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semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
June 24 2013 00:38 GMT
#3661
On June 24 2013 09:36 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
On June 24 2013 05:57 woody60707 wrote:
So the whole rumour about the Timed demos on the family share was false. MS has generated so much hate over there XBone, people will believe anything bad about it now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


Can we please be honest about this? No one knows anything about the family share thing, I'm even sure MS was even going back and forth on a ton of shit. Which is why they never said anything "concrete" about the feature and you had so many separate things being said about the feature from MS themselves. They never demo'd it in real time and nothing was finalized other than calling it "family share". Nobody will know exactly what it was or is meant to be until they eventually implement. So all the positives and negatives about a system that never existed is completely pointless. That includes people "hating" on it and people now wishing MS continued with it.

Everything is PR bullshit until I see a fully functioning system in the hands of the consumer with "family share" enabled. Only then can people make up their minds if it's a positive or a negative. A feature like "family share" sounds absolutely great as a general concept but, the devil is always in the details with programs/features like that. Especially when it could've opened a huge can of worms if not implemented properly.


This is what happens when a company tip-toes with their information. If information is given out in snippets and general confusion as a whole, it will lead to masses of people trying to fill the void with whatever they find. Microsoft could have been more upfront with their information but instead they chose not to and this is the result.

Tell that to Sony, the fault with Microsoft is that they got off on a bad foot. So now everyone just assumes and accepts it's worse and worse. Sony has been just as vague about shit but no one assumes the worst or complains too much because they didn't start off bad.
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
June 24 2013 00:48 GMT
#3662
On June 24 2013 09:38 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 09:36 Nilrem wrote:
On June 24 2013 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
On June 24 2013 05:57 woody60707 wrote:
So the whole rumour about the Timed demos on the family share was false. MS has generated so much hate over there XBone, people will believe anything bad about it now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


Can we please be honest about this? No one knows anything about the family share thing, I'm even sure MS was even going back and forth on a ton of shit. Which is why they never said anything "concrete" about the feature and you had so many separate things being said about the feature from MS themselves. They never demo'd it in real time and nothing was finalized other than calling it "family share". Nobody will know exactly what it was or is meant to be until they eventually implement. So all the positives and negatives about a system that never existed is completely pointless. That includes people "hating" on it and people now wishing MS continued with it.

Everything is PR bullshit until I see a fully functioning system in the hands of the consumer with "family share" enabled. Only then can people make up their minds if it's a positive or a negative. A feature like "family share" sounds absolutely great as a general concept but, the devil is always in the details with programs/features like that. Especially when it could've opened a huge can of worms if not implemented properly.


This is what happens when a company tip-toes with their information. If information is given out in snippets and general confusion as a whole, it will lead to masses of people trying to fill the void with whatever they find. Microsoft could have been more upfront with their information but instead they chose not to and this is the result.

Tell that to Sony, the fault with Microsoft is that they got off on a bad foot. So now everyone just assumes and accepts it's worse and worse. Sony has been just as vague about shit but no one assumes the worst or complains too much because they didn't start off bad.


Sony has been just as vague? With what? They said no drm, no regions, you have to pay for psn, with psn you will be getting new games every month, the system doesn't require the eye system to turn on, netflix and things are free, etc. Every single feature or non feature they have been very upfront about.
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
June 24 2013 01:01 GMT
#3663
On June 24 2013 09:38 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 09:36 Nilrem wrote:
On June 24 2013 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
On June 24 2013 05:57 woody60707 wrote:
So the whole rumour about the Timed demos on the family share was false. MS has generated so much hate over there XBone, people will believe anything bad about it now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


Can we please be honest about this? No one knows anything about the family share thing, I'm even sure MS was even going back and forth on a ton of shit. Which is why they never said anything "concrete" about the feature and you had so many separate things being said about the feature from MS themselves. They never demo'd it in real time and nothing was finalized other than calling it "family share". Nobody will know exactly what it was or is meant to be until they eventually implement. So all the positives and negatives about a system that never existed is completely pointless. That includes people "hating" on it and people now wishing MS continued with it.

Everything is PR bullshit until I see a fully functioning system in the hands of the consumer with "family share" enabled. Only then can people make up their minds if it's a positive or a negative. A feature like "family share" sounds absolutely great as a general concept but, the devil is always in the details with programs/features like that. Especially when it could've opened a huge can of worms if not implemented properly.


This is what happens when a company tip-toes with their information. If information is given out in snippets and general confusion as a whole, it will lead to masses of people trying to fill the void with whatever they find. Microsoft could have been more upfront with their information but instead they chose not to and this is the result.

Tell that to Sony, the fault with Microsoft is that they got off on a bad foot. So now everyone just assumes and accepts it's worse and worse. Sony has been just as vague about shit but no one assumes the worst or complains too much because they didn't start off bad.


"The fault of Microsoft is that they off on a bad foot"... lol, that is a pretty sad excuse and defense of Microsoft. I just love how the defense of Microsoft by people now seems to put the blame on the consumer base. Perhaps it is a distortion of reality or something but it is getting to be pretty sad.

The reason why they had a bad start was because they did an atrocious job of giving us information, they did an atrocious job of explaining that information, and they did an atrocious job of screwing over thousands of it tens-of-thousands of people with their new policy. This is not about people merely complaining, Microsoft was doing horribly when it comes to preorders in comparison to Sony. Like I have said before and will say now, this is entirely and wholeheartedly Microsoft's fault, period.

For myself, Sony answered pretty much all that was needed.

Are there schedule checks for internet every 24 or 1 hour (for other console)? No
Can I lend a friend a disc? Yes
Will the internet be required to play? No
Will it be region locked? No
Will PS+ transfer over to PS4? Yes
Will PS+ be needed to play multiplayer? Yes and no, depends on publisher.
Will PS+ be needed for other services such as Netflix? No

One of the main questions I wish could be answered though is... when will KH3 come out?
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-24 03:15:32
June 24 2013 03:13 GMT
#3664
On June 24 2013 10:01 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 09:38 semantics wrote:
On June 24 2013 09:36 Nilrem wrote:
On June 24 2013 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
On June 24 2013 05:57 woody60707 wrote:
So the whole rumour about the Timed demos on the family share was false. MS has generated so much hate over there XBone, people will believe anything bad about it now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


Can we please be honest about this? No one knows anything about the family share thing, I'm even sure MS was even going back and forth on a ton of shit. Which is why they never said anything "concrete" about the feature and you had so many separate things being said about the feature from MS themselves. They never demo'd it in real time and nothing was finalized other than calling it "family share". Nobody will know exactly what it was or is meant to be until they eventually implement. So all the positives and negatives about a system that never existed is completely pointless. That includes people "hating" on it and people now wishing MS continued with it.

Everything is PR bullshit until I see a fully functioning system in the hands of the consumer with "family share" enabled. Only then can people make up their minds if it's a positive or a negative. A feature like "family share" sounds absolutely great as a general concept but, the devil is always in the details with programs/features like that. Especially when it could've opened a huge can of worms if not implemented properly.


This is what happens when a company tip-toes with their information. If information is given out in snippets and general confusion as a whole, it will lead to masses of people trying to fill the void with whatever they find. Microsoft could have been more upfront with their information but instead they chose not to and this is the result.

Tell that to Sony, the fault with Microsoft is that they got off on a bad foot. So now everyone just assumes and accepts it's worse and worse. Sony has been just as vague about shit but no one assumes the worst or complains too much because they didn't start off bad.


Are there schedule checks for internet every 24 or 1 hour (for other console)? No


To be fair, afaik, Sony's stance is more: "the publisher will do what they want with online DRM". Which is pretty much the same as what we have now. But to me, for a console manufacturer, that's the best stance since it basically let the publisher deal with the problem since they are the ones concerned by DRM. And if consumers are unhappy, the blame goes to the publisher.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
June 24 2013 04:57 GMT
#3665
On June 24 2013 10:01 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 09:38 semantics wrote:
On June 24 2013 09:36 Nilrem wrote:
On June 24 2013 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
On June 24 2013 05:57 woody60707 wrote:
So the whole rumour about the Timed demos on the family share was false. MS has generated so much hate over there XBone, people will believe anything bad about it now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


Can we please be honest about this? No one knows anything about the family share thing, I'm even sure MS was even going back and forth on a ton of shit. Which is why they never said anything "concrete" about the feature and you had so many separate things being said about the feature from MS themselves. They never demo'd it in real time and nothing was finalized other than calling it "family share". Nobody will know exactly what it was or is meant to be until they eventually implement. So all the positives and negatives about a system that never existed is completely pointless. That includes people "hating" on it and people now wishing MS continued with it.

Everything is PR bullshit until I see a fully functioning system in the hands of the consumer with "family share" enabled. Only then can people make up their minds if it's a positive or a negative. A feature like "family share" sounds absolutely great as a general concept but, the devil is always in the details with programs/features like that. Especially when it could've opened a huge can of worms if not implemented properly.


This is what happens when a company tip-toes with their information. If information is given out in snippets and general confusion as a whole, it will lead to masses of people trying to fill the void with whatever they find. Microsoft could have been more upfront with their information but instead they chose not to and this is the result.

Tell that to Sony, the fault with Microsoft is that they got off on a bad foot. So now everyone just assumes and accepts it's worse and worse. Sony has been just as vague about shit but no one assumes the worst or complains too much because they didn't start off bad.


"The fault of Microsoft is that they off on a bad foot"... lol, that is a pretty sad excuse and defense of Microsoft. I just love how the defense of Microsoft by people now seems to put the blame on the consumer base. Perhaps it is a distortion of reality or something but it is getting to be pretty sad.

The reason why they had a bad start was because they did an atrocious job of giving us information, they did an atrocious job of explaining that information, and they did an atrocious job of screwing over thousands of it tens-of-thousands of people with their new policy. This is not about people merely complaining, Microsoft was doing horribly when it comes to preorders in comparison to Sony. Like I have said before and will say now, this is entirely and wholeheartedly Microsoft's fault, period.


Well the point is when given ambiguous information, inquire more about it instead of making the worst-case assumptions which a large number of very vocal people then, which then exacerbated the ambiguity beyond repair, prompting Microsoft to remove the features that could have also held some promise. I'm not justifying the behavior of Microsoft's failure to market the product since that was actually fucking bad, but again with understanding people it's more wait for things to settle down and clear, instead of jumping right to "Microsoft is screwing us in the ass."

Everything that Microsoft has done with the Xbox One has been justified, as I've been commenting on since the beginning of the reveal. There isn't really anything that doesn't have some possible logical reasoning behind it. Perhaps you're just not a fan of Kinect. Then okay, but there are potential use cases for it, as there is for SmartGlass, and used games restrictions. It's just that a huge number of people just didn't want to listen to it at the beginning, and in the last week or so, the actual "more-informed" opinions aren't being drowned out over and over again by the swarms of console gamers.

My biggest issue is that actually as consumers we act so entitled as to in some cases actually believe we know much better what to do than a multi-billion dollar company. For the most part, most of us all follow market trends. It is companies that try to predict and promote newer market trends in order to capitalize on that. I'm not advocating blind change, but when it's pretty clear that a lot of companies have this integration/motion development in mind, it's annoying to see people so resistant to the newer ideas. Not only that, it's also frustrating that as a consumer, when you don't like a product it ends up being a huge bashing party instead of accepting its flaws and moving on. Take a look at a lot of "Razer" haters and you see a similar pattern. When you're criticizing a product, you look at the mutual benefits and deficits of both and compare them based on that, but the vast majority of consumer attitudes towards the Xbox One since the reveal was not of criticism, but of ridicule, because as gamers we felt so entitled as to personally attack a product for not being exactly like we wanted it to be, instead of accepting it and moving on. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at this, but I'm only just realizing how deep this kind of behavior goes in many different areas and it's actually really frustrating, especially when there are some things about the product that you like, and other people drown out your thoughts in ridicule and contempt. Yes, it's a big product released by a big name and you would like them to get on a good vibe with consumers, but at the end of the day the amount of pure hatred for Microsoft is a bit baffling and frustrating to me (and Microsoft very likely).

This is the reasoning behind why "consumers are stupid", if that makes sense. People justifying their pure hatred and contempt by saying, "they deserve it". It's just... really?

/rant
There is no one like you in the universe.
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-24 05:51:04
June 24 2013 05:47 GMT
#3666
On June 24 2013 13:57 Blisse wrote:
Well the point is when given ambiguous information, inquire more about it instead of making the worst-case assumptions which a large number of very vocal people then, which then exacerbated the ambiguity beyond repair, prompting Microsoft to remove the features that could have also held some promise. I'm not justifying the behavior of Microsoft's failure to market the product since that was actually fucking bad, but again with understanding people it's more wait for things to settle down and clear, instead of jumping right to "Microsoft is screwing us in the ass."


+ Show Spoiler +
With Microsoft and what has been occurring, there is no 'inquire more'. It ends up being the case that one is simply not able to ask certain questions (which is often the case for mainstream media during events) or we are given generalized explanations to be written off as, to be answered later. I would also point out that although there were 'worst-case scenarios' being used, but also realistic scenarios as well. Although I will not go so far as to say the wording almost belittles the argument, but it does clump the arguments in such a manner to merely dismiss them. Which is what I have seen been happening for those that do try to defend Microsoft's decisions; there will be claims made or a certain side being painted in such a way that everyone is clumped together to invalidate their point.

As an example, what about those in the military? That is not the worst case scenario and is a real issue. Even a Navy magazine discussed the Box and its negative impact on servicemen and women. I am not saying you are using it in such a manner but it does come off as somewhat dismissive of those looking to what may very well happen. And this was not even about what for the full story, we already had the full information on the checking.


On June 24 2013 13:57 Blisse wrote:Everything that Microsoft has done with the Xbox One has been justified, as I've been commenting on since the beginning of the reveal. There isn't really anything that doesn't have some possible logical reasoning behind it. Perhaps you're just not a fan of Kinect. Then okay, but there are potential use cases for it, as there is for SmartGlass, and used games restrictions. It's just that a huge number of people just didn't want to listen to it at the beginning, and in the last week or so, the actual "more-informed" opinions aren't being drowned out over and over again by the swarms of console gamers.


+ Show Spoiler +
To be fair, pretty much any decision made by the company or companies in general have justifications for their actions. What matters is not that it is justified, but whether it is deemed a worth while investment. Do the positives outweigh the negatives; are the rights or abilities of the consumer being stripped to a degree worth the potential gain? These are the questions that have been asked and Microsoft has done a piss job of explaining them. The Box is a kinect bundle, sell us why that is a worth wild investment. The whole point of bringing up Tv was not the way to win people over. It is first and foremost a gaming console, prove to us why that is the case. And since they were in essentially a catch 22 with regard to the kinect and publishers making game with the kinect in mind, Microsoft had to force their hand and make it required.

Plus, it was not that people simply ignored what was being told. It was that Microsoft was too restrictive or reserved in explaining the matters. Their conference was an utter joke and it showed how potentially out of touch they are with the gaming community. I mean when will Microsoft learn that the whole scripted "cool" presentation is pathetic. Just look at killiner instinct, that was so much fail. The point is, the "well-informed" were not actually all that informed to begin with. I followed nearly every bit of news there could be, I followed the tweets, the interviews, etc. and even after all of that, it felt like near useless banter.

On June 24 2013 13:57 Blisse wrote:My biggest issue is that actually as consumers we act so entitled as to in some cases actually believe we know much better what to do than a multi-billion dollar company. For the most part, most of us all follow market trends. It is companies that try to predict and promote newer market trends in order to capitalize on that. I'm not advocating blind change, but when it's pretty clear that a lot of companies have this integration/motion development in mind, it's annoying to see people so resistant to the newer ideas. Not only that, it's also frustrating that as a consumer, when you don't like a product it ends up being a huge bashing party instead of accepting its flaws and moving on. Take a look at a lot of "Razer" haters and you see a similar pattern. When you're criticizing a product, you look at the mutual benefits and deficits of both and compare them based on that, but the vast majority of consumer attitudes towards the Xbox One since the reveal was not of criticism, but of ridicule, because as gamers we felt so entitled as to personally attack a product for not being exactly like we wanted it to be, instead of accepting it and moving on. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at this, but I'm only just realizing how deep this kind of behavior goes in many different areas and it's actually really frustrating, especially when there are some things about the product that you like, and other people drown out your thoughts in ridicule and contempt. Yes, it's a big product released by a big name and you would like them to get on a good vibe with consumers, but at the end of the day the amount of pure hatred for Microsoft is a bit baffling and frustrating to me (and Microsoft very likely).


+ Show Spoiler +
Entitlement with regard to consumerism is a difficult topic because although entitlement is thought of as rather negative, it is the consumer that pays for the product. It is not one or the other, more like entitlement to a degree but still limited. The one issue I do ahve with your comment is the resistance to new ideas. Not sure how much you pay attention to the general forums on the topic but from my end, people were happy with new changes. Playstation 4 to a degree was looked at as being too slow in their development for the future. But what happened is that there were issues with the types of changes. For example, the idea of family sharing and disc-less play was actually encouraged. Microsoft went about it in too restrictive of a way with the region locking, the non-lenient time-frame of their checks, even the way it was implemented. For example, why not the implementation of family sharing where one can use a disc or if sharing the library, then it requires the internet. But if simply playing on your own, the check is not required. Granted, there are probably 20 billion flaws with the idea but that is beside the point. What needs to be done is avoid restricting people completely and instead, they should give the consumers a choice. And not merely, "if no internet, buy the 360" which was a deplorable and disgusting comment. Instead, give people the choice of how to use their console.

The way Microsoft handled this whole debacle is absurd. They had a knee-jerk reaction and simply took everything away almost as if throwing a tantrum. What they should have done was sit down with the press (and not resort to a stupid blog post) and talk to people as gamers. Try to relate to us gamers, we do not bite (well sometimes we do). But sit down and tell us that they heard us, they want to appeal to all gamers and as inclusive as possible (and not their previous exclusive mindset). Tell us that gaming is important to them so they will be dropping the restrictions which due to the sheer change, it will mean eliminating the family sharing and digital aspect. But, reassure us that they will continue to work to give us the best experience possible and continue to work toward the future, for this was a mere stepping stone. Instead of what we got which was a, "we heard you, we reverse the policy and now have taken away all the other goodies".


I think the bottom line is this; the changes made were software controlled. What Microsoft needs to do is explain that although they have altered (avoid using reverse) their policies, they will continue to work on improvements to the system that will allow consumers to hold onto their control while increasing their choice. Swing it in such a manner that a large group of people will be pleased with the recent changes and they will work to appease those that are unhappy with the changes.

Oh and yes, I used spoiler tag on my post since they were long and I did not want this to take an entire page just to read.

Edit: Should point out that I do not disagree with you on everything Blisse. I mostly commented on the points I had issue with, but there were portions I agreed with.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-24 06:21:45
June 24 2013 06:02 GMT
#3667
On June 24 2013 13:57 Blisse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 10:01 Nilrem wrote:
On June 24 2013 09:38 semantics wrote:
On June 24 2013 09:36 Nilrem wrote:
On June 24 2013 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
On June 24 2013 05:57 woody60707 wrote:
So the whole rumour about the Timed demos on the family share was false. MS has generated so much hate over there XBone, people will believe anything bad about it now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


Can we please be honest about this? No one knows anything about the family share thing, I'm even sure MS was even going back and forth on a ton of shit. Which is why they never said anything "concrete" about the feature and you had so many separate things being said about the feature from MS themselves. They never demo'd it in real time and nothing was finalized other than calling it "family share". Nobody will know exactly what it was or is meant to be until they eventually implement. So all the positives and negatives about a system that never existed is completely pointless. That includes people "hating" on it and people now wishing MS continued with it.

Everything is PR bullshit until I see a fully functioning system in the hands of the consumer with "family share" enabled. Only then can people make up their minds if it's a positive or a negative. A feature like "family share" sounds absolutely great as a general concept but, the devil is always in the details with programs/features like that. Especially when it could've opened a huge can of worms if not implemented properly.


This is what happens when a company tip-toes with their information. If information is given out in snippets and general confusion as a whole, it will lead to masses of people trying to fill the void with whatever they find. Microsoft could have been more upfront with their information but instead they chose not to and this is the result.

Tell that to Sony, the fault with Microsoft is that they got off on a bad foot. So now everyone just assumes and accepts it's worse and worse. Sony has been just as vague about shit but no one assumes the worst or complains too much because they didn't start off bad.


"The fault of Microsoft is that they off on a bad foot"... lol, that is a pretty sad excuse and defense of Microsoft. I just love how the defense of Microsoft by people now seems to put the blame on the consumer base. Perhaps it is a distortion of reality or something but it is getting to be pretty sad.

The reason why they had a bad start was because they did an atrocious job of giving us information, they did an atrocious job of explaining that information, and they did an atrocious job of screwing over thousands of it tens-of-thousands of people with their new policy. This is not about people merely complaining, Microsoft was doing horribly when it comes to preorders in comparison to Sony. Like I have said before and will say now, this is entirely and wholeheartedly Microsoft's fault, period.


Well the point is when given ambiguous information, inquire more about it instead of making the worst-case assumptions which a large number of very vocal people then, which then exacerbated the ambiguity beyond repair, prompting Microsoft to remove the features that could have also held some promise. I'm not justifying the behavior of Microsoft's failure to market the product since that was actually fucking bad, but again with understanding people it's more wait for things to settle down and clear, instead of jumping right to "Microsoft is screwing us in the ass."

Everything that Microsoft has done with the Xbox One has been justified, as I've been commenting on since the beginning of the reveal. There isn't really anything that doesn't have some possible logical reasoning behind it. Perhaps you're just not a fan of Kinect. Then okay, but there are potential use cases for it, as there is for SmartGlass, and used games restrictions.

SmartGlass and extraneous features are certainly very subjective. People don't want to pay extra for things they aren't going to use.

"Used game restrictions", as you call it, is a whole different matter. That's actually DRM, and it has a lot of ramifications beyond used game sales. It also pushes new game sales, and game retail as a whole, into an entirely different direction that a lot of people don't like for reasons that go beyond the console. There are "uses" for SmartGlass, it's an interesting feature that isn't hurting anything. The "uses" of restricting customers from trading their products?? I'd say those uses are outweighed heavily by the amount of negatives. You don't buy games on Xbox On Demand by going through your local store, you go through whatever retailer MS tells you to go through.

Not to mention the multiple situations in which your console and all your games could be rendered offline and worthless. DRM.

Books, instruments, electronics, cars, furnishings, stuff -- almost everything I own I can resell if I want to. And people do it all the time, since the dawn of trade. What helps counter-act second-hand retail is making a product that people want to KEEP, and making it efficiently, following a plan of realistic sale-projections. This is how a business operates in a way that's healthy to itself and to its customers. MS often has the "better" and "justifiable" idea of simply ridding itself of competition -- in this case, the competition being the customers themselves.

With other digital products, where resale if mostly eliminated, you are at least dealing with the entire internet as a market, and not what "the console" gives you. Steam entered the market with a lot of customer protest for similar reasons. Steam was not a popular sell at first, as it was proliferating DRM heavily. Their customer base has been a long-term growth, as customers really did have to learn to trust the service and to actively see the benefits it provided. If Xbox One really was going to be the next Steam, in terms of all the benefits it was going to provide us, then maybe it shouldn't have tuck-tail and run at the first sign of trouble.

It's just that a huge number of people just didn't want to listen to it at the beginning, and in the last week or so, the actual "more-informed" opinions aren't being drowned out over and over again by the swarms of console gamers.

My biggest issue is that actually as consumers we act so entitled as to in some cases actually believe we know much better what to do than a multi-billion dollar company. For the most part, most of us all follow market trends. It is companies that try to predict and promote newer market trends in order to capitalize on that. I'm not advocating blind change, but when it's pretty clear that a lot of companies have this integration/motion development in mind, it's annoying to see people so resistant to the newer ideas. Not only that, it's also frustrating that as a consumer, when you don't like a product it ends up being a huge bashing party instead of accepting its flaws and moving on. Take a look at a lot of "Razer" haters and you see a similar pattern. When you're criticizing a product, you look at the mutual benefits and deficits of both and compare them based on that, but the vast majority of consumer attitudes towards the Xbox One since the reveal was not of criticism, but of ridicule, because as gamers we felt so entitled as to personally attack a product for not being exactly like we wanted it to be, instead of accepting it and moving on. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at this, but I'm only just realizing how deep this kind of behavior goes in many different areas and it's actually really frustrating, especially when there are some things about the product that you like, and other people drown out your thoughts in ridicule and contempt. Yes, it's a big product released by a big name and you would like them to get on a good vibe with consumers, but at the end of the day the amount of pure hatred for Microsoft is a bit baffling and frustrating to me (and Microsoft very likely).

This is the reasoning behind why "consumers are stupid", if that makes sense. People justifying their pure hatred and contempt by saying, "they deserve it". It's just... really?

/rant

Customers are entitled, and consumers are only as stupid as you think them to be. Is is stupid that I don't want a camera involved in my video-games?

And how does MS not deserve what it gets? It's a business, it isn't sentient or emotional. It isn't vindictiveness and malice that makes me not want to buy what they're selling despite my desires, I just don't want their product over their competition's, unlike last gen.

And if a would-be customer does decide to not buy an XB1 simply because they don't like the policies MS initially announced, that's not a "stupid consumer" either. That's actually being more thoughtful than the average consumer, that usually don't consider things like hidden costs, product liabilities, and promoting business ethics. The "stupid consumer" is the consumer that sees the pretty marketing display and opens his wallet immediately.
Big water
AnomalySC2
Profile Joined August 2012
United States2073 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-24 18:57:08
June 24 2013 16:57 GMT
#3668
http://www.gamespot.com/news/microsoft-investing-700-million-in-new-data-center-6410611

Guess where all the footage/audio/heart rate collection is going to be stored? I'm sure the NSA will use the kinect as well.

Also, sorry if this has been posted but it's very relevant

http://www.ibtimes.com/xbox-one-congressmen-introduce-we-are-watching-you-act-bill-targets-kinect-snooping-1311983
Lemstar
Profile Joined October 2010
United States387 Posts
June 24 2013 20:45 GMT
#3669
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7586-Why-PC-Gaming-Gets-Away-With-It
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
June 24 2013 21:30 GMT
#3670
I find it pretty funny that someone just said consumers are stupid to refuse to buy a product (XB1) but it's also widely used when people accept to buy a product (D3, CoD games, etc). Looks like to me it's just a cop-out to justify one's opinion over a majority.

And what does it mean for its stupidity when a corporation which only goal is to make money achieves to make its whole consumer base alienated ?

Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
June 25 2013 06:48 GMT
#3671
On June 25 2013 06:30 rezoacken wrote:

And what does it mean for its stupidity when a corporation which only goal is to make money and spy for it's biggest client, the US federal departments and agencies, achieves to make its whole consumer base alienated ?



Fixed that for you. Abetting a government to spy on its own citizens in a guilty-until-proven-innocent scheme is wrong but it's okay you have fish that react to your presence and K9 companion!
Cauterize the area
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
June 25 2013 13:03 GMT
#3672
Xbox 1 is still fucked isn't it? Not saying the PS4 is some sort of massive improvement, but everything about these consoles seem weak but Xbox takes the cake.

-Games 60 always
-Xbox live subscription
-Xbox 1 controller is still weak, but now you can use keyboard/mouse, so who will use a controller?
-Xbox 1 headset still weak at least I'll have a backup when my wire dies on my turtle
-Expense of a console when compared to an actual computer you could build
-Not able to trade digital media which makes sense for computer games, but for consoles it could be done

Then on top of that these game companies fucking over the consumer I really don't know what I will do when these release. Might be forced to go Xbox 1 to maintain same friends list though.
Mannerheim
Profile Joined April 2007
766 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 13:32:44
June 25 2013 13:31 GMT
#3673
My next gen console purchase will be determined by whichever gets the first tournament-worthy fighting game (so not Killer Instinct). Unless it's multiplatform, then I'll probably go PS4.
Rowrin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States280 Posts
June 25 2013 17:03 GMT
#3674
When I see the Xbox1, I see yet another disaster:

It is going to basically run a more Frankenstein version of windows 8 and for all purposes is a PC that has some special hardware/software that allows it to play games in the Xbox format. I mean, it is a PC with its OS modified to use a controller instead of mouse and keyboard.

What is it with Microsoft and wanting to make these monsters recently? At $500 this is a PC. I understand their wanting to compete with Sony and making it an entertainment system... but... uhg...
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
June 25 2013 17:30 GMT
#3675
On June 25 2013 22:31 Mannerheim wrote:
My next gen console purchase will be determined by whichever gets the first tournament-worthy fighting game (so not Killer Instinct). Unless it's multiplatform, then I'll probably go PS4.

Yeah but that's always weird, i mean most FG tournaments run xbox360's because that's what people use, but EVO due to sponsorship runs PS3. Can never win :\
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
June 25 2013 17:33 GMT
#3676
On June 26 2013 02:30 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2013 22:31 Mannerheim wrote:
My next gen console purchase will be determined by whichever gets the first tournament-worthy fighting game (so not Killer Instinct). Unless it's multiplatform, then I'll probably go PS4.

Yeah but that's always weird, i mean most FG tournaments run xbox360's because that's what people use, but EVO due to sponsorship runs PS3. Can never win :\


Why would you run a 360 over a PS3? Everyone uses those fighting pad controllers (so the 360's superior controller doesn't make a difference) and the PS3 is far more reliable.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
June 25 2013 17:34 GMT
#3677
Just saw where Fez 2 won't be available on Xbox One, via CNet.
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 18:10:32
June 25 2013 17:38 GMT
#3678
On June 26 2013 02:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:30 semantics wrote:
On June 25 2013 22:31 Mannerheim wrote:
My next gen console purchase will be determined by whichever gets the first tournament-worthy fighting game (so not Killer Instinct). Unless it's multiplatform, then I'll probably go PS4.

Yeah but that's always weird, i mean most FG tournaments run xbox360's because that's what people use, but EVO due to sponsorship runs PS3. Can never win :\


Why would you run a 360 over a PS3? Everyone uses those fighting pad controllers (so the 360's superior controller doesn't make a difference) and the PS3 is far more reliable.


Because the coding for many fighting games is far less smooth, especially for UMvC3 in which the PS3 version will drop commands or suffer from frames per seconds slowdown. A similar slowdown issue occurs in SSF4 AE. Just talk to any FGC guy and they will echo the same thing. It has nothing to do with the physical controllers themselves, as far as I've heard. This is a well known problem. The reason EVO uses a PS3 is because its sponsored by Sony, otherwise the majority of tourny's run on an Xbox.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 25 2013 21:51 GMT
#3679
It takes a few minutes for Wargaming's CEO Victor Kislyi to warm up, but once he gets into the flow of the interview - today we're discussing free-to-play World of Tanks for the Xbox 360 - he has to check himself on numerous occasions. The ink is just drying on a deal announced a couple of weeks ago, but it's clear from talking to Kislyi that Wargaming is taking the lead with this and will be giving Microsoft a crash course in the free-to-play business. Subtlety goes out of the window in a bid to get straight to the point.

"With Microsoft, unfortunately it's not 100 per cent free-to-play because it requires the Gold subscription to Xbox Live membership," explains Kislyi. "But that's a Microsoft requirement which is valid for us and for Activision and for EA and all other partners. They cannot drop it for us because they would have to drop it for everyone and it would be a total mess for them.

"This we have to tolerate, which I am not happy about. I would rather add another 30-40 million non-golden members and they will monetise occasionally," he says.

Wargaming moves very fast. Over the past 18 months it has more than doubled its size to 1600 members of staff. In August last year it bought engine maker BigWorld so it didn't have to wait around in a queue with the rest of the middleware clients. The company sets a target, puts its foot down and rolls forward on heavy tracks. But this move to console, and the barriers enforced by Microsoft, could put the brakes on Wargaming's console ambitions. Or at least slow it down enough to frustrate its vocal and animated CEO.

"Microsoft announced for Xbox One - thank God - they are moving to real currency. We will teach - excuse me - we will advise them on how to embrace, sometime in the future, different payment methods like SMS. Right now, it's only credit cards used to buy Microsoft Points which we know is suicide in free-to-play."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
June 25 2013 22:24 GMT
#3680
On June 26 2013 06:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
It takes a few minutes for Wargaming's CEO Victor Kislyi to warm up, but once he gets into the flow of the interview - today we're discussing free-to-play World of Tanks for the Xbox 360 - he has to check himself on numerous occasions. The ink is just drying on a deal announced a couple of weeks ago, but it's clear from talking to Kislyi that Wargaming is taking the lead with this and will be giving Microsoft a crash course in the free-to-play business. Subtlety goes out of the window in a bid to get straight to the point.

"With Microsoft, unfortunately it's not 100 per cent free-to-play because it requires the Gold subscription to Xbox Live membership," explains Kislyi. "But that's a Microsoft requirement which is valid for us and for Activision and for EA and all other partners. They cannot drop it for us because they would have to drop it for everyone and it would be a total mess for them.

"This we have to tolerate, which I am not happy about. I would rather add another 30-40 million non-golden members and they will monetise occasionally," he says.

Wargaming moves very fast. Over the past 18 months it has more than doubled its size to 1600 members of staff. In August last year it bought engine maker BigWorld so it didn't have to wait around in a queue with the rest of the middleware clients. The company sets a target, puts its foot down and rolls forward on heavy tracks. But this move to console, and the barriers enforced by Microsoft, could put the brakes on Wargaming's console ambitions. Or at least slow it down enough to frustrate its vocal and animated CEO.

"Microsoft announced for Xbox One - thank God - they are moving to real currency. We will teach - excuse me - we will advise them on how to embrace, sometime in the future, different payment methods like SMS. Right now, it's only credit cards used to buy Microsoft Points which we know is suicide in free-to-play."


Source


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