EPTOn June 15 2013 16:55 Vardant wrote:
![[image loading]](http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/56733/_1371234074.jpg)
That's excellent. Not even Microsoft use Win8.
The XBox Thread - Page 156
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Anonymous_Coward
United Kingdom1347 Posts
That's excellent. Not even Microsoft use Win8. | ||
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
This was at E3 ? | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
I like the PS4 but all this X1 hate circlejerk is quite hilarious. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On June 15 2013 17:05 Anonymous_Coward wrote: That's excellent. Not even Microsoft use Win8. Ouch. That was subtle. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On June 15 2013 16:33 maartendq wrote: http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-engineer-defends-xbox-one-drm-requirements-makes-valid-points/ http://www.wpcentral.com/lets-talk-xbox-drm I don't know if these articles have been posted yet, but they're pretty interesting. The first article is pretty bad. He keeps trying to compare DRM and Steam, and making the same fallacies that I've seen time and time again. "You love Steam, so we know you love DRM." Problem is that most people like Steam in spite of the DRM, not because of it. And Steam's prices don't come from DRM, they come from digital content delivery. Physical costs and shipping create overhead for every purchase, whereas bandwidth costs for a single download are very, very small in comparison. Yes, Valve takes a percentage and that adds to costs, but it's comparable to retail markup. Steam's model doesn't rely on limited resale, it relies on removing several middle-men that reduce net profits from the final sale. And more importantly, it relies on almost every single developer agreeing to digital delivery and acceptance of Steam's sales. Let's not forget, most developers are cross-platform. It sounds good when they say prices will be dropped...but do you really think companies are going to sell the XBoxOne version for less than the PS4 version? The rest of the article is just shifting of blame ("It's not our fault, entrenched businesses are forcing us") and double-speak from someone untrained at double-speak. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 15 2013 17:13 Caphe wrote: @Vardant: Every next-gen games(PS4 and X1) at E3 is running of a PC, thats nothing new. They run off dev kits on the PC. How do you think games from console are made? They are made by programming on PC/Mac. I like the PS4 but all this X1 hate circlejerk is quite hilarious. Yup my guess is that it's running off their dev kits probably because they have a ton of dev kits and not alot of xbox ones lying around. The reason why it runs windows 7 is likely the kits were made while windows 8 was in development and for something like a professional setting it's best to just use it on the os it was developed for then risk anything on one it was not. Btw you can usually find "dev kits" selling on ebay it's hard to tell which are real and which are fake. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 15 2013 18:01 semantics wrote: Yup my guess is that it's running off their dev kits probably because they have a ton of dev kits and not alot of xbox ones lying around. The reason why it runs windows 7 is likely the kits were made while windows 8 was in development and for something like a professional setting it's best to just use it on the os it was developed for then risk anything on one it was not. Btw you can usually find "dev kits" selling on ebay it's hard to tell which are real and which are fake. Well, the most questionable part is it supposedly has a 700 series Nvidia GPU. I haven't put in the effort to zoom in on the back but that's what people are saying from the printing or lights or something. First, that's a pretty big performance discrepancy between PC and the console and two, I doubt the devkits are using Nvidia GPUs. Then again if that's not true, ignore it. | ||
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
On June 15 2013 17:13 Caphe wrote: @Vardant: Every next-gen games(PS4 and X1) at E3 is running of a PC, thats nothing new. They run off dev kits on the PC. How do you think games from console are made? They are made by programming on PC/Mac. I like the PS4 but all this X1 hate circlejerk is quite hilarious. Have you ever seen an X1 devkit with a GTX 780? Cause there's no such thing. Zoom in on the last picture. Also, it seems to be watercooled. They were not using devkits, they were using regular PCs with much better HW. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On June 15 2013 18:21 Vardant wrote: Have you ever seen an X1 devkit with a GTX 780? Cause there's no such thing. Zoom in on the last picture. Also, it seems to be watercooled. They were not using devkits, they were using regular PCs with much better HW. Microsoft were using PC Nvidia GTX 780s to show their games during E3. The Xbox One’s GPU is comparable to a mid-range Radeon 7790. Heh. So basically they want to show games that look better than what the system is actually capable of. That was low M$. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On June 16 2013 01:07 FakeDeath wrote: Microsoft were using PC Nvidia GTX 780s to show their games during E3. The Xbox One’s GPU is comparable to a mid-range Radeon 7790. Heh. So basically they want to show games that look better than what the system is actually capable of. That was low M$. I'm just wondering what was Sony using for their E3 computers? I honestly feel like all of these people are jumping in on the 'fuck microsoft' bandwagons with these things without clearly showing me if Sony isn't doing the same thing either... Like I get that you want to bash Microsoft but at least tell me that Sony's computers were different? And I honestly feel Sony had the exact same plans as Microsoft regarding DRM before Microsoft completely bombed their reveal, so Sony decided to change their mind and make that "how to share your games video". It actually seemed like they wanted to jump on that train, which is good marketing (much better than Microsoft), but pretty annoying for Microsoft. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On June 16 2013 03:29 Blisse wrote: I'm just wondering what was Sony using for their E3 computers? I honestly feel like all of these people are jumping in on the 'fuck microsoft' bandwagons with these things without clearly showing me if Sony isn't doing the same thing either... Like I get that you want to bash Microsoft but at least tell me that Sony's computers were different? And I honestly feel Sony had the exact same plans as Microsoft regarding DRM before Microsoft completely bombed their reveal, so Sony decided to change their mind and make that "how to share your games video". It actually seemed like they wanted to jump on that train, which is good marketing (much better than Microsoft), but pretty annoying for Microsoft. All accounts I've seen is that the PS4 games were running on PS4 dev kits and there's written proof from febuary with Sony's general stance on used games and drm. Sure they probably discussed doing the same thing Microsoft is but to say it just because the negative pr is simply not true and not fair to Sony. | ||
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Nedereden
777 Posts
On June 16 2013 03:29 Blisse wrote: I'm just wondering what was Sony using for their E3 computers? I honestly feel like all of these people are jumping in on the 'fuck microsoft' bandwagons with these things without clearly showing me if Sony isn't doing the same thing either... Like I get that you want to bash Microsoft but at least tell me that Sony's computers were different? And I honestly feel Sony had the exact same plans as Microsoft regarding DRM before Microsoft completely bombed their reveal, so Sony decided to change their mind and make that "how to share your games video". It actually seemed like they wanted to jump on that train, which is good marketing (much better than Microsoft), but pretty annoying for Microsoft. Dont worry. A lotta kids watched their first E3 live and now are lovin the attention they get in the anti-Microsoft ciclejerk... A thinking man knows that all bets are off until the consoles are actually released. Plus that BF4 trailer just blew my pants off... so Im waiting with baited breath. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On June 16 2013 03:29 Blisse wrote: I'm just wondering what was Sony using for their E3 computers? I honestly feel like all of these people are jumping in on the 'fuck microsoft' bandwagons with these things without clearly showing me if Sony isn't doing the same thing either... Like I get that you want to bash Microsoft but at least tell me that Sony's computers were different? And I honestly feel Sony had the exact same plans as Microsoft regarding DRM before Microsoft completely bombed their reveal, so Sony decided to change their mind and make that "how to share your games video". It actually seemed like they wanted to jump on that train, which is good marketing (much better than Microsoft), but pretty annoying for Microsoft. http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/06/14/ps4-games-demoed-on-ps4-dev-kits-says-blow-xbox-one-games-spotted-running-on-pcs-with-nvidia-cards-bodes-ill-for-launch/ Here you go. PS4 game demos were run with PS4 dev kits. Even if that was true, then Sony played it right. But I doubt it was true. You don't just make last minute changes on press-conference regarding DRM. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-the-big-interview-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-ps4 They practically confirmed that No DRM/ and Used Game can be used. It is not a bandwagon. Microsoft is screwing with consumer rights and people are voicing out. What they have done, they deserved the heavy and harsh criticism. | ||
Sigrun
United States1654 Posts
On June 16 2013 03:29 Blisse wrote: I'm just wondering what was Sony using for their E3 computers? I honestly feel like all of these people are jumping in on the 'fuck microsoft' bandwagons with these things without clearly showing me if Sony isn't doing the same thing either... Like I get that you want to bash Microsoft but at least tell me that Sony's computers were different? I was at E3, and saw that there were PS4s displayed under a glass cabinet in front each PS4 game. Whether or not they were just there for show though is something I cannot verify. This does seem to suggest that these rumors are true though: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=576869 http://www.stfuandplay.com/story/content/microsoft-under-clocking-xbox-one-by-100-200mhz#.Ua6w90Cnzrw As far as I've heard, Microsoft was caught off guard by the PS4, so they are probably way behind on production. Combined with the problems they are rumored to be having, they were probably forced to use PCs with similar specs to have enough stations for the show. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On June 15 2013 17:54 WolfintheSheep wrote: The first article is pretty bad. He keeps trying to compare DRM and Steam, and making the same fallacies that I've seen time and time again. "You love Steam, so we know you love DRM." Problem is that most people like Steam in spite of the DRM, not because of it. And Steam's prices don't come from DRM, they come from digital content delivery. Physical costs and shipping create overhead for every purchase, whereas bandwidth costs for a single download are very, very small in comparison. Yes, Valve takes a percentage and that adds to costs, but it's comparable to retail markup. Steam's model doesn't rely on limited resale, it relies on removing several middle-men that reduce net profits from the final sale. And more importantly, it relies on almost every single developer agreeing to digital delivery and acceptance of Steam's sales. Let's not forget, most developers are cross-platform. It sounds good when they say prices will be dropped...but do you really think companies are going to sell the XBoxOne version for less than the PS4 version? The rest of the article is just shifting of blame ("It's not our fault, entrenched businesses are forcing us") and double-speak from someone untrained at double-speak. Conveniently ignored the second article COUGH. Not that I'm defending shit like needing the Internet connection to play games. http://www.geek.com/games/no-net-connection-no-half-life-2-for-you-557100/ Huh. Sorry, illiterate angry person rant over. People like Steam because they like liking shit and people hate Microsoft because they like hating shit. This happens all the time. Companies will try to adopt a similar strategy but because people hate the company they don't see it at all like that way (even though MS sucks at marketing here). The argument the Microsoft Engineer made was that used game sales raises the prices (and Gamestop), because Gamestop always gets the better end of the bargain since Used Game profits only go to them and not the developers. So the developers have to charge artificially higher in order to get the same amount of money. Suppose a game was bought for $60. Gamestop takes $30 and the developer gets $30, or something like that. Then Gamestop resells the used game for however much, over and over again, while the developer only ever gets $30. If you get rid of used games, or from what I see, the DRM system ensures that the developer always gets that $30 (or some other amount idk), for every time the game moves hands. This benefits the developer. Yes, there's transportation overhead, but you're really making that out to be way more than it is. You're looking at 200% price increases between Steam and Gamestop due to transportation? You're only kidding yourself dude. DRM on used games ensures developers get their share of the money instead of it all going to Gamestop. This is also the same reasoning behind why I don't get why Sony jumped ship on this concept (assuming they were going down that path in the first place). it is actually a really good model to ensure devs get more money (more restrictive DRM, lower game costs). | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On June 16 2013 03:45 FakeDeath wrote: http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/06/14/ps4-games-demoed-on-ps4-dev-kits-says-blow-xbox-one-games-spotted-running-on-pcs-with-nvidia-cards-bodes-ill-for-launch/ Here you go. PS4 game demos were run with PS4 dev kits. Even if that was true, then Sony played it right. But I doubt it was true. You don't just make last minute changes on press-conference regarding DRM. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-the-big-interview-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-ps4 They practically confirmed that No DRM/ and Used Game can be used. It is not a bandwagon. Microsoft is screwing with consumer rights and people are voicing out. What they have done, they deserved the heavy and harsh criticism. Yeah, that's all I was looking for. ^ is my response to the DRM. It is still a bandwagon though, you're kidding me if you don't think so lol. There are huge numbers of people who just hear all of this the first time and go, "DRM and no used games, fuck you microsoft". | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
A company spokesperson confirmed to Kotaku that Microsoft's own first-party Xbox One games will cost $59,99, the same price top Xbox 360 games have. And for PS4? Sony's U.S. boss of PlayStation business, Jack Tretton, implied in an interview last February that PS4 games would also peak at $60. Oddly, at E3 this past week, Sony reps declined to say what their PS4 games will cost. "I know the pricing," Sony's head of worldwide game development, Shuhei Yoshida, told me when we met to chat about PlayStation. He checked with his PR minder sitting near us and confirmed that, no, he was not permitted to officially tell me what that PS4 game pricing would be. Not yet. With only Microsoft currently committing to $60, could their rivals actually be targeting $70? That would only be as crazy as Microsoft differing from its rivals on, say, requiring online connections, so it's certainly possible. There's even precedent, primarily from Nintendo, for a platform-maker to sell its games at $10 less than the third-party game makers on the same platform. Nintendo used to sell its games at $50 while the Activisions, Ubisofts and EAs sold games at $60. Nintendo's been up at $60, however, for top Wii U console releases. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On June 16 2013 03:52 Blisse wrote: Conveniently ignored the second article COUGH. Not that I'm defending shit like needing the Internet connection to play games. http://www.geek.com/games/no-net-connection-no-half-life-2-for-you-557100/ Huh. Sorry, illiterate angry person rant over. People like Steam because they like liking shit and people hate Microsoft because they like hating shit. This happens all the time. Companies will try to adopt a similar strategy but because people hate the company they don't see it at all like that way (even though MS sucks at marketing here). The argument the Microsoft Engineer made was that used game sales raises the prices (and Gamestop), because Gamestop always gets the better end of the bargain since Used Game profits only go to them and not the developers. So the developers have to charge artificially higher in order to get the same amount of money. Suppose a game was bought for $60. Gamestop takes $30 and the developer gets $30, or something like that. Then Gamestop resells the used game for however much, over and over again, while the developer only ever gets $30. If you get rid of used games, or from what I see, the DRM system ensures that the developer always gets that $30 (or some other amount idk), for every time the game moves hands. This benefits the developer. Yes, there's transportation overhead, but you're really making that out to be way more than it is. You're looking at 200% price increases between Steam and Gamestop due to transportation? You're only kidding yourself dude. DRM on used games ensures developers get their share of the money instead of it all going to Gamestop. This is also the same reasoning behind why I don't get why Sony jumped ship on this concept (assuming they were going down that path in the first place). it is actually a really good model to ensure devs get more money (more restrictive DRM, lower game costs). It is a similar system just more restrictive and with less benefits. On Steam I can play offline as long as I want depending on the game, and I can use my account on any computer I want for as long as I want. Also I can buy games for cheap directly from Steam(friend/chat stuff with instant-join on games that support it, full account based game purchases/downloading, preloading, sales etc.) Xbone's DRM is something specifically added for what reasons exactly? Just for the sake of screwing with consumers? And Valve has a better track record on serving their consumers.. People trust that Valve won't screw them over. People don't have the same faith with Microsoft and for good reason. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
There's no definitive "right" answer there. Developers surely want the later since it would bring them more money, but customers have also the right to feel they own the copy and therefore can resell it like any other goods. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On June 16 2013 04:07 FakeDeath wrote: It is a similar system just more restrictive and with less benefits. On Steam I can play offline as long as I want depending on the game, and I can use my account on any computer I want for as long as I want. Also I can buy games for cheap directly from Steam(friend/chat stuff with instant-join on games that support it, full account based game purchases/downloading, preloading, sales etc.) ? you need to log in on your other computers in order to play the games, unless you install them already. In any case you need to log in at least once. Same thing with Steam, you need to log in at least once to authenticate before going offline. And similarly, you can't play any games if the Steam client is out of date, so you need to log in to update before you can play offline. Again, Xbox seems like it's moving in Steam's direction with how restrictive the DRM is, so it seems likely there will be better pricing on games. And full account based game purchases/downloading, preloading, sales are on the Xbox. Same with chat with the Skype integration, and friends with Xbox Live friends. Are you kidding me? Xbone's DRM is something specifically added for what reasons exactly? Just for the sake of screwing with consumers? Better for developers, probably lower prices by limiting used games? Did you not even read my post, or understand it? | ||
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