like (most of) the new graphics and no more us east/west and the returning playerbase has made find RT games of all sizes very easy. Ladder would be nice but if you look at this first patch as the preseason many other competitive have it's not that dramatic.
I appreciate that others could be having technical issues that don't apply to me but given the frivolous and often false nature of a lot of the complaints (very tired of hearing about how theres no matchmaking) it's hard not to see the collective hate boner the community has here as an emotional response to something they used for a long time being changed rather than a sober analysis of a game they supposedly want to see succeed and grow. The frenzied anticipation with the future of the game (and yes, reforged is the future of wc3) they supposedly love having the lowest possible score on metacritic is pretty gross in particular. There's no way this game is a 0.
Reforged as a product is definitely on the path to being a modern, quality product that will draw in new players and breathe life into this great game that will make it last another decade. Currently it's the "community" that's killing it, not blizzard (imperfect as they are). Grubbys recent take on the drama was a good one and I recommend that the people who claim to love this game listen to it and think about the longer term consequences of throwing their toys out of the cot.
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On February 01 2020 13:21 Amarok wrote:
I don't get the doom. It's a bit underdone but everything is working fine for me. I like (most of) the new graphics and no more us east/west and the returning playerbase has made find RT games of all sizes very easy. Ladder would be nice but if you look at this first patch as the preseason many other competitive have it's not that dramatic.
I appreciate that others could be having technical issues that don't apply to me but given the frivolous and often false nature of a lot of the complaints (very tired of hearing about how theres no matchmaking) it's hard not to see the collective hate boner the community has here as an emotional response to something they used for a long time being changed rather than a sober analysis of a game they supposedly want to see succeed and grow. The frenzied anticipation with the future of the game (and yes, reforged is the future of wc3) they supposedly love having the lowest possible score on metacritic is pretty gross in particular. There's no way this game is a 0.
Reforged as a product is definitely on the path to being a modern, quality product that will draw in new players and breathe life into this great game that will make it last another decade. Currently it's the "community" that's killing it, not blizzard (imperfect as they are). Grubbys recent take on the drama was a good one and I recommend that the people who claim to love this game listen to it and think about the longer term consequences of throwing their toys out of the cot.
When you as a business do not give high priority to customer satisfaction, you get whatever backlash you deserve.
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Phew... I was almost baited into pre-ordering Reforged until I realized that it will probably be an unfinished product full of bugs when I saw the launch delay.
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On February 01 2020 13:21 Amarok wrote:
I don't get the doom. It's a bit underdone but everything is working fine for me. I like (most of) the new graphics and no more us east/west and the returning playerbase has made find RT games of all sizes very easy. Ladder would be nice but if you look at this first patch as the preseason many other competitive have it's not that dramatic.
I appreciate that others could be having technical issues that don't apply to me but given the frivolous and often false nature of a lot of the complaints (very tired of hearing about how theres no matchmaking) it's hard not to see the collective hate boner the community has here as an emotional response to something they used for a long time being changed rather than a sober analysis of a game they supposedly want to see succeed and grow. The frenzied anticipation with the future of the game (and yes, reforged is the future of wc3) they supposedly love having the lowest possible score on metacritic is pretty gross in particular. There's no way this game is a 0.
Reforged as a product is definitely on the path to being a modern, quality product that will draw in new players and breathe life into this great game that will make it last another decade. Currently it's the "community" that's killing it, not blizzard (imperfect as they are). Grubbys recent take on the drama was a good one and I recommend that the people who claim to love this game listen to it and think about the longer term consequences of throwing their toys out of the cot.
It's astonishing how lots of people consider a newly released game for what it could be in the future, and not for what it is now, when you have already paid the price (or for their promises)...
They keep releasing unfinished/unpolished products even with these kind of shitstorms... imagine what they would do if people would settle for this and think "meh, they cut off a lot of stuff and it's terribly unpolished, but I guess it will be a good game in 6 months...".
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Northern Ireland26341 Posts
On February 01 2020 13:21 Amarok wrote:
I don't get the doom. It's a bit underdone but everything is working fine for me. I like (most of) the new graphics and no more us east/west and the returning playerbase has made find RT games of all sizes very easy. Ladder would be nice but if you look at this first patch as the preseason many other competitive have it's not that dramatic.
I appreciate that others could be having technical issues that don't apply to me but given the frivolous and often false nature of a lot of the complaints (very tired of hearing about how theres no matchmaking) it's hard not to see the collective hate boner the community has here as an emotional response to something they used for a long time being changed rather than a sober analysis of a game they supposedly want to see succeed and grow. The frenzied anticipation with the future of the game (and yes, reforged is the future of wc3) they supposedly love having the lowest possible score on metacritic is pretty gross in particular. There's no way this game is a 0.
Reforged as a product is definitely on the path to being a modern, quality product that will draw in new players and breathe life into this great game that will make it last another decade. Currently it's the "community" that's killing it, not blizzard (imperfect as they are). Grubbys recent take on the drama was a good one and I recommend that the people who claim to love this game listen to it and think about the longer term consequences of throwing their toys out of the cot.
I’m rather torn on this issue. I had my time with Warcraft 3 back in the day, it was only really with SC2 that I got even semi-competent at RTS and started playing a lot of 1v1. Made a lot of friends in the local scene and many of us fancied a change from SC2 as our RTS fix.
It was only with Reforged’s announcement that many of us decided to give WC3 a proper shot. While I was personally fine playing the original, others who were new were waiting to play the reimagining. From what I can tell from Grubby’s Twitch chat quite a few he’d converted to be interested were waiting for Reforged to try it out.
My sole excitement came from the possibility of new players coming in, a more active ladder that’s easier to access. I played the campaign in the original pretty recently and had a good time.
For others who have got it and played through the campaign for the first time that I know they’ve largely found it fine.
0 is ridiculous and hyperbolic and will kill a whole bunch of the potential. Not just from WC3 fans either but that whole cottage industry that makes a living from complaining (often rightly in fairness) about the practices of the gaming industry are sticking the boot in as well.
On the other hand I do feel this is an industry-wide problem and it’s especially a shame it’s occurred to one of my favourite games. As much as I’d like to allow my love for the game shine through, really at some stage as a consumer one has to just stop buying glorified betas being released as full products.
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On February 01 2020 16:10 meegrean wrote:
Phew... I was almost baited into pre-ordering Reforged until I realized that it will probably be an unfinished product full of bugs when I saw the launch delay.
I did pre-order it. At the time it seemed like a good thing and I'm not opposed to giving the team an influx of money so they can keep working on it. Do not regret it (the thing with pre-orders is that there's always some risk involved) but won't be pre-ordering anything else from Blizzard since they have disappointed me with this.
Right now I'll just wait some time until they iron out the worst issues, replay the awesome campaign and not sure if I'll be returning to the ladder since I'm too old for this crap now and I don't have a ton of time on my hands like I used to.
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On February 01 2020 20:55 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2020 16:10 meegrean wrote:
Phew... I was almost baited into pre-ordering Reforged until I realized that it will probably be an unfinished product full of bugs when I saw the launch delay. I did pre-order it. At the time it seemed like a good thing and I'm not opposed to giving the team an influx of money so they can keep working on it. Do not regret it (the thing with pre-orders is that there's always some risk involved) but won't be pre-ordering anything else from Blizzard since they have disappointed me with this. Right now I'll just wait some time until they iron out the worst issues, replay the awesome campaign and not sure if I'll be returning to the ladder since I'm too old for this crap now and I don't have a ton of time on my hands like I used to.
There is no ladder so there is nothing for you to return to 
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EPT
