Yea, but most of the times Onyxia was looking like that: (start from 2:30 if you don't have time to watch full)
Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
I remember doing onyxia six man. My wand almost broke up (i played horde, so no salvation). Definitly a great fun and tense moment.
On June 26 2013 20:00 Jibba wrote:
The only real worthwhile AP build imo was AP/Shatter because you were getting 2k+ frostbolts with like 70% crit but even then it was just for taking on 1 or 2 people and not particularly resilient without Iceblock (although it was actually fantastic for Ragnaros.) 30/21 PoM builds were really the way to go for PvP.
For PvP, either pure frost or elementalist was the best build. If your party had one or two locks and you were doing WSG, there absolutely not a single reason have one lock with DM plus soul link to make AP POM pyro trains cry.
On June 08 2013 23:31 Jibba wrote: I think PvP was actually less about zerging. It was much more possible to win 1v2/3 fights than it is today.
Yeah because people were horribad. I was also one of those doing open pvp, taking out several people alone while they were going to their raids, farming in silithus or whatever. I thought I was one of best PvPers around until arenas came about and I found out that I was actually quite bad. :D
Well, and crowd control was much stronger and there was true burst damage. Burst damage doesn't really exist anymore, unless it's from a team.
Someone hasn't played 5s 2400+, where half the games someone dies in the first 20 seconds of the fight.
Although 2v2 has become really ridiculous, it's spend 15 minutes not being able to out damage/cc the healing until one team gets bored and makes a massive mistake.
I really miss the old 2v2 days where resilience wasn't as stupid.
you mean when random procs and illidan/sunwell gear decided the outcome arena? (sword,mace procs,wf etc etc)
lets be realistic here. wow arena always was a huge clusterfuck.
On June 08 2013 23:31 Jibba wrote: I think PvP was actually less about zerging. It was much more possible to win 1v2/3 fights than it is today.
Yeah because people were horribad. I was also one of those doing open pvp, taking out several people alone while they were going to their raids, farming in silithus or whatever. I thought I was one of best PvPers around until arenas came about and I found out that I was actually quite bad. :D
Well, and crowd control was much stronger and there was true burst damage. Burst damage doesn't really exist anymore, unless it's from a team.
Someone hasn't played 5s 2400+, where half the games someone dies in the first 20 seconds of the fight.
Although 2v2 has become really ridiculous, it's spend 15 minutes not being able to out damage/cc the healing until one team gets bored and makes a massive mistake.
I really miss the old 2v2 days where resilience wasn't as stupid.
you mean when random procs and illidan/sunwell gear decided the outcome arena? (sword,mace procs,wf etc etc)
lets be realistic here. wow arena always was a huge clusterfuck.
RNG and PvE gear is the one huge downside of TBC arenas. It's really annoying at times.
I had a lot of fun glitching the bg's and raids back in the day. Is wall jumping/scaling in the game? Or are the walls all smooth like the WOTLK build?
On July 04 2013 03:37 DnameIN wrote: Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
The thing is that you dont get excited when there is no danger or when you are not "living on the edge" ... and having the risk of going OOM and having to be smart enough to manage it was part of the charm. With better gear it eventually became too easy and thus boring. That is one of the charms of vanilla and the teamwork of donating an Innervate to another caster in need was what made it cool. Eventually they "generalized" classes and made them self-sufficient and "inter-exchangeable" and that was terrible for the style of the game.
Another thing which annoyed me about the whole concept of WoW expansions is the jumps in the gear. You got to level 60, raided a lot with your friends and got purples, but once you hit 61 in the next expansion EVERYTHING became totally worthless because the random greens were twice as good as raid purples. Kinda made raiding pointless except for the experience of seeing it. Maybe they should have used a different concept of "upgrade tokens" for raid loot so you kinda have to start somewhere and then add a spoonful of plusses where you need / want. The same "gear stat explosion" happened in other games as well, because I stopped playing Everquest with about 1500 hp, but a few years later the same type of caster would have 10k+ hp easily. In EQ I had totally nonmagical but cuddly soft lion skin boots until level 53 or so and wasnt too shabby as an enchanter ... The Gear progression curve somewhat ruins these games because people dont see the consequence of "more more more" and the developers think they make their customers happy by giving them A LOT more more more next time around ... a sad trend I see for Starcraft 2 as well.
On July 04 2013 03:37 DnameIN wrote: Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
The thing is that you dont get excited when there is no danger or when you are not "living on the edge" ... and having the risk of going OOM and having to be smart enough to manage it was part of the charm. With better gear it eventually became too easy and thus boring. That is one of the charms of vanilla and the teamwork of donating an Innervate to another caster in need was what made it cool. Eventually they "generalized" classes and made them self-sufficient and "inter-exchangeable" and that was terrible for the style of the game.
Another thing which annoyed me about the whole concept of WoW expansions is the jumps in the gear. You got to level 60, raided a lot with your friends and got purples, but once you hit 61 in the next expansion EVERYTHING became totally worthless because the random greens were twice as good as raid purples. Kinda made raiding pointless except for the experience of seeing it. Maybe they should have used a different concept of "upgrade tokens" for raid loot so you kinda have to start somewhere and then add a spoonful of plusses where you need / want. The same "gear stat explosion" happened in other games as well, because I stopped playing Everquest with about 1500 hp, but a few years later the same type of caster would have 10k+ hp easily. In EQ I had totally nonmagical but cuddly soft lion skin boots until level 53 or so and wasnt too shabby as an enchanter ... The Gear progression curve somewhat ruins these games because people dont see the consequence of "more more more" and the developers think they make their customers happy by giving them A LOT more more more next time around ... a sad trend I see for Starcraft 2 as well.
If they didn't make the previous' expansion's gear obsolete when a new one came out, you would have to go through all of the old raids just to get the new expansion's content. That's like, probably close to 30 raids now? I don't think that would be fun.
On July 04 2013 03:37 DnameIN wrote: Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
The thing is that you dont get excited when there is no danger or when you are not "living on the edge" ... and having the risk of going OOM and having to be smart enough to manage it was part of the charm. With better gear it eventually became too easy and thus boring. That is one of the charms of vanilla and the teamwork of donating an Innervate to another caster in need was what made it cool. Eventually they "generalized" classes and made them self-sufficient and "inter-exchangeable" and that was terrible for the style of the game.
Another thing which annoyed me about the whole concept of WoW expansions is the jumps in the gear. You got to level 60, raided a lot with your friends and got purples, but once you hit 61 in the next expansion EVERYTHING became totally worthless because the random greens were twice as good as raid purples. Kinda made raiding pointless except for the experience of seeing it. Maybe they should have used a different concept of "upgrade tokens" for raid loot so you kinda have to start somewhere and then add a spoonful of plusses where you need / want. The same "gear stat explosion" happened in other games as well, because I stopped playing Everquest with about 1500 hp, but a few years later the same type of caster would have 10k+ hp easily. In EQ I had totally nonmagical but cuddly soft lion skin boots until level 53 or so and wasnt too shabby as an enchanter ... The Gear progression curve somewhat ruins these games because people dont see the consequence of "more more more" and the developers think they make their customers happy by giving them A LOT more more more next time around ... a sad trend I see for Starcraft 2 as well.
If they didn't make the previous' expansion's gear obsolete when a new one came out, you would have to go through all of the old raids just to get the new expansion's content. That's like, probably close to 30 raids now? I don't think that would be fun.
Not really ... if they made the expansion content - the regular "kill 10 Orcs" junk - just a little bit tougher. They didnt do that and introduced a "jump" and a progressively steeper increase of numbers (i.e. damage dealt, healing, armor, hit points, ...) which required that the NPCs follow a similar progression. That is a terrible concept. As long as the leveling is not terribly boring there is no problem with players being a little bit undergeared if they didnt do all the raids.
Oh and one question: What is so terrible about content being HARD to go through?
A challenge is always good, but todays kids want to rush towards the end game and forget to enjoy the leveling (because WoW trained them to behave like that). Kids just want to get to the end and have the biggest d... around which they can then show off and brag about. That is why PvP is so popular, but WoW has a "category" called MMORPG and nowhere is there a "P" in it for the "PvP part, but there is an "RP" in it for "roleplaying" ... which mean "having fun with friends".
Btw ... you have to start raiding with regular gear, so a slow progression of gear would work easily and there is only one reason for the jump: they are catering to the powerlevling, lazy and whining kiddies who want to rush to the end instead of enjoying the way they get there as well. Generally you have enough time between the release of an expansion and the next for most of the population of a server to get at least some higher level dungeon or raid gear. That should be enough for a slow progression and green gear in "the next expansion" usually is MUCH better than raid gear ... which is bad.
if you want a populated vanilla realm(1x rates/blizzlike) with gradual content release try this one: https://www.emeralddream.com/
last content release was BWL, so it's still pretty early and a good time to get in. like on all private realms you will find none without bugs but on this one i really had the best feeling, everything is 99% classic.
edit: for those who are interested in a blizzlike(for the most part) with gradual content release TBC server: https://www.worldofcorecraft.com/
this one is still in development but it's already pretty known across the scene and it will probably be pretty populated once it is released. a very promising project so far, the devs seem to know what they are doing. planning to give this one a shot too, interesting for those who want to be a part of a project from the very start on.
On July 04 2013 03:37 DnameIN wrote: Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
The thing is that you dont get excited when there is no danger or when you are not "living on the edge" ... and having the risk of going OOM and having to be smart enough to manage it was part of the charm. With better gear it eventually became too easy and thus boring. That is one of the charms of vanilla and the teamwork of donating an Innervate to another caster in need was what made it cool. Eventually they "generalized" classes and made them self-sufficient and "inter-exchangeable" and that was terrible for the style of the game.
Another thing which annoyed me about the whole concept of WoW expansions is the jumps in the gear. You got to level 60, raided a lot with your friends and got purples, but once you hit 61 in the next expansion EVERYTHING became totally worthless because the random greens were twice as good as raid purples. Kinda made raiding pointless except for the experience of seeing it. Maybe they should have used a different concept of "upgrade tokens" for raid loot so you kinda have to start somewhere and then add a spoonful of plusses where you need / want. The same "gear stat explosion" happened in other games as well, because I stopped playing Everquest with about 1500 hp, but a few years later the same type of caster would have 10k+ hp easily. In EQ I had totally nonmagical but cuddly soft lion skin boots until level 53 or so and wasnt too shabby as an enchanter ... The Gear progression curve somewhat ruins these games because people dont see the consequence of "more more more" and the developers think they make their customers happy by giving them A LOT more more more next time around ... a sad trend I see for Starcraft 2 as well.
If they didn't make the previous' expansion's gear obsolete when a new one came out, you would have to go through all of the old raids just to get the new expansion's content. That's like, probably close to 30 raids now? I don't think that would be fun.
Not really ... if they made the expansion content - the regular "kill 10 Orcs" junk - just a little bit tougher. They didnt do that and introduced a "jump" and a progressively steeper increase of numbers (i.e. damage dealt, healing, armor, hit points, ...) which required that the NPCs follow a similar progression. That is a terrible concept. As long as the leveling is not terribly boring there is no problem with players being a little bit undergeared if they didnt do all the raids.
Oh and one question: What is so terrible about content being HARD to go through?
A challenge is always good, but todays kids want to rush towards the end game and forget to enjoy the leveling (because WoW trained them to behave like that). Kids just want to get to the end and have the biggest d... around which they can then show off and brag about. That is why PvP is so popular, but WoW has a "category" called MMORPG and nowhere is there a "P" in it for the "PvP part, but there is an "RP" in it for "roleplaying" ... which mean "having fun with friends".
Btw ... you have to start raiding with regular gear, so a slow progression of gear would work easily and there is only one reason for the jump: they are catering to the powerlevling, lazy and whining kiddies who want to rush to the end instead of enjoying the way they get there as well. Generally you have enough time between the release of an expansion and the next for most of the population of a server to get at least some higher level dungeon or raid gear. That should be enough for a slow progression and green gear in "the next expansion" usually is MUCH better than raid gear ... which is bad.
If you make the green gear you get in an expansion just a slight step above the green gear you get in the previous one, then any expansion content would be trivialized by the purples. For instance, Karazhan, Magtheridon and Gruul would have to be doable with expansion gear AND Ahn'qiraj/Naxxramas gear. So at some point that gear has to be a similar level. They also want to encourage you to actually run expansion dungeons, rather than just run your raid straight into Serpentshrine Caven using Naxxramas gear.
Every expansion should be seen as a new game, where the playing field is somewhat reset and everybody is equal again for a little while. You're not crying that your sweet Scarlet Monastery gear is made obsolete along the way, so why is it bad that raid gear is made obsolete?
I think you are under-rating how good naxx gear was. Apart from having much lower stamina than TBC gear, it held it's own throughout the levelling process and into level 70 dungeons. I remember many people who still had more than half of their slots filled with naxx items until they replaced them with Kara items.
On July 08 2013 02:05 hzflank wrote: I think you are under-rating how good naxx gear was. Apart from having much lower stamina than TBC gear, it held it's own throughout the levelling process and into level 70 dungeons. I remember many people who still had more than half of their slots filled with naxx items until they replaced them with Kara items.
That too. I didn't even get past BWL and I hadn't replaced things like OH and trinket (if I recall correctly, could have been other pieces, but I know there were one or two pieces that were very hard to replace) before entering Kara (most of the rest I got from heroic dungeons).
Of course, some pieces got replaced by a random green drop or a pretty blue quest item, but it was quite okay.
On July 04 2013 03:37 DnameIN wrote: Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
The thing is that you dont get excited when there is no danger or when you are not "living on the edge" ... and having the risk of going OOM and having to be smart enough to manage it was part of the charm. With better gear it eventually became too easy and thus boring. That is one of the charms of vanilla and the teamwork of donating an Innervate to another caster in need was what made it cool. Eventually they "generalized" classes and made them self-sufficient and "inter-exchangeable" and that was terrible for the style of the game.
Another thing which annoyed me about the whole concept of WoW expansions is the jumps in the gear. You got to level 60, raided a lot with your friends and got purples, but once you hit 61 in the next expansion EVERYTHING became totally worthless because the random greens were twice as good as raid purples. Kinda made raiding pointless except for the experience of seeing it. Maybe they should have used a different concept of "upgrade tokens" for raid loot so you kinda have to start somewhere and then add a spoonful of plusses where you need / want. The same "gear stat explosion" happened in other games as well, because I stopped playing Everquest with about 1500 hp, but a few years later the same type of caster would have 10k+ hp easily. In EQ I had totally nonmagical but cuddly soft lion skin boots until level 53 or so and wasnt too shabby as an enchanter ... The Gear progression curve somewhat ruins these games because people dont see the consequence of "more more more" and the developers think they make their customers happy by giving them A LOT more more more next time around ... a sad trend I see for Starcraft 2 as well.
As far as i remember MC gear was good until 62/63, BWL gear 66/67, Naxx all the way until 70. That's generalizing it a little but itemization+set bonuses beat out the puny greens often times. I never played at the beginning of other expansions so i can't confirm but my cata gear from FL lasted 2 levels (only a 5 level expansion and FL wasn't highest tier) which seemed about right...it was non heroic gear, im pretty sure heroic gear lasted til lvl 88 comfortably.
On July 04 2013 03:37 DnameIN wrote: Don't get me wrong, I miss those times;) I was priest back then, there was no room for error and you landed OOM soon after start of the fight. If you knew "stuff", you could go OOM in the middle of encounter, rest of the time you had to be creative to actually be usefull.
The thing is that you dont get excited when there is no danger or when you are not "living on the edge" ... and having the risk of going OOM and having to be smart enough to manage it was part of the charm. With better gear it eventually became too easy and thus boring. That is one of the charms of vanilla and the teamwork of donating an Innervate to another caster in need was what made it cool. Eventually they "generalized" classes and made them self-sufficient and "inter-exchangeable" and that was terrible for the style of the game.
Another thing which annoyed me about the whole concept of WoW expansions is the jumps in the gear. You got to level 60, raided a lot with your friends and got purples, but once you hit 61 in the next expansion EVERYTHING became totally worthless because the random greens were twice as good as raid purples. Kinda made raiding pointless except for the experience of seeing it. Maybe they should have used a different concept of "upgrade tokens" for raid loot so you kinda have to start somewhere and then add a spoonful of plusses where you need / want. The same "gear stat explosion" happened in other games as well, because I stopped playing Everquest with about 1500 hp, but a few years later the same type of caster would have 10k+ hp easily. In EQ I had totally nonmagical but cuddly soft lion skin boots until level 53 or so and wasnt too shabby as an enchanter ... The Gear progression curve somewhat ruins these games because people dont see the consequence of "more more more" and the developers think they make their customers happy by giving them A LOT more more more next time around ... a sad trend I see for Starcraft 2 as well.
If they didn't make the previous' expansion's gear obsolete when a new one came out, you would have to go through all of the old raids just to get the new expansion's content. That's like, probably close to 30 raids now? I don't think that would be fun.
Not really ... if they made the expansion content - the regular "kill 10 Orcs" junk - just a little bit tougher. They didnt do that and introduced a "jump" and a progressively steeper increase of numbers (i.e. damage dealt, healing, armor, hit points, ...) which required that the NPCs follow a similar progression. That is a terrible concept. As long as the leveling is not terribly boring there is no problem with players being a little bit undergeared if they didnt do all the raids.
Oh and one question: What is so terrible about content being HARD to go through?
A challenge is always good, but todays kids want to rush towards the end game and forget to enjoy the leveling (because WoW trained them to behave like that). Kids just want to get to the end and have the biggest d... around which they can then show off and brag about. That is why PvP is so popular, but WoW has a "category" called MMORPG and nowhere is there a "P" in it for the "PvP part, but there is an "RP" in it for "roleplaying" ... which mean "having fun with friends".
Btw ... you have to start raiding with regular gear, so a slow progression of gear would work easily and there is only one reason for the jump: they are catering to the powerlevling, lazy and whining kiddies who want to rush to the end instead of enjoying the way they get there as well. Generally you have enough time between the release of an expansion and the next for most of the population of a server to get at least some higher level dungeon or raid gear. That should be enough for a slow progression and green gear in "the next expansion" usually is MUCH better than raid gear ... which is bad.
And how exactly does this kill the fun part for you? Why do you care that green items are better than purple when you're having fun with friends? Is it the kids who just want to have the biggest d because their greens are better or is it people like you who want to have the biggest d because they raided in the previous content and want their purples to be the best for as long as possible to show off more? Leveling is just such a short timeframe compared to endgame content, i dont understand how anyone can possibly say it is of any importance in the greater picture and how it killed the fun. Also people are constantly leveling new chars. How retarded would it be if you had to raid at lvl 60, then at lvl 70, then at lvl 80 just to be able to progress further because the green leveling gear was complete garbage? Hell, in mop they even put vendors who sell a full set of green stuff with the proper ilvl for the zone whenever you advance to a new area.
So, thanks to this topic, I couldn't resist, and, for a first time tried WoW on private serwer. Since WotLK I was missing vanillia times, so Emerald Dream serwer with 1x ratio was looking perfectly.
Looks like my old addiction is coming back I guess;P Before launching the client I had no idea how much fun I will have playing WoW again. Seriously, I was expecting to play few hours, realise that old times will never come back and dump the client deep into the recycled bin. But I didn't...
Instead, I was enjoyng hard gameplay. I mean, seriously, my mind was almost blown away seeing how easy WoW is now compared to vanilia. Another dangerous moment for my mind was in Deadmines, where I witnesed two mages using polymorph.
And server is full of life. To be honest, last time I was playing official WoW, I had bigger feeling of being alone in empty world. This is not issue here. Main chat is filled with players spamming old good LFG/LFM's for all instances. Can't wait to fight through them all again;) Damn it, Scholo, BRD, Strat... Tier 0 sets... My God, I am doomed;P
As for Emerald Dream server, there are not significant bugs. Actually, I have a feeling that real vanillia had more issues.
On July 16 2013 20:07 DnameIN wrote: So, thanks to this topic, I couldn't resist, and, for a first time tried WoW on private serwer. Since WotLK I was missing vanillia times, so Emerald Dream serwer with 1x ratio was looking perfectly.
Looks like my old addiction is coming back I guess;P Before launching the client I had no idea how much fun I will have playing WoW again. Seriously, I was expecting to play few hours, realise that old times will never come back and dump the client deep into the recycled bin. But I didn't...
Instead, I was enjoyng hard gameplay. I mean, seriously, my mind was almost blown away seeing how easy WoW is now compared to vanilia. Another dangerous moment for my mind was in Deadmines, where I witnesed two mages using polymorph.
And server is full of life. To be honest, last time I was playing official WoW, I had bigger feeling of being alone in empty world. This is not issue here. Main chat is filled with players spamming old good LFG/LFM's for all instances. Can't wait to fight through them all again;) Damn it, Scholo, BRD, Strat... Tier 0 sets... My God, I am doomed;P
As for Emerald Dream server, there are not significant bugs. Actually, I have a feeling that real vanillia had more issues.
Well there are more the more you play, a lot of the scripted quests can be broken if multiple people try to do them (looking at you Missing Diplomat) and there are a couple of very mats-efficient enchants that are absolutely broken (Agi to cloak I'm looking at you) and from what I hear, add behavior on some bosses is more retarded than usual, but that's about it.
I'm having fun on that server, up to lvl 36 priest (Svelte) on the alliance side.
Edit: Also, last I checked, AV was ridiculously broken Alliance side (alliance rams are accidently 65 instead of 55 and horde can't spawn ice lord). So that's their priority atm.